Oh, What A Lovely Defecit!

[ZacNaloen]

Well, if the business model requires a £5 million profit on player transactions every year to function, then, unless everyone around us has point deductions/bankruptcies, it will inevitably lead to our being less and less competitive, relegation, further reduction in income, greater requirement to sell players, further uncompetiiveness etc, etc.

Is this really a model to be lauded?

This is everyone's model. The difference between us and them is that we aren't chasing loans and are trying to spend only within our means.

[Royal Rother]

OMFG, it's Groundhog Day. Must we really cover the same ground again and again.

The basic, fundamental fact is that if you are running a Championship team then expenditure will be greater than income. FULL STOP. A football league club is not a profit-making enterprise and never will be. It's horrible but it's true - and while wealth distribution in English football is structured the way it currently is then this is a basic, unalterable fact, no matter how much people with their heads up their arses might choose not to see it.

To cover that excess of expenditure over income there either has to be outside money coming in or the club will face insolvency.

Some clubs have rich benefactors who loan money to the club to cover this on-going deficit (Notes that they only very rarely give money to the club concerned.) For the vast majority of those clubs, soft debt is building up and building up all the time.

We do not have that option available to us - we are being run as a self-sufficient business organisation. That means that when we have an annual operating deficit we have to sell assets to cover that deficit.

The options are either decrease expenditure (i.e. don't compete in teh league) or increase income (errr - how do we do that?). Alternatively, go and get a foreigner prepared to throw money at the problem - but for every Man City Sheik there are about 25 unknown Pompey/Birmingham-esque villains who want a vehicle for asset stripping and/or money-laundering.

Well, if the business model requires a £5 million profit on player transactions every year to function, then, unless everyone around us has point deductions/bankruptcies, it will inevitably lead to our being less and less competitive, relegation, further reduction in income, greater requirement to sell players, further uncompetiiveness etc, etc.

Is this really a model to be lauded?

It's the only way... or do you see an alternative?

Play off final. Qtr final of the FA Cup. Last season didn't look too bad to me and I don't see any sign of us becoming uncompetitive just yet.

It's the same every season, the same people talking about relegation, the fact that the club is doomed to failure as long as SJM is in charge, and guess what...? We have another season of relative success for a club of our size where our finishing position in the points table is higher than our position in the attendance table.

[brendywendy]

Well, if the business model requires a £5 million profit on player transactions every year to function, then, unless everyone around us has point deductions/bankruptcies, it will inevitably lead to our being less and less competitive, relegation, further reduction in income, greater requirement to sell players, further uncompetiiveness etc, etc.

Is this really a model to be lauded?

This is everyone's model. The difference between us and them is that we aren't chasing loans and are trying to spend only within our means.

ill laud it while its succesful. and the minute it isnt JM will step in.
so yeah.

[Vision]

Bottom line is we are not a big club even by championship standards.

Even running a wage bill that is average for this division will see us lose significant money over a financial year.

The 106 season was acheived at a loss of something like £7m for the year (despite full houses and half season tickets for the second half of the season).Championship players wage expectations are certainly no less now than they were then despite how hard the average person is hit by the current financial climate.

We are still reasonably competitive wage wise in this division but we wont/cant compete with clubs that have a wealthy benefactor prepared to invest huge amounts or with clubs that are already heavily in debt but are working on the principle of "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb".

This last factor is the biggest gripe most seem to have and I understand the frustration of seeing clubs seemingly get away with it beacuse no-one's getting "hung for sheep or lambs" at present. I genuinely don't think this will always be the case though.

As Schards points out our "model" has inherent risks attached to it but then so do all "models" to some extent. I'd just like to think if ours flounders then the worst possible outcome is a relegation as opposed to other "models" which threaten the very existence of the clubs themselves (and despite the cries of hysteria from some quarters this is what a lot of clubs are gambling with)
Thats why in some quarters people refer to us as "well run" while others may well refer to us as "mugs"

Given the above its also understandable that fans might call for JM to make way for someone who is prepared to add investment. However it would take significant investment just to take us to the middle ground between the way we work and the way Leicester for example are operating at the moment. However do we really think there are people queueing up to do this? I suspect that it isn't just JM's asking price that would be the stumbling block towards a change of ownership either as equally I think his stated intention to sell to the right person is also important. Better that than the likes of Mandaric,Sullivan etc who come into clubs as "saviours" take the plaudits then sell off to the highest bidder regardless of where their money comes from or what their intentions are.

As frustrating as it can be, I'll take JM's policy s over pretty much any others. It's not like we've spent the last 10 years floundering around wih nothing to cheer about on the pitch is it??

[brendywendy]

shirley the last ten years have tought us that JM and the club know what theyre doing.
they arent idiots.

[winchester_royal]

Dear Winchester.

Ah thats right, doing a bradford or leeds...that old chestnut in threatening the clubs future.

Kind regards, Portsmouth.

Portsmouth fans spent quite a few days last year very concerned that they might no longer have a club to support.

Do you want to go through that? Coz I sure as hell don't.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Dear Winchester.

Ah thats right, doing a bradford or leeds...that old chestnut in threatening the clubs future.

Kind regards, Portsmouth.

Portsmouth fans spent quite a few days last year very concerned that they might no longer have a club to support.

Do you want to go through that? Coz I sure as hell don't.

And because of the likes of Portsmouth, the rules are tightening all the time. What passed for acceptable a few years ago is no longer possible.

PS Plymouth fans saw their club lose its ground last week and be bought by Peter Ridsdale for the princely sum of £1.

[No Fixed Abode]

I blame the black hole on people sneaking in bottle of captain morgans rum and not buying an alcoholic drink from the ground.

[Rob-Royal]

gates were down,and so were sales of everything at the ground.loads of our game prices had to be discounted, other than that, i cant see a reason we cant spend a bit of the mills money.what i do know is that jm isnt stealing, or syphoning it off,and we will see the whole picture when the accounts come out,or when the club come out and make more statements to placate the baying mob. Id imagine we will buy.well have targets agreed to fill gaps that we have scouted and feel will fit with,and add to the squad. i guess that doesnt change cos we suddenly have 5million quid. I do think we need to,and will replace anyone who goes. But if we dont i trust that theres a damn good reason.

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

[Svlad Cjelli]

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

Ah, the cut and thrust of intelligent debate. Oscar Wilde would be so proud .....

[Rob-Royal]

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

Ah, the cut and thrust of intelligent debate. Oscar Wilde would be so proud .....

Like being called a twat you mean....?

Oscar Wilde, he liked them too I believe!

[Hampshire Royal]

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

Do you know what, you're absolutely right!! The average gate for 2010/11 was greater than 2009/10 by a massive 274. I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that with this poorly run, cheapskate club managed (purely by luck, of course) managed to get to the playoffs, not only that but even managed to scrape into the final by thrashing the spendthrift Cardiff. I've no doubt that if you were a Cardiff fan you'd be looking at the two clubs in that semi-final and saying that the way Reading is run is better than the way Cardiff is run. Some people are never happy unless they're miserable.

And I'd like you to try and explain this obsession you have with old men's bottoms (it may not be you who talks about people who are happy with the way this club is run having their noses up JM's rear end, but it sure as hell is another wakner just like you).

[Rob-Royal]

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

Do you know what, you're absolutely right!! The average gate for 2010/11 was greater than 2009/10 by a massive 274. I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that with this poorly run, cheapskate club managed (purely by luck, of course) managed to get to the playoffs, not only that but even managed to scrape into the final by thrashing the spendthrift Cardiff. I've no doubt that if you were a Cardiff fan you'd be looking at the two clubs in that semi-final and saying that the way Reading is run is better than the way Cardiff is run. Some people are never happy unless they're miserable.

And I'd like you to try and explain this obsession you have with old men's bottoms (it may not be you who talks about people who are happy with the way this club is run having their noses up JM's rear end, but it sure as hell is another wakner just like you).

I love this forum, make a 'qualified' statement and you get shot down, inject a little humour and your intelligence is brought into question, dare raise your concern about the lack of investment and you get crucified!

Cheers guys! have a great day....

[Hampshire Royal]

Ohhhhhh, I see......your assertion that anyone who goes against your idea that the club is doing something wrong by not 'investing' ridiculous amounts of money for players, has their nose and tongue firmly up JM's sphincter was an injection of humour. I'm sorry, it wasn't immediately obvious, but now you've explained it ................ nope, it's still not obvious.

In any case, I actually agreed with your 'qualified' statement.

[Rob-Royal]

Ohhhhhh, I see......your assertion that anyone who goes against your idea that the club is doing something wrong by not 'investing' ridiculous amounts of money for players, has their nose and tongue firmly up JM's sphincter was an injection of humour. I'm sorry, it wasn't immediately obvious, but now you've explained it ................ nope, it's still not obvious.

In any case, I actually agreed with your 'qualified' statement.

You're missing the point, read through my previous posts on this thread and don't be so judgemental my dear....

Btw...I liked the pun 'assertion' - cracked me up! see what I did there?

[Hampshire Royal]

I'm a loss to comedy, me.

[Rob-Royal]

I'm a loss to comedy, me.

I know! Btw...what's a wakner?

[brendywendy]

gates were down,and so were sales of everything at the ground.loads of our game prices had to be discounted, other than that, i cant see a reason we cant spend a bit of the mills money.what i do know is that jm isnt stealing, or syphoning it off,and we will see the whole picture when the accounts come out,or when the club come out and make more statements to placate the baying mob. Id imagine we will buy.well have targets agreed to fill gaps that we have scouted and feel will fit with,and add to the squad. i guess that doesnt change cos we suddenly have 5million quid. I do think we need to,and will replace anyone who goes. But if we dont i trust that theres a damn good reason.

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

what if i meant gates were down across the division
i didnt, but what if eh?


and oxf*rd off

[brendywendy]

Gates were not down, they were up on the previous season. Yet again you continue making unqualified statements about how the club is run as if you have some kind of direct line to JM or as I mentioned earlier you have a preference for old mens bottoms!

Ah, the cut and thrust of intelligent debate. Oscar Wilde would be so proud .....

Like being called a twat you mean....?

Oscar Wilde, he liked them too I believe!

when i called you a twat cos you said i licked jms arse you mean?

oooohh iii doooo apologise

[Archie's penalty]

Bottom line is we are not a big club even by championship standards.

Even running a wage bill that is average for this division will see us lose significant money over a financial year.

The 106 season was acheived at a loss of something like £7m for the year (despite full houses and half season tickets for the second half of the season).Championship players wage expectations are certainly no less now than they were then despite how hard the average person is hit by the current financial climate.

We are still reasonably competitive wage wise in this division but we wont/cant compete with clubs that have a wealthy benefactor prepared to invest huge amounts or with clubs that are already heavily in debt but are working on the principle of "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb".

This last factor is the biggest gripe most seem to have and I understand the frustration of seeing clubs seemingly get away with it beacuse no-one's getting "hung for sheep or lambs" at present. I genuinely don't think this will always be the case though.

As Schards points out our "model" has inherent risks attached to it but then so do all "models" to some extent. I'd just like to think if ours flounders then the worst possible outcome is a relegation as opposed to other "models" which threaten the very existence of the clubs themselves (and despite the cries of hysteria from some quarters this is what a lot of clubs are gambling with)
Thats why in some quarters people refer to us as "well run" while others may well refer to us as "mugs"

Given the above its also understandable that fans might call for JM to make way for someone who is prepared to add investment. However it would take significant investment just to take us to the middle ground between the way we work and the way Leicester for example are operating at the moment. However do we really think there are people queueing up to do this? I suspect that it isn't just JM's asking price that would be the stumbling block towards a change of ownership either as equally I think his stated intention to sell to the right person is also important. Better that than the likes of Mandaric,Sullivan etc who come into clubs as "saviours" take the plaudits then sell off to the highest bidder regardless of where their money comes from or what their intentions are.

As frustrating as it can be, I'll take JM's policy s over pretty much any others. It's not like we've spent the last 10 years floundering around wih nothing to cheer about on the pitch is it??

End of thread.