QPR points deduction?

[CholseyRoyal]

Swindon?

Completely different set of offences.

I was referring to precedent for the punishment

I agree with you SF, neat solution though would there be a second team automatically promoted and if that were the third team then presumably the seventh would make the playoffs?

[ZacNaloen]

No because only two teams are demoted it means only one team automatically goes up from the Championship

basically same thing that happened when the prem reduced it's numbers when we finished second in that fateful season.

[Royal Rother]

He's suggesting 1 team auto promo, play offs still 3,4,5,&6, with just 2 teams relegated from PL. Which seems eminently sensible.

edit: oh right, as just said...

[ZacNaloen]

equally the prem could refuse them entry

[Terminal Boardom]

equally the prem could refuse them entry

In which case 80% of clubs in the PL should be demoted for all sorts of finacial irregularities and shenanigans

[Svlad Cjelli]

FA and Football League face fixture meltdown
Apr 24 2011 by Dave Kidd, The People
THE FA and Football League are facing a fixture meltdown if QPR are hit with a deduction of 10 to 15 points.

An independent commission will rule on the Alejandro Faurlin case on May 6, the day before the final round of Championship matches.

Should Rangers fall out of the top two and into the play-off spots they would have until May 20 to appeal, with both legs of the play-off semi-finals due to be played before that date.

The Football League would then have to decide whether to delay the entire play-off programme until after any appeal, or whether they would force QPR to play in the play-offs, knowing the London club could refuse to take part.

If they keep to the original schedule, Rangers could either have been knocked out in a semi-final or be awaiting a Wembley date on May 30 by the time an appeal is heard.

The third-placed club could also bring legal action if QPR are not hit with a points deduction and bank £90million by winning promotion.

Plus a couple of useful QPR web threads :

http://qprreport.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=21939#ixzz1KdLcSo5Y
http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?s=2170fa123eec450cb24cc0435c57611c&t=97729&page=8

[daveb76]

QPR fan here, finding this thread bizarre, 38 pages and counting on this, I'd have thought you would care more about your own team.

Anyway how have QPR cheated? Some people seem to be suggesting that Faurlin is not eligible to play, none of the charges are about playing an ineligible player so I'm not sure where you are coming from with that. Comparisons to the Swindon case and even the Tevez one make no sense either as they are different charges. It's like comparing Rooneys two game ban for swearing to Rio ferdinands drugs ban.

The player in question was signed in 2009 before the new rules came into play, in fact the football league still don't have any rules about third party ownership. If we cheated then we did so last season as well when we were crap so we didn't gain any advantage. Faurlin has always been eligible to play, that's never been in doubt the problem is over whether QPR knew the player was owned by a third party and how we went about changing that when he signed a new contract. The FA are saying we messed it up but Rangers reckon everything is above board. It all sounds like a paperwork error, even the agent which was unlicensed was actually registered by FIFA at the time so to take points or promotion away would appear to be very harsh. If the punishment for this is effectively a £90million fine and relegation then it will be interesting to see how they work that out should a club not top of the league are charged with the same offence.Would they fine Shrewsbury £90million should they commit the same offence and effectively kill them, would be a very dangerous move by the FA.

If we are guilty the punishment should fit the crime and the league table shouldn't be taken into account, you can't say well QPR are 6 points clear so we'll take 9 off them but if Sheffield United do the same they are bottom so we'll just take 3 off them. Should be the same for everyone. How anyone can be deducted points for this offence is beyond me as it's had no impact on any match this season.

I find the whole third party thing a joke anyway, it's not illegal in any other country and even in England you can have third party owned players. Just look at Mikele Leigterwood, owned by QPR but playing for Reading which helps both clubs out especially QPR when Leigterwood couldn't play against us and when you take points off our rivals, I don't think you've lost any games he's played in have you? The way the loan system works in this country means that clubs who loan players out are able to have an effect on other clubs matches, Man Utd do it all the time loaning good keepers out to stop other teams winning then when they face them they play against an old fella or a rookie in goal and walk off with an easy win.

For anyone to say they would walk away from football if QPR are not robbed of promotion over this is laughable, it's supposed to be a sport, where at the end of the season the best side over 46 games wins the league, the true farce would be if they make the Norwich or Cardiff champions over a technicality.Like it or not we've been the best side this season and if we finish with the most points we will deserve to go up as champions. Good luck in the playoffs.

[brendywendy]

tbf the vast majority of posts on the forum are about reading.

its quite newsworthy, and something alot of football fans will be talking about and discussing though.


i would say that any malice or mirth at any possible points deduction would be all down to your manager than your club though, if that makes it any less hard to read.

[Silver Fox]

'greed Brendo, in exactly the same way that I wasn't overly bothered about the chaces of relegating Sheff u yesterday without him at the helm, looking forward to him being replaced with a big name in the summer

I find the whole third party thing a joke anyway, it's not illegal in any other country and even in England you can have third party owned players. Just look at Mikele Leigterwood, owned by QPR but playing for Reading which helps both clubs out especially QPR when Leigterwood couldn't play against us and when you take points off our rivals, I don't think you've lost any games he's played in have you? The way the loan system works in this country means that clubs who loan players out are able to have an effect on other clubs matches, Man Utd do it all the time loaning good keepers out to stop other teams winning then when they face them they play against an old fella or a rookie in goal and walk off with an easy win.

Valid point on the loan system

[Shaka]

Seeing as QPR weren't promoted yesterday, will they get a fine/points deduction for their fans running on to the pitch?

[brendywendy]

tbf im happy simply to have seen those idiots all on the pitch, then have to traipse slowly back off it when norwich scored.


if they dont get points docked,then ill already have got my laughs out of QPR this season.

[daveb76]

no one walked off as soon as Norwich scored, 6 clear of 3rd with 2 to play it's as good as over anyway so was worth celebrating

[TFF]

no one walked off as soon as Norwich scored, 6 clear of 3rd with 2 to play it's as good as over anyway so was worth celebrating

celebr8ing

If you're going to play on our board at least follow the rules.

FON

[Mr Angry]

QPR fan here, finding this thread bizarre, 38 pages and counting on this, I'd have thought you would care more about your own team.

Anyway how have QPR cheated? Some people seem to be suggesting that Faurlin is not eligible to play, none of the charges are about playing an ineligible player so I'm not sure where you are coming from with that. Comparisons to the Swindon case and even the Tevez one make no sense either as they are different charges. It's like comparing Rooneys two game ban for swearing to Rio ferdinands drugs ban.

The player in question was signed in 2009 before the new rules came into play, in fact the football league still don't have any rules about third party ownership. If we cheated then we did so last season as well when we were crap so we didn't gain any advantage. Faurlin has always been eligible to play, that's never been in doubt the problem is over whether QPR knew the player was owned by a third party and how we went about changing that when he signed a new contract. The FA are saying we messed it up but Rangers reckon everything is above board. It all sounds like a paperwork error, even the agent which was unlicensed was actually registered by FIFA at the time so to take points or promotion away would appear to be very harsh. If the punishment for this is effectively a £90million fine and relegation then it will be interesting to see how they work that out should a club not top of the league are charged with the same offence.Would they fine Shrewsbury £90million should they commit the same offence and effectively kill them, would be a very dangerous move by the FA.

If we are guilty the punishment should fit the crime and the league table shouldn't be taken into account, you can't say well QPR are 6 points clear so we'll take 9 off them but if Sheffield United do the same they are bottom so we'll just take 3 off them. Should be the same for everyone. How anyone can be deducted points for this offence is beyond me as it's had no impact on any match this season.

I find the whole third party thing a joke anyway, it's not illegal in any other country and even in England you can have third party owned players. Just look at Mikele Leigterwood, owned by QPR but playing for Reading which helps both clubs out especially QPR when Leigterwood couldn't play against us and when you take points off our rivals, I don't think you've lost any games he's played in have you? The way the loan system works in this country means that clubs who loan players out are able to have an effect on other clubs matches, Man Utd do it all the time loaning good keepers out to stop other teams winning then when they face them they play against an old fella or a rookie in goal and walk off with an easy win.

For anyone to say they would walk away from football if QPR are not robbed of promotion over this is laughable, it's supposed to be a sport, where at the end of the season the best side over 46 games wins the league, the true farce would be if they make the Norwich or Cardiff champions over a technicality.Like it or not we've been the best side this season and if we finish with the most points we will deserve to go up as champions. Good luck in the playoffs.

Firstly, welcome to our board.

Thanks for clearing that all up by the way; now we know that QPR haven't broken any rules, the hearing on May 3rd will last 20 minutes or so, won't it??

Won't it???

Maybe not.

Which would suggest that the FA feel that QPR may well have broken some rules; we shall see.

If QPR are found guilty, then they should be punished. Or don't you think that a team caught breaking rules SHOULD be punished?? Cool - lets ALL go and do dodgy deals all over the place then!!

Nah - on second thoughts, we won't; we would rather build a team the proper way. Leave the dodginess to owners who have a "track" record (Geddit?? See what I did there??) of doing dodgy things.

I - like many other football fans of different clubs up and down the country - suspect that the FA have scheduled your hearing when they have, to basically bottle a proper punishment; therefore, congratulations on your promotion.

Do come back and tell us how wonderful it all is, won't you???

[roadrunner]

no one walked off as soon as Norwich scored, 6 clear of 3rd with 2 to play it's as good as over anyway so was worth celebrating

celebr8ing

If you're going to play on our board at least follow the rules.

FON

[facaldaqui]

QPR fan here, finding this thread bizarre, 38 pages and counting on this, I'd have thought you would care more about your own team.

Anyway how have QPR cheated? Some people seem to be suggesting that Faurlin is not eligible to play, none of the charges are about playing an ineligible player so I'm not sure where you are coming from with that. Comparisons to the Swindon case and even the Tevez one make no sense either as they are different charges. It's like comparing Rooneys two game ban for swearing to Rio ferdinands drugs ban.

The player in question was signed in 2009 before the new rules came into play, in fact the football league still don't have any rules about third party ownership. If we cheated then we did so last season as well when we were crap so we didn't gain any advantage. Faurlin has always been eligible to play, that's never been in doubt the problem is over whether QPR knew the player was owned by a third party and how we went about changing that when he signed a new contract. The FA are saying we messed it up but Rangers reckon everything is above board. It all sounds like a paperwork error, even the agent which was unlicensed was actually registered by FIFA at the time so to take points or promotion away would appear to be very harsh. If the punishment for this is effectively a £90million fine and relegation then it will be interesting to see how they work that out should a club not top of the league are charged with the same offence.Would they fine Shrewsbury £90million should they commit the same offence and effectively kill them, would be a very dangerous move by the FA.

If we are guilty the punishment should fit the crime and the league table shouldn't be taken into account, you can't say well QPR are 6 points clear so we'll take 9 off them but if Sheffield United do the same they are bottom so we'll just take 3 off them. Should be the same for everyone. How anyone can be deducted points for this offence is beyond me as it's had no impact on any match this season.

I find the whole third party thing a joke anyway, it's not illegal in any other country and even in England you can have third party owned players. Just look at Mikele Leigterwood, owned by QPR but playing for Reading which helps both clubs out especially QPR when Leigterwood couldn't play against us and when you take points off our rivals, I don't think you've lost any games he's played in have you? The way the loan system works in this country means that clubs who loan players out are able to have an effect on other clubs matches, Man Utd do it all the time loaning good keepers out to stop other teams winning then when they face them they play against an old fella or a rookie in goal and walk off with an easy win.

For anyone to say they would walk away from football if QPR are not robbed of promotion over this is laughable, it's supposed to be a sport, where at the end of the season the best side over 46 games wins the league, the true farce would be if they make the Norwich or Cardiff champions over a technicality.Like it or not we've been the best side this season and if we finish with the most points we will deserve to go up as champions. Good luck in the playoffs.

I quite agree with you that league position should not come into it: the same set penalties should be given to any club for set offences. So why the league pick that date for the hearing I don't know.

I don't agree that loaning players is the same as third party ownership of players. Whatever they do in other countries, it makes sense for ownership in our league to be clear, with no grey areas. It should be the same with ownership of clubs, because we saw the murk over the anonymous ownership of Notts County--and Leeds, for one, are very murkily owned. The principle extends beyond football: we saw with the banking crisis the problems created when those responsible for debts could not be traced through the mess of resold obligations. In my opinion, one of the reasons Plymouth have got into trouble is that too many cooks had their finger in the broth. If someone wanted to buy Faurlin during the period in question, they should have been buying him off QPR, without a third party wanting their five pennyworth. Apart from anything else, it keeps the money in the game; a world in which players like Rooney were owned by third parties, as a form of investment, would be disastrous.

[Mr. Reading]

LOL @ a QPR fan coming on here telling us they're innocent - good to see the FA wasting money on a court case they know they have no chance of winning.



Also,

If we are guilty the punishment should fit the crime

If the punishment for this is effectively a £90million fine and relegation then it will be interesting to see how they work that out should a club not top of the league are charged with the same offence.Would they fine Shrewsbury £90million should they commit the same offence and effectively kill them, would be a very dangerous move by the FA.

This is where you're mistaken (apart from the fact that the fine wouldn't be 90m, you can't call not receiving a prize you would have got had you got away with cheating "a fine" - that would be like Mugabe fixing an election and subsequently having the presidency taken away from him, and then calling his lower wage "a fine" for him).

Either way, the rules are normally that the punishment should be "proportionate and dissuasive" - therefore, QPR, if found guilty, should be fined a lot larger a sum than most other clubs in a similar situation. Whereas a 100k fine might completely cripple a non-league club, it would mean absolutely nothing to QPR and therefore not be "dissuasive".

HTH


Edit: And don't take this to mean I think that QPR are guilty, because I (like you) have absolutely no idea, due to the simple fact I'm not one of the lawyers involved with the case. Just that, if they are guilty, the punishment may be a lot worse than you seem to think.

[SpaceCruiser]

I don't agree that loaning players is the same as third party ownership of players.

+1.

In Mikele Leigertwood's case, the third party is a football club.

In Tevez's case (back when he was with Wet Sham) and Faurlin's (possible) case, their registrations weren't owned by a football club, but by an individual or a group of individuals who aren't connected to any football club.

[Z175]

It is embarrassing the thread is this long. If you googled this issue when it broke you got Leeds, cardiff, norwich and swansea forums and err 12th placed Reading.

But its all to do with your manager's pathological hatred for our club. I mean he finally arrives with an expensive team better than us and somehow still orders them to kick lumps!

Perhaps the punishment should be Wally Downes imposed as assistant!

[brendywendy]

if he didnt want boos and heckles he shouldnt spend his life acting like a pantomime villain.
i enjoy hating him, and im pretty sure he secretly enjoys being hated. it means he is doing something right.