Chairman Backing

[brendywendy]

....before we went up he spent half of each season in the far east doing businessy stuff

You mean avoiding the taxman!

I've always maintained that Madejski's selling the club story hasn't really changed since the day he took over. If someone better comes along that he feels will take good care of the club he's recuilt and will return him the majority of the money he's ploughed into the club (and these days give him a well earned profit too) then he'll sell.

I don't blame him for wanting the right price, and I'm glad he seems to want to only sell to someone with the right intentions.

Where I think he's a little unrealistic is when he wants the club to be self sufficient. I think it's a noble cause and perhaps the correct thing to do in some ways, but if you want to be competitive I don't think it's achievable.

The change we're seeing now is the club running at breakeven or better whereas before we went up to the Premiership Madejski was realistic (and cash rich) enough to support us being competitive and happy to chase the dream of promotion like everyone else (to varying financial degrees).

We're now living in a different Madejski era where the bottom line rules over league position. In a market where everyone else is happy to invest and speculate to accumulate that means we're only ever going to be able to challenge for 5th-12th place if we have a good season.

i think the increase in profile of the club due to our premiere league outing means we can expect the quality of youngsters coming into the academy, and out of it to improve,and generally get more in terms of gates, shirt sales etc and that gives us a chance of becoming self sufficient, without dropping in quality too much more.
but its only a chance

[brendywendy]

We're now living in a different Madejski era where the bottom line rules over league position. In a market where everyone else is happy to invest and speculate to accumulate that means we're only ever going to be able to challenge for 5th-12th place if we have a good season

for reasons you mention when the league position starts to affect the bottom line he will act. like he did with rodgers, and probably will if ST sales for next year are slipping massively.

i also disagree with the statememt that good management will only get us as high as 5th without the investment.
i remember quite recently a team assembled for less than the price of the current one managed to walk the league with record points.

[Hoop Blah]

We're now living in a different Madejski era where the bottom line rules over league position. In a market where everyone else is happy to invest and speculate to accumulate that means we're only ever going to be able to challenge for 5th-12th place if we have a good season

for reasons you mention when the league position starts to affect the bottom line he will act. like he did with rodgers, and probably will if ST sales for next year are slipping massively.

i also disagree with the statememt that good management will only get us as high as 5th without the investment.
i remember quite recently a team assembled for less than the price of the current one managed to walk the league with record points.

I agree he may well react and change out of this current self financing practise, and RR, that would then be another era in my eyes (I don't think I said it couldn't change, just that as we are we'll be looking at 5th as a good finish). I'm not convinced that will be a quick change though.

In terms of how far good management can get us. We might get very lucky and Williams turns out to be the next Ian Wright or the Championships equivalent of Charlie Austin but that's pretty unlikely. If we do unearth a couple of gems who are good enough to carry an otherwise average bunch of Championship journeymen and youth products then I doubt we'll hold onto them long enough to build a team around them to challenge the top 4.

With teams getting relegated having even more parachute money, and teams like Forest, Cardiff, Swansea, Leeds and 'Boro all still around I think it will be going some to challenge higher than that.

[brendywendy]

now the wage bill has reduced, and will reduce further next year with the loss of fed/long id say well be breaking even, or even in small profit, and therefore wont be forced to sell any brilliant youngsters if we dont want to.

maybe

[Hoop Blah]

The wagebill roughly equates to quality though brendy. As we reduce the wagebill we also reduce the quality.

That not only makes it more difficult to win games, attract fans etc, but also to keep any decent products coming through because they want to progress their career and will ultimately realise that they can only do so much with Reading.

[brendywendy]

The wagebill roughly equates to quality though brendy. As we reduce the wagebill we also reduce the quality.

That not only makes it more difficult to win games, attract fans etc, but also to keep any decent products coming through because they want to progress their career and will ultimately realise that they can only do so much with Reading.

really?!

i doubt very much sig was on half what harper was on, and yet he was twice the player

[Hoop Blah]

The wagebill evens itself out though.

I'm sure Dirk can point you in the direction of the research that backs that up.

There will be the odd anomolies, but how many Sigurdssons have we had who could carry the team in over the last 20 years? Where is he now? Sigurdsson might not've really wanted to leave but most young players get their heads turned after a bit of success so it's very hard to keep them (look at the likes of John Bostock, Lee Martin, Chris Smalling, the lad Sterling at Liverpool, Ramsey, Walcott, the list is endless).

[brendywendy]

not once weve built ourselves into the greatest most successful club the world has ever seen, then well be the ones poaching all the best players from utd, real madrid barcelona and arsenal........

[Hoop Blah]

I don't want to piss on your fire brendy, but all of those clubs have lost players they didn't want to as well you know. We can't win!

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

we can't win, but we can sure draw easily.

[brendywendy]

I don't want to piss on your fire brendy, but all of those clubs have lost players they didn't want to as well you know. We can't win!

yeah, but im talking better and more successful than they have EVER been.
think the most amazing club ever, then quadruple it.
when that happens we'll be the only club anyone will ever want to move to.

[under the tin]

i think the increase in profile of the club due to our premiere league outing means we can expect the quality of youngsters coming into the academy, and out of it to improve,and generally get more in terms of gates, shirt sales etc and that gives us a chance of becoming self sufficient, without dropping in quality too much more.
but its only a chance

I believe that the profile of the club is a relative thing. Our profile has grown over the past decade, but it's still off the radar when compared to a Man United.
Similarly, our "pull" as a club in this region has grown at a time when most of the other clubs around us were in decline.
Donkey's years ago, we didn't get a sniff of too much bright young talent. These were hoovered up by the Southamptons and Palaces of our region. Whilst we are undoubtedly better placed to attract these players than we once were, it is also likely that a resurgent Southampton, a Brighton with a nice new stadium, and a Bournemouth, who are heading in the right direction will be challenging us for our position as top dogs in the region.

[under the tin]

for reasons you mention when the league position starts to affect the bottom line he will act. like he did with rodgers, and probably will if ST sales for next year are slipping massively.

This statement I agree with. Just like Rodgers, he will sack the manager, and do a "rally round the flag" interview in the local paper.
i also disagree with the statememt that good management will only get us as high as 5th without the investment.
i remember quite recently a team assembled for less than the price of the current one managed to walk the league with record points.

I don't think that there's that much in it. Murty, Convey, Kitson, Lita tec didn't cost peanuts, did they?
It also discounts all the investment put into the side in the previous years that got us up to championship level in the first place.
Forster, Butler, Rougier, Curo, etc.....

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

two seasons losing £6m, up to june 05 and up to Jun 06, followed by two in the Prem alledgedly profits of £6m each, tho later retracted, now a further loss attempting to return, 09, then a small profit of under £2m in 2010, luckily the Siggy money has been reinvested in this seasons attempt at a return to the top.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

for reasons you mention when the league position starts to affect the bottom line he will act. like he did with rodgers, and probably will if ST sales for next year are slipping massively.

This statement I agree with. Just like Rodgers, he will sack the manager, and do a "rally round the flag" interview in the local paper.
i also disagree with the statememt that good management will only get us as high as 5th without the investment.
i remember quite recently a team assembled for less than the price of the current one managed to walk the league with record points.

I don't think that there's that much in it. Murty, Convey, Kitson, Lita tec didn't cost peanuts, did they?
It also discounts all the investment put into the side in the previous years that got us up to championship level in the first place.
Forster, Butler, Rougier, Curo, etc.....

Add Sidwell and Harper to that list around £500K each. The diff between then and now is we were buying decent premier league reserves - now we are going for completely the other end of the market - eg an unfit pie eater (quote from Hereford fans site) from a side heading towards the conference and a window cleaner from a league 4 levels below us .

compare our Jan signings to some of the other top sides

[Wimb]

Sidwell was nowhere near Arsenal's side at the time and nor was Harper. Arsenal's academy 10 years ago was arguably no better then our academy is now, which is why we're seeing players like Karacan and Pearce come through. I think Karacan now is no worse and probably better then Harper was when he first signed for us.

[Ian Royal]

for reasons you mention when the league position starts to affect the bottom line he will act. like he did with rodgers, and probably will if ST sales for next year are slipping massively.

This statement I agree with. Just like Rodgers, he will sack the manager, and do a "rally round the flag" interview in the local paper.
i also disagree with the statememt that good management will only get us as high as 5th without the investment.
i remember quite recently a team assembled for less than the price of the current one managed to walk the league with record points.

I don't think that there's that much in it. Murty, Convey, Kitson, Lita tec didn't cost peanuts, did they?
It also discounts all the investment put into the side in the previous years that got us up to championship level in the first place.
Forster, Butler, Rougier, Curo, etc.....

Add Sidwell and Harper to that list around £500K each. The diff between then and now is we were buying decent premier league reserves - now we are going for completely the other end of the market - eg an unfit pie eater (quote from Hereford fans site) from a side heading towards the conference and a window cleaner from a league 4 levels below us .

compare our Jan signings to some of the other top sides

Kitson only cost us a total of about £350k after we got promoted, originally he was about £150k. That counts as peanuts. And I think you're pushing it trying to include players we'd had for more than 3 or 4 seasons already as well. You omit all the players we got for virtually nothing - Sonko, Ivar, Doyle, Long, Hahnemann, Little(?), Hunt, Makin, Oster etc etc.

Your whole post is just so wrong. For every Sidwell / Harper from the Premier League reserves we can match with a Khizanishvili, Griffin or Cummings. For every Manset, Morrison, Williams from the lower leagues we can match with a Shorey, Kitson or Doyle.

[Royal Rother]

Great point Ian. The memory and hindsight plays wonderful tricks on people's minds.

They believe that Shorey, Doyle, and Kitson, despite coming from lower leagues were always going to be stars, simply because they actually did. You can be absolutely certain the reactions from those same bods at the time was very very unenthusiastic.

Manset, Williams and Morrison of course could not possibly achieve the same heights as the aforementioned 3.

Therefore the club is going backwards, the Chairman lacks ambition blah blah fcuking blah.

[under the tin]

My contribution was a rebuttal for the assertion that the 106 team was assembled for less than the current one, no more.

I believe if I could be bothered to trawl through certain poster's contributions, some maintain that seasons should not be looked at in isolation, because there is a process of evolution taking place. Therefore, if a playing asset has been on the books for 3 or 4 years, it makes no difference as long as they are still part of the team that turns out today, so to speak.

Whilst it is laudable to point out the players we got in for buttons, it is a trick of memory and hindsight to suggest that "the Reading way" consists solely of picking up rough diamonds and polishing them.
If any of us were to sit down with a pint with JM, I have absolutely no doubt that he would able to tell us the exact amount of very serious money that has been spent on building the team over the last twenty years.

For me, it all boils down to a mixture of luck/chemistry/ the x factor, call it what you will.
Sometimes the cheap punts come up trumps, sometimes they're Bennett.
Sometimes the marquee signings justify the price tag, sometimes they're Emerse Fae.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Kitson had a decent record when he signed, albeit at lower leagues. Shorey was always for the future, we already had a LB at the time in Matt Robinson. Doyle was surely just a punt in the dark.