QPR points deduction?

[ZacNaloen]

They clearly did think a fine was enough - they didn't rule that in future cases points would get docked did they?

The tribunal was not about overruling the FA's decision so why would they?

They were making a ruling based on whether Sheffield UTD deserved compensation because they were relegated.

Please note, If west ham were given a points reduction sheffield utd would not have been relegated. This is important when considering the context of the ruling, and the amount they recieved in compensation (almost 1 whole season of premiership tv money iirc). It was clearly felt by the tribunal that Sheffield UTD were relegated unfairly. This ruling will be taken into account when considering future punishments for cases of a similary vein.


The difference here is that there was actually some subterfuge involved as well. It's actually an even more serious case than what West Ham did.

[ZacNaloen]

Given that the dodgy deal took place before this season even started, it would be nigh on impossible to suggest that it has had a direct impact on this seasons results as well.

Several of the charges relate to this season, he still played half this season as an ineligible player.

[moo]

I'm confused why they continued to play him now qpr are a big rival but I do feel for the fans, but considering the club have lied and provided falsoe documents I really hope an example is made and they start next season in league 1

[Ian Royal]

Maybe I've just invented it... But I have found these links to other cases not necessarily the same as not relating to ownership problems, but both involve points deductions. Hartlepool and our own dear Oxford. Can't guarantee they are real...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/07/hartlepool-appeal-points-deduction

http://football-banter.blogspot.com/2009/01/oxford-united-docked-5-points-for.html

[SpaceCruiser]

My dad seems to remember that Swindon got done for some sort of paperwork irregularities and were summarily relegated, despite having won the league.

Their issue was money but principle is the same, the paper work filed was fraudulent.

Swindon received a double relegation which was reduced to a single relegation on appeal.

I too remember this, hence why I keep referring to them as Swindles. Think this happened in 1990? When Lou Macari was their manager. But for some reason I keep thinking of Ossie Ardiles. Checking soccerbase, Ardiles was the manager after Macari....

[Super Royals]

I would jizz everywhere if they got points deducted so that they fall below us.

So would I

[MmmMonsterMunch]

You have your opinion I have mine....

I never suggested the tribunal was going to overturn the PL's decision. You stated earlier that the indepdendent tribunal ruled that points should have been docked - I've proved that wasn't the case & they ruled that they had "breached duty".

Given that this ineligible player will not result directly in a team's relegation (something the panel is more likely to be concerned with than a club missing out on promotion), I dont think points will be taken off.

Like I said the proof will be in the pudding. Don't get me wrong it will be funny as fcuk if it happens & I hope it does but I don't think it will.

[moo]

I would jizz everywhere if they got points deducted so that they fall below us.

So would I

Bukkaka instead of inflateable day at the final away game of the season????

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Maybe I've just invented it... But I have found these links to other cases not necessarily the same as not relating to ownership problems, but both involve points deductions. Hartlepool and our own dear Oxford. Can't guarantee they are real...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/07/hartlepool-appeal-points-deduction

http://football-banter.blogspot.com/2009/01/oxford-united-docked-5-points-for.html

I knew one had been docked 5 pts but couldn't remember who....

[Ian Royal]

You have your opinion I have mine....

I never suggested the tribunal was going to overturn the PL's decision. You stated earlier that the indepdendent tribunal ruled that points should have been docked - I've proved that wasn't the case & they ruled that they had "breached duty".

Given that this ineligible player will not result directly in a team's relegation (something the panel is more likely to be concerned with than a club missing out on promotion), I dont think points will be taken off.

Like I said the proof will be in the pudding. Don't get me wrong it will be funny as fcuk if it happens & I hope it does but I don't think it will.

No the point is the panel ruled that Sheff had lost out financiall because West Ham cheated. There is a valid view that that decision was that West Ham should have been docked points and as they weren't pay compensation, and there is a valid view that that decision is that had West Ham not fielded the ineligible player they would have been relegated and therefore have to pay compensation.

Relegation / promotion is immaterial in this, the point is material loss was established as a result of West Ham cheating (either through the actual cheating or the incorrect punishment being given) and therefore compensation must be made.

Which means if you can work out which games Faurlin was ineligible for this season, you can work out a) how many points they may have picked up because of it, b) whether they should be docked points

and use either or to build a case that their cheating has cost a club below them financially by preventing them from getting promoted.

[Super Royals]

I would jizz everywhere if they got points deducted so that they fall below us.

So would I

Bukkaka instead of inflateable day at the final away game of the season????

I'm up for it

[AndyRFC]

Fold the club to be fair, just give up and make them start again in the Shepherds Bush Minor League

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Fold the club to be fair, just give up and make them start again in the Shepherds Bush Minor League

I think that's the fairest solution of all. Ha ha.

[ZacNaloen]

You have your opinion I have mine....

I never suggested the tribunal was going to overturn the PL's decision. You stated earlier that the indepdendent tribunal ruled that points should have been docked - I've proved that wasn't the case & they ruled that they had "breached duty".

Given that this ineligible player will not result directly in a team's relegation (something the panel is more likely to be concerned with than a club missing out on promotion), I dont think points will be taken off.

Like I said the proof will be in the pudding. Don't get me wrong it will be funny as fcuk if it happens & I hope it does but I don't think it will.

I didn't say the tribunal ruled anything, no one knows what the actual ruling was it's a secret. All we know is that the Tribunal made west ham pay sheffield utd 30 million pounds. The pretty obvious implication of that is that the tribunal felt/deemed/decided/were sympathetic to the idea that west ham should have been relegated that season. I assume that means docked points. But as Ian says it could equally mean they felt that they not played Tevez they'd not have scored the goals that kept them up.


Any future decisions on what punishments to give out will take this ruling into account.

[PEARCEY]

My dad seems to remember that Swindon got done for some sort of paperwork irregularities and were summarily relegated, despite having won the league.

Their issue was money but principle is the same, the paper work filed was fraudulent.

Swindon received a double relegation which was reduced to a single relegation on appeal.

I too remember this, hence why I keep referring to them as Swindles. Think this happened in 1990? When Lou Macari was their manager. But for some reason I keep thinking of Ossie Ardiles. Checking soccerbase, Ardiles was the manager after Macari....

Yep. Pretty certain it was Macari. I remember thinking they had been hit for six. Double relegation...thats hard.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

What the FA / PL concluded is irrelevent, an independant tribunal concluded that there should have been a points reduction and sheffield utd should not have been relegated or West Ham wouldn't have been made to pay sheffield united compensation.


If the FA don't go with that tribunals findings for all future incidents they will open up a situation whereby there could be even more claims for compensation whether from the club that just missed out on promotion that feels they shouldn't have, or clubs relegated that feel they shouldn't have been.

You did actually say that BTW...

[ZacNaloen]

It's pretty clear that as the ruling is secret the bit about docked points is supposition

[SpaceCruiser]

I too remember this, hence why I keep referring to them as Swindles. Think this happened in 1990? When Lou Macari was their manager. But for some reason I keep thinking of Ossie Ardiles. Checking soccerbase, Ardiles was the manager after Macari....

Yep. Pretty certain it was Macari. I remember thinking they had been hit for six. Double relegation...thats hard.

But I do remember that Ardiles had led them to promotion to the top flight. I think it might have been that they were punished for the period when Macari was the manager and their cheating only had come to light when Ardiles led to promotion. Is this right?!?

[rhroyal]

Surely the Sheff Utd case should be used to justify a points deduction? I remember they concluded in that case that they would have deducted points if they had known everything at the time; hence £30m compensation.

This time they know enough up front. Deduct points and make an example.

[PEARCEY]

I too remember this, hence why I keep referring to them as Swindles. Think this happened in 1990? When Lou Macari was their manager. But for some reason I keep thinking of Ossie Ardiles. Checking soccerbase, Ardiles was the manager after Macari....

Yep. Pretty certain it was Macari. I remember thinking they had been hit for six. Double relegation...thats hard.

But I do remember that Ardiles had led them to promotion to the top flight. I think it might have been that they were punished for the period when Macari was the manager and their cheating only had come to light when Ardiles led to promotion. Is this right?!?

Yep. Seems spot on to me....but was it really that long ago?