The chicken and egg bit was because I was asserting that without confidence no amount of quality will make up for it, and you for some reason were saying that if they worked hard in training it would. That's what i was reading anyway.
Besides, I still think Long had it all and all he was missing was confidence.
Perspective
IMO it's elementary.
(a) He was 24 in January, 2-3 years off the peak years for strikers
(b) Despite all the bollox spoken on this thread, this season he has played almost as many minutes as in the previous 5 seasons combined. He needed pitch time.
(c) Most on this list know that though he is now 24, in footballing terms he's a kid, because he didn't play the sport as a youngster nor play in an Academy.
Maybe not a baby, now but a kid. For example check Church's total league starts and subs v Long.
This is why I believe we have not seen the best of Shane, and probably his best will be in the prem (maybe for us)
(a) He was 24 in January, 2-3 years off the peak years for strikers
(b) Despite all the bollox spoken on this thread, this season he has played almost as many minutes as in the previous 5 seasons combined. He needed pitch time.
(c) Most on this list know that though he is now 24, in footballing terms he's a kid, because he didn't play the sport as a youngster nor play in an Academy.
Maybe not a baby, now but a kid. For example check Church's total league starts and subs v Long.
This is why I believe we have not seen the best of Shane, and probably his best will be in the prem (maybe for us)
The I remember it the conversation was more about how you regain that confidence to regain your form and what triggered it, ie a magical epiphany which suddenly restores your confidence or through working hard to find the touch or couple of lucky moments in a game which gets you back on track.
No doubting the effect confidence has, although ability is far more important!
No doubting the effect confidence has, although ability is far more important!
Brian McDermott had 25 games last year and has had 42 this year.
P 25 12-06-07 45-30 GD 15 42 Points 1.68 Points Per Game
P 42 19-15-08 73-47 GD 26 72 Points 1.71 Points Per Game
Combined
League
P67 31-21-15 118-77 GD 41 1.70 ppg
46% win rate
P 25 12-06-07 45-30 GD 15 42 Points 1.68 Points Per Game
P 42 19-15-08 73-47 GD 26 72 Points 1.71 Points Per Game
Combined
League
P67 31-21-15 118-77 GD 41 1.70 ppg
46% win rate
Form over the final 15 games, with 15 Match Projection*
Now 11 of the 15 games played
* I do not mean that I think these runs will continue, but merely what happens IF they do
No optimism or pessimism, just projections based on form so far for the final 15 games of the season 10/15 played
Of course these are trends only. They don't take into consideration hard or easy games to come
If we beat Leeds or draw there, they may well be caught by Hull
93 QPR
82 Reading
82 Cardiff
81 Norwich
76 Swansea
70 Leeds
69 Hull (69-70)
67 Millwall (66-67)
63 Forest
63 Watford
Played 11 29 Points 2.64 ppg Reading DWDWWWWWWWW >>>> 39 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82 (Predicts 11 points from last 4, which is impossible)
Played 10 22 Points 2.20 ppg QPR..... DWWWLWWWLW >>>>> 33 Points from 15, Predicted. Finish on 93
Played 11 20 Points 1.82 ppg Cardiff LWWLLDDWWWW >>>> 27 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82
Played 11 20 Points 1.82 ppg Norwich DDWDWWDWLW >>> 27 Points from 15, Predicted, Finish on 81
Played 11 17 Points 1.55 ppg Swansea WWWLDLWLWDL >>>> 23 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 76
Played 11 18 Points 1.64 ppg Hull C.. DWLWLWDLWDW >>>> 24-25 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 69-70
Played 11 15 Points 1.36 ppg Millwall LLDLWWDWWDL >>>>> 20+ Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 66-67
Played 11 14 Points 1.27 ppg Leeds DDLWWDLWLLD >>> 19 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 70
Played 11 07 Points 0.65 ppg Forest DDDLLDLLLWL >>> 10 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 66
Now 11 of the 15 games played
* I do not mean that I think these runs will continue, but merely what happens IF they do
No optimism or pessimism, just projections based on form so far for the final 15 games of the season 10/15 played
Of course these are trends only. They don't take into consideration hard or easy games to come
If we beat Leeds or draw there, they may well be caught by Hull
93 QPR
82 Reading
82 Cardiff
81 Norwich
76 Swansea
70 Leeds
69 Hull (69-70)
67 Millwall (66-67)
63 Forest
63 Watford
Played 11 29 Points 2.64 ppg Reading DWDWWWWWWWW >>>> 39 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82 (Predicts 11 points from last 4, which is impossible)
Played 10 22 Points 2.20 ppg QPR..... DWWWLWWWLW >>>>> 33 Points from 15, Predicted. Finish on 93
Played 11 20 Points 1.82 ppg Cardiff LWWLLDDWWWW >>>> 27 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82
Played 11 20 Points 1.82 ppg Norwich DDWDWWDWLW >>> 27 Points from 15, Predicted, Finish on 81
Played 11 17 Points 1.55 ppg Swansea WWWLDLWLWDL >>>> 23 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 76
Played 11 18 Points 1.64 ppg Hull C.. DWLWLWDLWDW >>>> 24-25 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 69-70
Played 11 15 Points 1.36 ppg Millwall LLDLWWDWWDL >>>>> 20+ Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 66-67
Played 11 14 Points 1.27 ppg Leeds DDLWWDLWLLD >>> 19 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 70
Played 11 07 Points 0.65 ppg Forest DDDLLDLLLWL >>> 10 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 66
-
Harpers So Solid Crew
- Hob Nob Addict
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- Joined: 06 Jul 2004 08:39
- Location: enjoying the money
Royal LadyBacon Double Cheese I would open door 2 and expect to win the car.
And I expect you could do with it, after "sportscarg8".
ROFL/PMSL as well.
-
SouthDownsRoyal
-
Hob Nob Subscriber
- Posts: 11167
- Joined: 08 Dec 2005 12:48
Snowball Form over the final 15 games, with 15 Match Projection*
Now 11 of the 15 games played
* I do not mean that I think these runs will continue, but merely what happens IF they do
No optimism or pessimism, just projections based on form so far for the final 15 games of the season 10/15 played
Of course these are trends only. They don't take into consideration hard or easy games to come
If we beat Leeds or draw there, they may well be caught by Hull
93 QPR
82 Reading
82 Cardiff
81 Norwich
76 Swansea
70 Leeds
69 Hull (69-70)
67 Millwall (66-67)
63 Forest
63 Watford
Played 11 29 Points 2.64 ppg Reading DWDWWWWWWWW >>>> 39 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82 (Predicts 11 points from last 4, which is impossible)
Played 10 22 Points 2.20 ppg QPR..... DWWWLWWWLW >>>>> 33 Points from 15, Predicted. Finish on 93
Played 11 20 Points 1.82 ppg Cardiff LWWLLDDWWWW >>>> 27 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82
Played 11 20 Points 1.82 ppg Norwich DDWDWWDWLW >>> 27 Points from 15, Predicted, Finish on 81
Played 11 17 Points 1.55 ppg Swansea WWWLDLWLWDL >>>> 23 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 76
Played 11 18 Points 1.64 ppg Hull C.. DWLWLWDLWDW >>>> 24-25 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 69-70
Played 11 15 Points 1.36 ppg Millwall LLDLWWDWWDL >>>>> 20+ Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 66-67
Played 11 14 Points 1.27 ppg Leeds DDLWWDLWLLD >>> 19 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 70
Played 11 07 Points 0.65 ppg Forest DDDLLDLLLWL >>> 10 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 66
You need to get out more m9
SouthDowns. That update takes about a minute.
And I do all right at the getting out stakes, thanks.
And I do all right at the getting out stakes, thanks.
Back when we had 15 games to play, I thought 30 points (Championship winning form) would do it.
Played 11 29 Points 2.64 ppg Reading DWDWWWWWWWW >>>> 39 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82 (Predicts 11 points from last 4, which is impossible)
One point from our last four games and we've managed the thirty
Played 11 29 Points 2.64 ppg Reading DWDWWWWWWWW >>>> 39 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82 (Predicts 11 points from last 4, which is impossible)
One point from our last four games and we've managed the thirty
Snowball Back when we had 15 games to play, I thought 30 points (Championship winning form) would do it.
Played 11 29 Points 2.64 ppg Reading DWDWWWWWWWW >>>> 39 Points from 15 Predicted, Finish on 82 (Predicts 11 points from last 4, which is impossible)
One point from our last four games and we've managed the thirty
Tonight's draw at Leeds means we have managed to achieve (championship-winning form) 30 points from the 15 games even if we lost the next three
BRILLIANT!
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roadrunner
- Hob Nob Regular
- Posts: 3196
- Joined: 17 Aug 2010 22:50
Can't believe how many are moaning about the point away to Leeds.
10 games ago we thought we were headed for mid-table, but now after 8 wins in a row we get a hard earned point at Elland Road and our 25th point in 27.
Fcuking outstanding form!!
Not good enough for some still.
We have the play-offs to look forward too now. Win em or lose em, after more sales last summer this has been a successful season and I'm proud as punch of our bunch of battlers!
10 games ago we thought we were headed for mid-table, but now after 8 wins in a row we get a hard earned point at Elland Road and our 25th point in 27.
Fcuking outstanding form!!
Not good enough for some still.
We have the play-offs to look forward too now. Win em or lose em, after more sales last summer this has been a successful season and I'm proud as punch of our bunch of battlers!
12 Games of the last 15 with 3 to go.
DWDWWWWWWWWD
Absolutely brilliant!
Or should we say "Too Many Draws"?
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Harpers So Solid Crew
- Hob Nob Addict
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Not enough defeats, BM out.
In the dull and uninspiring category:
Portsmouth, Bristol City, Coventry, Boro, Barnsley - secure in their mid-table mediocrity before Easter. Meanwhile, in the promotion race...
How's that for perspective?
Portsmouth, Bristol City, Coventry, Boro, Barnsley - secure in their mid-table mediocrity before Easter. Meanwhile, in the promotion race...
How's that for perspective?
I stumbled on this.
On Statto.com you can have a table from any date.
Here is the league since Sept 25th
1 36 17 14 5 18 10 48 27 +21 65 1.81 ppg Queens Park Rangers
2 36 17 13 6 10 7 64 39 +25 64 1.78 ppg Reading
3 36 17 13 6 7 5 67 46 +21 64 1.78 ppg Norwich City
4 36 18 9 9 9 7 62 44 +18 63 1.75 ppg Cardiff City
5 36 17 8 11 16 8 49 34 +15 59 1.64 ppg Swansea City
6 36 16 10 10 12 6 52 41 +11 58 1.61 ppg Nottingham Forest
and since 28th August?
1 40 20 15 5 21 10 58 29 +29 75 1.88 ppg Queens Park Rangers
2 40 19 14 7 12 8 70 43 +27 71 1.77 ppg Reading
3 40 19 14 7 8 5 72 51 +21 71 1.77 ppg Norwich City
In other words, we slipped up Game 1 v Scunthorpe, then drew twice.
SINCE THEN WE HAVE BEEN SECOND BEST SIDE IN THIS LEAGUE
Since September 25th we have been bettered only by QPR, and that by a single point
On Statto.com you can have a table from any date.
Here is the league since Sept 25th
1 36 17 14 5 18 10 48 27 +21 65 1.81 ppg Queens Park Rangers
2 36 17 13 6 10 7 64 39 +25 64 1.78 ppg Reading
3 36 17 13 6 7 5 67 46 +21 64 1.78 ppg Norwich City
4 36 18 9 9 9 7 62 44 +18 63 1.75 ppg Cardiff City
5 36 17 8 11 16 8 49 34 +15 59 1.64 ppg Swansea City
6 36 16 10 10 12 6 52 41 +11 58 1.61 ppg Nottingham Forest
and since 28th August?
1 40 20 15 5 21 10 58 29 +29 75 1.88 ppg Queens Park Rangers
2 40 19 14 7 12 8 70 43 +27 71 1.77 ppg Reading
3 40 19 14 7 8 5 72 51 +21 71 1.77 ppg Norwich City
In other words, we slipped up Game 1 v Scunthorpe, then drew twice.
SINCE THEN WE HAVE BEEN SECOND BEST SIDE IN THIS LEAGUE
Since September 25th we have been bettered only by QPR, and that by a single point
With L-Wood playing we are averaging 2.16 points per game.
Had L-Wood played all 25 games and that average maintained we would have collected 54 points.
Since L-Wood joined, the best team other than Reading FC is Norwich who managed 50 from 25.
"L-Wood Games" we are fourth in the table but with either 4 or 5 games in hand on everybody else!
League Table since L-Wood joined (games where he played)
01 24 13 08 03 48-28 +20 47 1.96 ppg Norwich City
03 24 12 07 05 34-21 +13 43 1.84 ppg Queens Park Rangers
04 25 11 09 05 35-25 +10 42 1.68 ppg Hull City
05 19 11 08 00 40-20 +20 41 2.16 ppg Reading
05 25 11 08 06 39-23 +16 41 1.64 ppg Millwall
06 25 11 07 07 41-32 +09 40 1.60 ppg Cardiff City
07 25 12 04 09 35-36 -01 40 1.60 Burnley
08 25 11 06 08 37-31 +06 39 1.56 Nottingham Forest
09 23 10 05 08 34-25 +09 38 1.58 Swansea City
10 25 09 11 05 46-36 +10 38 1.52 Leeds United
11 25 10 08 07 42-32 +10 38 1.52 Watford
12 25 11 05 09 44-35 +09 38 1.52 Leicester City
13 25 09 09 07 43-40 +03 36 1.44 Middlesbrough
14 25 10 05 10 37-37 +00 35 1.40 Ipswich Town
15 25 10 04 11 36-34 +02 34 1.36 Bristol City
16 24 08 07 09 25-30 -05 31 1.29 Portsmouth
17 25 06 09 10 20-30 -10 27 1.08 Crystal Palace
18 25 06 08 11 26-31 -05 26 1.04 Coventry City
19 24 06 08 10 26-32 -06 26 1.04 Barnsley
20 25 05 10 10 27-37 -10 25 1.00 Preston North End
21 25 06 03 16 17-49 -32 21 0.84 Scunthorpe United
22 25 04 07 14 23-43 -20 19 0.76 Derby County
23 25 04 07 14 22-47 -25 19 0.76 Doncaster Rovers
24 24 04 03 17 22-46 -24 15 0.64 Sheffield United
Had L-Wood played all 25 games and that average maintained we would have collected 54 points.
Since L-Wood joined, the best team other than Reading FC is Norwich who managed 50 from 25.
"L-Wood Games" we are fourth in the table but with either 4 or 5 games in hand on everybody else!
League Table since L-Wood joined (games where he played)
01 24 13 08 03 48-28 +20 47 1.96 ppg Norwich City
03 24 12 07 05 34-21 +13 43 1.84 ppg Queens Park Rangers
04 25 11 09 05 35-25 +10 42 1.68 ppg Hull City
05 19 11 08 00 40-20 +20 41 2.16 ppg Reading
05 25 11 08 06 39-23 +16 41 1.64 ppg Millwall
06 25 11 07 07 41-32 +09 40 1.60 ppg Cardiff City
07 25 12 04 09 35-36 -01 40 1.60 Burnley
08 25 11 06 08 37-31 +06 39 1.56 Nottingham Forest
09 23 10 05 08 34-25 +09 38 1.58 Swansea City
10 25 09 11 05 46-36 +10 38 1.52 Leeds United
11 25 10 08 07 42-32 +10 38 1.52 Watford
12 25 11 05 09 44-35 +09 38 1.52 Leicester City
13 25 09 09 07 43-40 +03 36 1.44 Middlesbrough
14 25 10 05 10 37-37 +00 35 1.40 Ipswich Town
15 25 10 04 11 36-34 +02 34 1.36 Bristol City
16 24 08 07 09 25-30 -05 31 1.29 Portsmouth
17 25 06 09 10 20-30 -10 27 1.08 Crystal Palace
18 25 06 08 11 26-31 -05 26 1.04 Coventry City
19 24 06 08 10 26-32 -06 26 1.04 Barnsley
20 25 05 10 10 27-37 -10 25 1.00 Preston North End
21 25 06 03 16 17-49 -32 21 0.84 Scunthorpe United
22 25 04 07 14 23-43 -20 19 0.76 Derby County
23 25 04 07 14 22-47 -25 19 0.76 Doncaster Rovers
24 24 04 03 17 22-46 -24 15 0.64 Sheffield United
Table Since Elwood joined (including the games where he did not play)
Better than QPR, Cardiff, Swansea, Leeds, Hull, Millwall
1 25 14 8 3 50-29 +21 50 2.00 ppg Norwich
2 25 13 9 3 45-25 +20 48 1.92 ppg Reading
3 25 13 7 5 34-21 +13 46 1.84 ppg QPR
4 25 11 9 5 35-25 +10 42 1.68 ppg Hull
5 25 11 8 6 39-23 +16 41 1.64 ppg Millwall
6 25 11 7 7 41-32 +09 40 1.60 ppg Cardiff
Games Elwood didn't play
H 0-1 QPR
A 1-2 Norwich
A 0-1 Swansea
A 1-1 Sheffield
A 1-0 Barnsley
H 2-0 Portsmouth
P6 W2 D1 L3 5-5 1.167 ppg
Better than QPR, Cardiff, Swansea, Leeds, Hull, Millwall
1 25 14 8 3 50-29 +21 50 2.00 ppg Norwich
2 25 13 9 3 45-25 +20 48 1.92 ppg Reading
3 25 13 7 5 34-21 +13 46 1.84 ppg QPR
4 25 11 9 5 35-25 +10 42 1.68 ppg Hull
5 25 11 8 6 39-23 +16 41 1.64 ppg Millwall
6 25 11 7 7 41-32 +09 40 1.60 ppg Cardiff
Games Elwood didn't play
H 0-1 QPR
A 1-2 Norwich
A 0-1 Swansea
A 1-1 Sheffield
A 1-0 Barnsley
H 2-0 Portsmouth
P6 W2 D1 L3 5-5 1.167 ppg
Last half a season (23 games) we are first. Remaining games against 24th, 21st and 22nd in the last half-season.
Arch Last half a season (23 games) we are first. Remaining games against 24th, 21st and 22nd in the last half-season.
EXACTLY. Though my gut says QPR-Norwich-Cardiff are all a tiny bit better than us
our 23-Game form speaks for itself. THE best (and improving!)
Ian Royalweybridgewanderer i am sure I have heard this "easier run in" stuff before
It's fair enough to expect results to dip in a period you play three of the best 4 or 5 teams in the division in quick sucession. I can't see us getting a good enough run to get in the play offs, but providing we don't let our confidence and effort disappear we should certainly pick up a few more wins.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a late lurch for the play offs that falls short with a couple of games to go.
Just curious, if we aren't making the POs, isn't that "mid-table"?
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