Chairman Backing

[Ian Royal]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

[Royalee]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

Lol, you really are a muppet - do you work for the club or something?

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

Would be interested to know how much they plan on raising to once the Apr deadline has passed...

Last time they went up was 06/07 & think mine was £525 then??

If my memory serves me correctly we've been around the £375-£400 range for quite a while - notable exception was £425 which was our rate the first season back down in the champ (08/09).

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

Obviously any business getting revenue earlier is better for them that goes without saying - but why the push for it so early given the business knows its customers are too battling a recession & also doing so in the middle of quite a bad run just seems like a way to get people's backs up more than anything.

They are effectively offering a settlement discount to customers - but WHY? Surely they are having cash flow issues?

[Ian Royal]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

Would be interested to know how much they plan on raising to once the Apr deadline has passed...

Last time they went up was 06/07 & think mine was £525 then??

If my memory serves me correctly we've been around the £375-£400 range for quite a while - notable exception was £425 which was our rate the first season back down in the champ (08/09).

So the only increase was for Premier League football and prices are about the same now as they were about 5 - 6 years ago. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me... I think it's reasonable to expect prices to go up every 5 years or so. Obviously how reasonable it is depends on how much they go up by. And there's obviously an argument that the starting point is too high, of course.

I'd say seeing this as an indication of cash flow problems is a bit of a paranoid leap personally, but obviously I can't tell you why the club is doing it with any certainty. Email them and ask, you probably won't get an answer, and if you do it'll bear only partial resemblence to the truth, but at least you'll be asking the right people.

[brendywendy]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

Lol, you really are a muppet - do you work for the club or something?

lol at you scraping the bottom of the shit come back barrel.

[Ian Royal]

Earlier it's in the better for the club. Sounds like a pretty good offer to get for this season's price by buying now given interest rates. When was the last time STs actually went up, and by how much anyway?

How much were they in comparison back in 04 or 05?

Lol, you really are a muppet - do you work for the club or something?

lol at you scraping the bottom of the shit come back barrel.

It's not an insult, muppets are great.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

So the only increase was for Premier League football and prices are about the same now as they were about 5 - 6 years ago. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me... I think it's reasonable to expect prices to go up every 5 years or so. Obviously how reasonable it is depends on how much they go up by. And there's obviously an argument that the starting point is too high, of course.

I'd say seeing this as an indication of cash flow problems is a bit of a paranoid leap personally, but obviously I can't tell you why the club is doing it with any certainty. Email them and ask, you probably won't get an answer, and if you do it'll bear only partial resemblence to the truth, but at least you'll be asking the right people.[/quote]

Can't see them admitting to cash flow issues somehow.....
I don't have an issue with the price but I do take issue with the timing which I think is most people's gripe TBF. Plus the team could be ripped apart in the summer which I think again people take issue with as they feel like they are committing their cash for an unknown product.

I'd happily pay a lot more if the club came out & said they are going to have a proper crack at going up again.

[Ian Royal]

That's the risk though isn't it... commit early knowing the club's rough position and potentially get a good deal, or wait to know what's going on and probably pay more.

The question to ask is, if we lose Long, Fed, Kebe & McAnuff (for example) in the summer, would that make you decide not get a ST? If it would then obviously you should wait and risk paying more. If you'd get one anyway, and I suspect the majority will renew based on whether they can afford the time and money to commit and still enjoying going every other week, rather than whether we're likely to be mid-table or relegation strugglers or promotion candidates.

[brendywendy]

yes.

Well lets hear it then..

off the top of my head, leeds, norwich, cardiff,qpr. All more, despite 2 having just come up from league 1,and 2 having the billionaire owners you seem to crave.
If you wanted higher prices maybe you lot shouldnt have bood him last time he came on the pitch. Cos its obviously affected his decision making since.
What you seem to complain about is that jm, a businessman, not giving 1-5 million a year away,and not really want it back. Doesnt sound like any businessman i know. Apart from abramovich, gates, and the apple dude. Just not that many of them about.imo of course. If you know of one that want to buy the club,then its your duty to inform the club. Quick.

[Ian Royal]

yes.

Well lets hear it then..

off the top of my head, leeds, norwich, cardiff,qpr. All more, despite 2 having just come up from league 1,and 2 having the billionaire owners you seem to crave.
If you wanted higher prices maybe you lot shouldnt have bood him last time he came on the pitch. Cos its obviously affected his decision making since.
What you seem to complain about is that jm, a businessman, not giving 1-5 million a year away,and not really want it back. Doesnt sound like any businessman i know. Apart from abramovich, gates, and the apple dude. Just not that many of them about.imo of course. If you know of one that want to buy the club,then its your duty to inform the club. Quick.

If I won big on the Euro millions (I'm talking £90m+ here) I'd probably try and put about £10m into the club. Wouldn't buy it though, even if I could afford it.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

That's the risk though isn't it... commit early knowing the club's rough position and potentially get a good deal, or wait to know what's going on and probably pay more.

The question to ask is, if we lose Long, Fed, Kebe & McAnuff (for example) in the summer, would that make you decide not get a ST? If it would then obviously you should wait and risk paying more. If you'd get one anyway, and I suspect the majority will renew based on whether they can afford the time and money to commit and still enjoying going every other week, rather than whether we're likely to be mid-table or relegation strugglers or promotion candidates.

TBH I will be renewing regardless this time around as I like going to football generally & like where I sit.

However....IMO the quality of the football is getting worse & if we did sell Long, Feds, McAnuff, Kebe etc & 'made do' with a load of not as good replacements, I really would struggle to justify renewing again.

Realistically we will get approx 60-65 points this season. My guess would be the quality of the product (without sounding snowball-like) will most likely drop at least 10% due to player sales so we're getting dangerously close to 50-55 pts....ala relegation.

The club just seems to have a real lack of direction & focus for me right now. There's only so many times you can 'buck the trend'. Quality will out.

Ultimately I will probably carry on supporting for the forseeable but still unhappy about the timing of the renewal - I think its wrong. My personal straw that would break the camel's back is if we drop to League 1. Should that happen I won't renew. Lets hope I am being overly dramatic & it doesn't happen but my guess is about 12-15th pace next season.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

yes.

Well lets hear it then..

off the top of my head, leeds, norwich, cardiff,qpr. All more, despite 2 having just come up from league 1,and 2 having the billionaire owners you seem to crave.
If you wanted higher prices maybe you lot shouldnt have bood him last time he came on the pitch. Cos its obviously affected his decision making since.
What you seem to complain about is that jm, a businessman, not giving 1-5 million a year away,and not really want it back. Doesnt sound like any businessman i know. Apart from abramovich, gates, and the apple dude. Just not that many of them about.imo of course. If you know of one that want to buy the club,then its your duty to inform the club. Quick.

I'm not saying he should fork out each time from his own pocket - far from it. There are a number of ways JM could source investment

1) What is the level of debt finance right now? If we are mainly equity financed then the club could take out a loan without putting the club at major financial risk.

2) He could issue some more shares - no cost to him whatsoever except losing a small stake of the club. He would still have a controlling interest.


For the record - don't say you lot with regards to booing. Most people did nothing of the sort so enough of the generalisations please.

[brendywendy]

2 excellent well reasoned posts. Apologies for lumping u in with the idiots.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

In a lot of businesses it is quite normal to source funding from loans. From an investors point of view it is often seen as lower risk if the right mix of finance is in place (i.e. some debt).

I hope the academy somehow produces 2-3 more Gylfi's so our annual 'black hole' is well & truly covered with some surplus leftover to boost the squad properly. I can't help feeling Gylfi was a one-off in terms of academy stars but I live in hope.

By the way - can someone provide links to the last set of published accounts? Yes I know this gets asked nearly every day!

[Ian Royal]

football clubs aren't likely to be seen as great loan material given how so many rack up masses of debt and then pay back a tiny percentage.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

football clubs aren't likely to be seen as great loan material given how so many rack up masses of debt and then pay back a tiny percentage.

Completely depends on the loan amount - as long as the loan interest can be comfortably serviced by earnings after tax then a club such as RFC should be fine....in my humble opinion.

If there's some accounts knocking around I could tell you pretty quickly!

Anyway regardless of that, if RFC did a share issue - even at a premium price then loads of fans would be straight in there....FACT. I certainly would. And it wouldn't be to make money it would be because we love the club & would want to have a stake holding in it regardless of how big it was.

[Royal Rother]

Loads of fans would be in there eh? Not a chance.

I reckon you'd get about 250 people putting in an average of £100.

And as for being good prospects for a bank loan - you just cannot be serious!

Have you been away from this planet for a couple of years or something?

[Ian Royal]

football clubs aren't likely to be seen as great loan material given how so many rack up masses of debt and then pay back a tiny percentage.

Completely depends on the loan amount - as long as the loan interest can be comfortably serviced by earnings after tax then a club such as RFC should be fine....in my humble opinion.

If there's some accounts knocking around I could tell you pretty quickly!

Anyway regardless of that, if RFC did a share issue - even at a premium price then loads of fans would be straight in there....FACT. I certainly would. And it wouldn't be to make money it would be because we love the club & would want to have a stake holding in it regardless of how big it was.

You do recall we recently had a large bank loan / overdraft facility recalled / removed by bank right?

[MmmMonsterMunch]

We had to pay back a £7.5 million overdraft IIRC.

Overdrafts always cost more than loan facilities though.

With regards to the planet I'm on - if a business is generating a profit & can cover interest payments then why are they bad candidates for a loan?

Depends on how much you borrow...

The club would have to go through the normal credit checks etc before approval.

The fact that JM broke the covenants on his station hill debt might have something to do with it though.....

If you look at our turnover & profit figures during the 2 premier league seasons then they are the best financial years this club has ever seen.

I am not saying lets go & do a Man City but if money was made available for 2 quality proven players that could push us up there, the rewards are there to be had. It's a calculated risk but one JM is unwilling to take even though it wouldn't cost him anything.