Oh, What A Lovely Defecit!

[Ian Royal]

Don't think the accounts detail how much was paid for who or received for who though - if it is "undisclosed". Isn't it just all lumped in together as transfer fees in and fees out or something?

Yeah, wasn't intending to suggest it would give you specific figures for individual things. It's an overview only.

[Bandini]

All I know is that the club is playing with fire if they think they can continually sell off their best talent and remain at the level they are. They have been fortunate to this point in time. One of these times the young talent, which is replacing what was sold, isn't going to come through for us. Then the death spiral free fall will begin with our "well run" club. Like a stone right through the lower divisions as revenues dry up...to the point we'll be so "well run" we'll have the lowest wage bill imaginable and very few fans coming to the games. It is much easier to run something which is that small well...and none of those nasty black holes which threaten to entirely destroy our beloved club every year.

Let's not exaggerate the extent of your knowledge, Libertine.

[Libertine]

All I know is that the club is playing with fire if they think they can continually sell off their best talent and remain at the level they are. They have been fortunate to this point in time. One of these times the young talent, which is replacing what was sold, isn't going to come through for us. Then the death spiral free fall will begin with our "well run" club. Like a stone right through the lower divisions as revenues dry up...to the point we'll be so "well run" we'll have the lowest wage bill imaginable and very few fans coming to the games. It is much easier to run something which is that small well...and none of those nasty black holes which threaten to entirely destroy our beloved club every year.

Let's not exaggerate the extent of your knowledge, Libertine.

Just my opinion...I never claimed to be omnipotent or something even remotely close to that. And, in my case at least, I hope I am wrong too.

[Wimb]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106945&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

From this very board not a month ago....

Championship clubs are spending £4 for every £3 they generate in revenue according to figures released today. Although Championship revenues increased by 9% to exceed £400m for the first time “urgent corrective action” is required according to Deloitte’s Annual Review of Football Finance.

Championship clubs’ operating results worsened for the sixth consecutive year, to a record loss of £133m. 14 Championship clubs lost £5m or more at an operating level as opposed to 12 clubs in 2008/09 – in comparison only three clubs reported pre-tax profits. The Football League’s new domestic TV deal, coming in at £195m, is a 26% drop on the previous one while added pressures on matchday and commercial revenues risk weakening clubs’ positions further, says Deloitte.

Around one third of clubs in the Championship paid out more in wages than they earned in revenue. Deloitte says the correlation between wage costs and league finishing position remains weaker in the Championship than the Premier League although evidence indicates automatic promotion almost always requires a top six ranked wage bill. Championship clubs’ wages grew by 6% to £357m although their wages/revenue ratio dropped to 88% from a record high of 90% the previous season due to revenue growth.

The Football League suffered a 6% decrease in attendances in 2010/11. Deloitte said this was due to a change in the mix of clubs in the Championship and reflective of the “challenges faced by lower league clubs arising from the economic climate”. The aggregate net debt of the 24 Championship clubs has increased to £875m at the end of the 2009/10 season (£459m at summer 2009). Excluding Newcastle United, the figure falls to £587m in summer 2010 – but is still up £128m year on year.

[Royal Rother]

You think any of this bunch are going to read it, understand it, believe it and relate anything back to the real world RFC are operating in? Not a chance in hell. It will go completely over their heads.

They all know that Madejski is pocketing the cash, creating black holes where none exist, lying to the fans etc. etc.

[FiNeRaIn]

No, the question is why when we are making BY FAR the most in the football league out of player sales, are we spending amongst the least. Its that black and white. Everyone else is managing not to go bust with a few years worth of parachute payments and over 37 million in player sales in the last four years yet we have this luxury, so why would we? I don't want to win some sort of morale campaign regarding finances, I want us to win. If pompey can get away scott free after what they have pulled and how close they ran it, I think we can take our chances with buying 1/2 players.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

JM has always had money to cover loans and overdrafts in the past, now he does not. So the prudent thing is not to run up huge debt, that could be called in, and result in him losing any of the businesses he has, and therefore longer term having less chance of him putting more into the club from his own wealth.

The recession will not last forever, and we should all hope that his businesses come out the other end, or RFC could be in a lot of trouble.

[Ian Royal]

No, the question is why when we are making BY FAR the most in the football league out of player sales, are we spending amongst the least. Its that black and white. Everyone else is managing not to go bust with a few years worth of parachute payments and over 37 million in player sales in the last four years yet we have this luxury, so why would we? I don't want to win some sort of morale campaign regarding finances, I want us to win. If pompey can get away scott free after what they have pulled and how close they ran it, I think we can take our chances with buying 1/2 players.

It's simple. We won't run up massive debts and then write them off paying 2p in the £, because we're not morally bankrupt. I'd wait a couple more seasons to see how well Pompey's situation leaves them if I were you. They've fallen further than us, from a bigger position of strength and they are far from out of the water yet.

You can't argue we aren't spending enough, and then complain that what we are spending leaves us needing to make one big sale a season to avoid increasing our debt. Spending more, means increasing debt. At some point we'll get to the point where we can't manage that debt anymore and we'll drop. Building up the debt *might* get us into and keep us in the Premier League, but sonner or later it'll screw us and we'll drop. And there's no way of knowing how far.

We aren't one of the "big clubs" who are likely to get away with more leniency than they deserve.

[Derbyshire Royal]

You only need to look at the two Sheffield clubs to see what financial mismanagement does for a club. I would rather have Mr Mad at the helm anyday of the week.

The Owls are only just on an even keel after Mandaric paid off a lot of debts and loads of creditors took a massive reduction in what they were owed.

[RoyalBlue]

You think any of this bunch are going to read it, understand it, believe it and relate anything back to the real world RFC are operating in? Not a chance in hell. It will go completely over their heads.

They all know that Madejski is pocketing the cash, creating black holes where none exist, lying to the fans etc. etc.

Equally you think the sun shines out of his posterior and that he is a superb business man. The current state of RFC (brilliantly run, a model for others to follow, but black holes in its finances every year) and that of his other businesses would suggest he isn't as brilliant as some would have us believe.

[Royal Rother]

The fact that we are secure in the Championship, able to balance the books every year with highly profitable sales of young players we have developed and have no significant financial problems suggests it is.

[DOYLERSAROYALER]

You only need to look at the two Sheffield clubs to see what financial mismanagement does for a club. I would rather have Mr Mad at the helm anyday of the week.

The Owls are only just on an even keel after Mandaric paid off a lot of debts and loads of creditors took a massive reduction in what they were owed.

Why is it that everyone looks at the extreme cases such as Sheffields, Pompey, Leeds and co and compare our club to theirs ....theres still a large number of clubs unlike those . thankfully we are one of them, but lets not get too carried away that we are the ONLY one

[Ian Royal]

You think any of this bunch are going to read it, understand it, believe it and relate anything back to the real world RFC are operating in? Not a chance in hell. It will go completely over their heads.

They all know that Madejski is pocketing the cash, creating black holes where none exist, lying to the fans etc. etc.

Equally you think the sun shines out of his posterior and that he is a superb business man. The current state of RFC (brilliantly run, a model for others to follow, but black holes in its finances every year) and that of his other businesses would suggest he isn't as brilliant as some would have us believe.

You take the best scenario available to you. In the context of a recession and the general irresponsible and corrupt nature of football, it is about as good as you can get without just jumping down into the sewage with the rest and crossing your fingers.

Doylersaroyaler: If these are the extremes, how come they cover, Leicester, Leeds, Sheffield Utd, Sheffield Weds, Pompey, Cardiff, West Ham, Hull, Plymouth, Palace, Saints, Luton, Bradford, Ipswich, Derby, QPR.... All who have been in massive financial trouble at some point in the last 10 years. Not to mention a lot of other smaller clubs.

If more than 16 out of 90 odd clubs have suffered in this way... we're hardly talking extremes. I'd personally say the two Sheffields are two of the less extreme cases which could be used compared to Leeds, Pompey and Saints.

[Derbyshire Royal]

You only need to look at the two Sheffield clubs to see what financial mismanagement does for a club. I would rather have Mr Mad at the helm anyday of the week.

The Owls are only just on an even keel after Mandaric paid off a lot of debts and loads of creditors took a massive reduction in what they were owed.

Why is it that everyone looks at the extreme cases such as Sheffields, Pompey, Leeds and co and compare our club to theirs ....theres still a large number of clubs unlike those . thankfully we are one of them, but lets not get too carried away that we are the ONLY one

I didnt say we are the only one, what I said was that I would rather have Mr Mad at the helm any day. Dont think I was getting carried away at all. Thats the thinmg when you make comparisons, you usually need to compare things.

[No Fixed Abode]

Anyone else notice the deficit seems to grow in exact correlation with money earned from transfers?

Interesting.

I noticed this.

However - as much as people moan about it - most of them will still buy a season ticket.

I'm suspect McDonut was given a transfer budget of say £1m - regardless of selling Mills/Long etc. The money gener8ed from those sales will go back into the club for oper8ing costs in future and to fund JMs other ventures.

In all honesty, you're still being fleeced.

[Once were Biscuitmen]

Didn't we have this exact same over-reaction spasfest last year and then end up in the play-off final?

5 million quid is excellent business for an average championship defender.

We are still going to suffer a tad from doing the sane financial thing when competing against clubs paying for performance with debt. However the last ten years haven't been that bad considering if you look at our relative size/income/history we 'should' have spent the majority of the lower to mid table of the 2nd tier.

And hearty lulz to the avalanche of going nowhere office monkeys criticizing the business acumen of a multi-millionaire.

[Once were Biscuitmen]

Didn't we have this exact same over-reaction spasfest last year and then end up in the play-off final?

5 million quid is excellent business for an average championship defender.

We are still going to suffer a tad from doing the sane financial thing when competing against clubs paying for performance with debt. However the last ten years haven't been that bad considering if you look at our relative size/income/history we 'should' have spent the majority of the time in the lower to mid table of the 2nd tier.

And hearty lulz to the avalanche of going nowhere office monkeys criticizing the business acumen of a multi-millionaire.

[Libertine]

And after we sold Gylfi last year we were going mid-table nowhere until we got Leigertwood.

And SJM's statement to McD that none of the money from the Mills sale will be used to get a replacement is very troubling in terms of the team's on the pitch prospects for 2011/2012. We do not have the organizational depth to replace Mills from within, just like we didn't have it last year to replace Gylfi.

[Ian Royal]

And after we sold Gylfi last year we were going mid-table nowhere until we got Leigertwood.

And SJM's statement to McD that none of the money from the Mills sale will be used to get a replacement is very troubling in terms of the team's on the pitch prospects for 2011/2012. We do not have the organizational depth to replace Mills from within, just like we didn't have it last year to replace Gylfi.

I seem to recall we were hovering around the edges of the play offs prior to January, 6th - 11th. It was only after that we dropped down into the 11th - 14th zone which we recovered from, unless I'm mistaken I unfortunately can't find the graph Platy posted a few months ago.

We did replace Gylfi from within, with Long as it turns out, just not on a like for like basis or in a way any of us could have expected.

We will bring in a new defender. We're not going to leave the transfer window with only Morrison & Pearce as recognised regular Centrebacks. Even if none of the money to do so comes from the Mills transfer.

[Libertine]

Long played in the MF?

I hear what you are saying Ian about Long's goal scoring offsetting what we lost with Gylfi. But Gylfi's departure left a big hole in the middle that wasn't properly filled until Leigertwood's arrival. I guess there is a rumor we are serious about Lee Williamson. If so we have potentially found Mills' replacement will Leigertwood moving to CB, where he has played before, and Williamson playing in the MF. Rumor and speculation and all but I am hoping we all agree with have to do something to fill the hole left by Mills' departure...