Stadium Expansion

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

The surrounding area cannot cope and would need investment. Car parking at a premium, surrounding roads choked, rail extension to Green Park????????

As attractive as the planned extension was it was a dead duck.

Was all in the original plans matey.

[Rex]

Yeah i know. As they are all linked it was more about the cost and investment needed from all parties. The club need to get supporters out of the area as safely and as timely as possible. At the moment even below capacity it is a struggle.

[SpaceCruiser]

Did I see something about Wolves submitting their plans for their own stadium expansion, despite them being stranded in the relegation zone. If they go down, will they still go ahead? Will Schards be saying "nay" at them too?

[Royal Lady]

Did I see something about Wolves submitting their plans for their own stadium expansion, despite them being stranded in the relegation zone. If they go down, will they still go ahead? Will Schards be saying "nay" at them too?

I doubt Schards gives a flying one what any other team decide to do with their ground/money.

[RoyalBlue]

Did I see something about Wolves submitting their plans for their own stadium expansion, despite them being stranded in the relegation zone. If they go down, will they still go ahead? Will Schards be saying "nay" at them too?

I suspect if Wolves go down they will invest well to push for a quick return and, as a consequence, their supporters will keep turning up rather than drifting away.

[roadrunner]

Phase one is scheduled to start with the demolition of the Stan Cullis Stand at the end of the forthcoming season, with a state-of-the art two-tier structure constructed that extends into the open corner of the Steve Bull Stand - starting a stadium bowl design.

Phase two will then see a new two-tier Steve Bull Stand built over the course of the 2012/13 and 2013/14 seasons in time for the start of 2014/15 - taking Molineux's capacity from 29,303 to 36,000. - Where I anticipate their expansion will end.

Phases three and four respectively, which are subject to supporter demand and not included in the £40m figure, would see the Jack Harris Stand regenerated to match the first two stands and take capacity to around 38,000. With early plans also drafted to possibly redevelop the Billy Wright Stand to take the figure up to 50,000.



50,000 is somewhat excessive. Wolves were relegated from the Premiership a couple of seasons ago and their attendances nose-dived. The ground holds 29,303 as it is, I would have thought 40,000 would have been a bold enough plan.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Infrastructure is a very valuable asset, once you have that infrastructure in place it could be useful for 50~100 years with moderate maintainance costs.

It also has a certain "penis-enlargement-factor", if you have the big stadium then that creates a certain buzz about the place, the club, everything, which creates optimism among the fans, and in some cases might help attract players to the club.

We have a small penis then!!

I have an email than can add 2", any help? Ladies only question as the club seems to be after the women at the mo.

[SpaceCruiser]

Did I see something about Wolves submitting their plans for their own stadium expansion, despite them being stranded in the relegation zone. If they go down, will they still go ahead? Will Schards be saying "nay" at them too?

I suspect if Wolves go down they will invest well to push for a quick return and, as a consequence, their supporters will keep turning up rather than drifting away.

I'm sorry, I disagree with you.

[under the tin]

It doesn't really matter if they push hard to get back up again, the end result is their infrastructure is dramatically improved for if/when they do go up again at some point later, which then in turn will leave them more cash for signing players and paying wages, if/when the situation arises that they are again in the Premier League.

It's really very simple: Improving infrastructure gives you a better chance of competing in top flight.

Compared to investing the same funds in player purchases and wages, investing in infrastructure seems the smartest thing to do for long termists.

Agreed. Arsenal didn't move away from Highbury on a whim.

[Schards#2]

It doesn't really matter if they push hard to get back up again, the end result is their infrastructure is dramatically improved for if/when they do go up again at some point later, which then in turn will leave them more cash for signing players and paying wages, if/when the situation arises that they are again in the Premier League.

It's really very simple: Improving infrastructure gives you a better chance of competing in top flight.

Compared to investing the same funds in player purchases and wages, investing in infrastructure seems the smartest thing to do for long termists.

This really is a massive and naive generalisation, surely it should be a question of looking at each case on its merits.

In the case of Arsenal (and Man Utd) significantly expanding the capacity made sense as their market research showed that they could sell the additional capacity so it was a good investment. There was also only a minimal possibility of their being relegated, or even falling short of Europe.

In the case of Reading, they had already made the quantum leap from dump to nice facilities, the expansion would have only given greater capacity. This, at a time when, despite the club being at an all time high, they were struggling to sell the existing capacity. Add to that the strong possibility of relegation at some point and expanding would have clearly been madness. It would have provided no benefit whatsoever other than 5,000 extra empty seats and added £15 million odd to the famous black hole.

As for Wolves, if they have evidence suggesting they can sell the extra capacity and they can afford it without the huge cost being a millstone around their neck, then it may be worthwhile, I have no idea if this is the case but would be surprised.

As for most clubs, if the ground is a tip then there is an argument for upgrading as this may attract fans who won't go to a toilet but will go to a new stadium. Otherwise, I would suggest, in most cases, it's better investing in players first rather than infrastructure otherwise you will end up with extra seats you can't fill and millions of pounds of debt you can't service.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

alternatively invest in players and fail to go up you can end up with less fans and a massive debt, cuts the same, getting the balance right is the trick, RFC are better at building infrastructure than buying better players for good money.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Not going to argue too much with Schards, except to make a couple of brief additional comments.

- In the cost model, you don't need to be able to fill the extra capacity 100% of the time to cost-justify it. The is a break point at a certain percentage of extra capacity, spread across the season, where it can still be justified, especially if you take a long-term view.
- If you're trying to develop support there are very good things that can be done with spare capacity to grow support (e.g partnerships with local schools) - these don't necessarily have a short-term payback, but may yield benefits in the longer term.

[Bandini]

- If you're trying to develop support there are very good things that can be done with spare capacity to grow support (e.g partnerships with local schools) - these don't necessarily have a short-term payback, but may yield benefits in the longer term.

Yep, that's the biggest shame about the decision not to expand. Reading desperately needs to make it affordable for younger people to attend.

[Wimb]

- If you're trying to develop support there are very good things that can be done with spare capacity to grow support (e.g partnerships with local schools) - these don't necessarily have a short-term payback, but may yield benefits in the longer term.

Yep, that's the biggest shame about the decision not to expand. Reading desperately needs to make it affordable for younger people to attend.

They already have that surplus available now, and I see they've taken further positive steps by reducing the cost of ST's for younger fans which is good news.

[ZacNaloen]

With the club selling something like 95% of maximum attendance every week we were in the premier league I think they saw that that was sufficient evidence that with extra capacity we'd be able to sell more tickets (if only just to larger travelling support/special offers for new comers)

As it was, there was no room for new comers as it was extremely difficult to get more than single seats (I know this as I wasn't a season ticket holder for financial reasons during the premier league years)

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Since the extension was due to be done in the summer after we went down, I wonder what take up would have been had they offerd ST to new folk during that season? and renewals, at a decent discount?

[ZacNaloen]

With the club selling something like 95% of maximum attendance every week we were in the premier league I think they saw that that was sufficient evidence that with extra capacity we'd be able to sell more tickets (if only just to larger travelling support/special offers for new comers)

I did the numbers in this thread earlier, and attendances were generally in the 99.7%~99.9% range. Away support was the only area with unsold tickets.
Except for a few matches, Wigan both years for example, where there was some additional unsold tickets.

And there you go, if you are hitting 99% of maximum for all but two fixtures it's pretty clear there is room for a profit generating expansion. If you stay up.

Which we didn't, which makes this whole thread a bit of a dinosaur anyway.

[ZacNaloen]

Set the ball rolling again certainly, the market is obviously there despite what Schards claims

[Royal Lady]

Considering we could only find 2800 fans bothered to go to Man City, surely this is yet more proof that an expansion would be a terrible idea.

[Wimb]

Considering we could only find 2800 fans bothered to go to Man City, surely this is yet more proof that an expansion would be a terrible idea.

Proof we should probably rebuild Elm Park