Long - time for a change?

[Woodcote Royal]

16 Graham Watford
15 Becchio Leeds
15 Bothroyd Cardiff
14 Long Reading <<<<<<<<<<<
14 Sinclair Swansea
14 Taarabt QPR
13 Holt Norwich
13 King Leicester
12 Gradel Leeds
12 Sharp Doncaster
11 Iwelumo Burnley
11 McGugan Nott'm Forest
11 Morison Millwall
11 Somma Leeds
10 Pitman Bristol City

League goals only. Totals can include goals scored for other teams in the same division.

What's wrong with the normal font size Snowpenis?

The short sighted pr*cks who infest this forum need all the help they can get.......................................

[Snowball]

Seriously, we are getting the team right.

Long-Hunt as the strike partnership, with Manset, Church, Williams et al backing up is pretty damn good for this league.

I find this quote astonishing. Church isn't Championship standard and has a shocking career goals per game record, Manset looks like a cart horse and Williams has only ever played non-league and reserve football, so how can you say "pretty damn good"?

We are weak upfront, FACT!!

Do you people ever think before posting?

Church 41 (33) 3,531 Minutes (the minute equivalent of 39 full games) for Reading and 16 Goals

Until very recently he was better than a goal every 180 minutes played

Long is averaging a goal every two games. Currently he's MILES better than that.

Hunt is on a goal AND an assist every 241 minutes. That's a very high ratio

[Snowball]

Which way is the perspective thread?

Long and Hunt, on last nights performances, are a decent pair at this level. Last night was probably their best game as a pair this season, if not ever (pretty much the same thing I guess).

Unfortunately we know all to well that Hunt is fragile and struggles with his fitness which prevents him playing week-in week-out or for 90 minutes of sustained effort and quality.

The backup players aren't good enough. That's pretty clear to see in Church's case and to expect too much from Manset let alone Williams is a bit naive. On top of that none of them appear to have that bit of guile or 'something different' which we'll need to call on at times when things aren't going our way.

We're short on quality and quantity up front for this season, we always have been. Next season we'll likely be in the same position once Long leaves.

Amazing. Church is horribly out of form but have people really forgotten
that he scored 12 goals last season, in 1470 minutes on the pitch, this his FIRST season at senior level

That's a goal every 122 minutes.

isn't this the same guy everybody was raving about, his movement etc?

[Hoop Blah]

Church did score at a reasonable rate last season, and people did rave about his movement etc. He's also not in the best of form at the moment.

All of that might be true but my opinion is that he just isn't good enough to be a 1st or 2nd choice forward at a Championship club pushing for promotion. If we're happy to sit around mid-table, then yeah, by all means he'll probably be a satisfactory squad player. Any more ambition than that and I'm afraid I don't think he cuts it.

[Snowball]

Church did score at a reasonable rate last season, and people did rave about his movement etc. He's also not in the best of form at the moment.

All of that might be true but my opinion is that he just isn't good enough to be a 1st or 2nd choice forward at a Championship club pushing for promotion. If we're happy to sit around mid-table, then yeah, by all means he'll probably be a satisfactory squad player. Any more ambition than that and I'm afraid I don't think he cuts it.

But that was what I said, Manset-Church-Williams as back-up to Hunt-Long...

And I suspect Church will eventually rediscover his form

[Woodcote Royal]

Church did score at a reasonable rate last season, and people did rave about his movement etc. He's also not in the best of form at the moment.

All of that might be true but my opinion is that he just isn't good enough to be a 1st or 2nd choice forward at a Championship club pushing for promotion. If we're happy to sit around mid-table, then yeah, by all means he'll probably be a satisfactory squad player. Any more ambition than that and I'm afraid I don't think he cuts it.

Isn't this all part of the same tedious revolving patten that has prompted endless posts about Long and Kebe, in particular?

Player out of form is lambasted, not to mention booed for just being on the team sheet and deemed "Not good enough for this level"

Player finds decent form and same fans start bricking it for fear he's is too good for us to keep.

Just where is this narrow level of ability to be found whereby a player is good enough for an ambitious championship side but not good enough to be snapped up by a Prem team? I would suggest it doesn't exist.

Fans need to be firstly patient with those who have a lot of potential despite the fact that they themselves can't see it and, secondly, to accept that challenging for promotion will involve some players who will end up playing in the top flight with or without us and will, therefore, be sold if we fail to go up.

This thread was started by someone bemoaning the fact that, in his eyes, Long wasn't good enough for this level yet now he's deemed too good to keep by a large section of the fanbase unless we gain promotion.

I'm fully expecting the same blinkered thinking to be applied to a very young Simon Church who has already played for Wales. In my view, and whatever his current form, any suggestion that he should off loaded as not good enough for the Championship or Premiership are several years premature.

[brendywendy]

great post.

[seahawk10]

great post.

Agreed, both Woodcote and Snowball have it right.

[Ian Royal]

Church is having a bad time of it, but personally I'd still back him as worth keeping around. Afterall, Long was promosing for a couple of seasons, then toss for another couple before coming good eventually. Church has something about him.

Manset's one of those who will either fly when he gets fit or will be gone and forgotten in 14 months time IMO. Williams, who knows. Hunt has a habit of scoring goals here and there, but I don't think he's really the answer to partner Long.

Long's done well enough this season definitely. But I think it would be a mistake for him to move on in the summer because if his move doesn't start well he could easily return to poor play and poor goalscoring and then disappear down the leagues. He'll obviously back himself, but I think he'd be best off taking an extra six months with us and showing he can do it over more than two thirds of one season.

[Snowball]

errr,he's already shown his quality over 13 months and scored 9 + 16 = 25 goals

by the end of this season he'll have shown his form for 1.5 seasons
and he's already on that 25 goals with 15 games still to play

[Jimbo]

Hunt has a habit of scoring goals here and there, but I don't think he's really the answer to partner Long.

Scored one, set up one.

Based on last night I would say Hunt is the perfect partner for Long.

[Ian Royal]

Hunt has a habit of scoring goals here and there, but I don't think he's really the answer to partner Long.

Scored one, set up one.

Based on last night I would say Hunt is the perfect partner for Long.

One game.

[Snowball]

Hunt has a habit of scoring goals here and there, but I don't think he's really the answer to partner Long.

Scored one, set up one.

Based on last night I would say Hunt is the perfect partner for Long.

One game.

TRY THIRTEEN GAMES.

When this pair have started (13 Games) one or the other has scored between them
no less than SIXTEEN times, that's a third of our total goals, just about.

they are so obviously the best strike partnership it's not really debatable

[RoyalMortimer]

We always used to get on longs back and hate him with a passion, but he is now a top notch player and we would be in a relegation scrap without him.

[Hoop Blah]

Church did score at a reasonable rate last season, and people did rave about his movement etc. He's also not in the best of form at the moment.

All of that might be true but my opinion is that he just isn't good enough to be a 1st or 2nd choice forward at a Championship club pushing for promotion. If we're happy to sit around mid-table, then yeah, by all means he'll probably be a satisfactory squad player. Any more ambition than that and I'm afraid I don't think he cuts it.

Isn't this all part of the same tedious revolving patten that has prompted endless posts about Long and Kebe, in particular?

Player out of form is lambasted, not to mention booed for just being on the team sheet and deemed "Not good enough for this level"

Player finds decent form and same fans start bricking it for fear he's is too good for us to keep.

Just where is this narrow level of ability to be found whereby a player is good enough for an ambitious championship side but not good enough to be snapped up by a Prem team? I would suggest it doesn't exist.

Fans need to be firstly patient with those who have a lot of potential despite the fact that they themselves can't see it and, secondly, to accept that challenging for promotion will involve some players who will end up playing in the top flight with or without us and will, therefore, be sold if we fail to go up.

This thread was started by someone bemoaning the fact that, in his eyes, Long wasn't good enough for this level yet now he's deemed too good to keep by a large section of the fanbase unless we gain promotion.

I'm fully expecting the same blinkered thinking to be applied to a very young Simon Church who has already played for Wales. In my view, and whatever his current form, any suggestion that he should off loaded as not good enough for the Championship or Premiership are several years premature.

I can't speak for anyone else, but having watched Church for abotu 5 years I can see a player that may do ok at this level as a bit part player or, at a push, a second forward alongside someone who is that bit special. I've prett much said that all along.

Nothing in his game stands out as either exceptional or poor. He's totally average. At this level I think you need a bit more about you than that.

As for this level you say doesn't exist. I'd argue that you have to be looking at players that have already had their chance higher up but haven't quite taken it. Players like Kitson, Nugent perhaps, Bent, Graham, Bothroyd, Chopra, Healy, Earnshaw or closer to home our McAnff or Griffin are all unlikley to get another chance of a Premiership move but are top end Championship players. It's about getting players like that in your side who bring the best out of those youngsters who might then make the jump up or become journeymen Championship players.

[brendywendy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but having watched Church for abotu 5 years I can see a player that may do ok at this level as a bit part player or, at a push, a second forward alongside someone who is that bit special. I've prett much said that all along.

given that in the last year or so the majority of supporters have believed jimmy kebe, shane long, sean cummings to all be not even good enough for park football, i wouldnt pay too much attention to what any of us say on the matter.

[Hoop Blah]

The world would be a very dull place without opinions brendy....

[Royal We]

The world would be a very dull place without opinions brendy....

I don't think so - but that's only my opinion.

[Snowball]

34 (02) 2,991 Minutes 17 Goals = 176 Minutes per Goal Shane Long*
17 (12) 1,534 Minutes 07 Goals = 219 Minutes per Goal Noel Hunt

14 (18) 1,420 Minutes 04 Goals = 355 Minutes per Goal Simon Church
30 (03) 2,698 Minutes 06 Goals = 450 Minutes per Goal Jimmy Kebe
31 (00) 2,716 Minutes 05 Goals = 543 Minutes per Goal Ian Harte



* One start 15 minutes, entered as a sub appearance

[Snowball]

17 Graham, Watford

16 Sinclair, Swansea

15 Long, Reading
15 Bothroyd, Cardiff
15 Taarabt, QPR
15 Becchio, Leeds