Oh, What A Lovely Defecit!

[winchester_royal]

How can a wage bill exceed 60 million from TV money, 40 million in player sales + merchandising and sell ours every week in the prem on pretty high season ticket and gate prices. Just how much were we paying average players to make that believable?

Unfortunately, a wage bill isn't the only form of operating costs that a football club has to deal with.

[Ian Royal]

How can a wage bill exceed 60 million from TV money, 40 million in player sales + merchandising and sell ours every week in the prem on pretty high season ticket and gate prices. Just how much were we paying average players to make that believable?

Already been shown countless times that our Prem wage budget exceeded the £60m we got in TV money.

Try actually looking up some information, rather than making it all up in your tiny mind, you utter retard.

[FiNeRaIn]

How can a wage bill exceed 60 million from TV money, 40 million in player sales + merchandising and sell ours every week in the prem on pretty high season ticket and gate prices. Just how much were we paying average players to make that believable?

Unfortunately, a wage bill isn't the only form of operating costs that a football club has to deal with.

But its by FAR the highest, of course there are stadium costs, policing, training facilities but these are a fraction of wages. You could probably pay all these with the play-off final gate receipts.

[FiNeRaIn]

How can a wage bill exceed 60 million from TV money, 40 million in player sales + merchandising and sell ours every week in the prem on pretty high season ticket and gate prices. Just how much were we paying average players to make that believable?

Already been shown countless times that our Prem wage budget exceeded the £60m we got in TV money.

Try actually looking up some information, rather than making it all up in your tiny mind, you utter retard.

You're the retard, you are making the argument purely about the prem, we came down sold most of our best players for astronomical fee's and still can't buy anyone. c**t.

[Ian Royal]

What's that, Finerain plucking figures out of the air again with no idea what he's talking about? oh my, How bloody surprising.

[Royalee]

What's that, Finerain plucking figures out of the air again with no idea what he's talking about? oh my, How bloody surprising.

So are you.

[WoodleyRoyal]

http://star-reading.org/index.php/downl ... ew/165/74/

[Royalee]

http://star-reading.org/index.php/download_file/view/165/74/

Interest free 'loan' then given that it makes up most of the 'debt'? Madejski should either be honest with the fans in that he's taking back this 'loan' (which he's received awards for supposedly investing out of 'the goodness of his heart'), and cut this mystery bullshit about a deficit or write it off and keep his awards. The celebrity status he's earned off the back of the club is reward for his 'membership fee' as chairman which he invested.

[Royal Rother]

You can be a pedant all you want, I'm perfectly capable of structuring my grammar I just simply can't be bothered to take care during these silly debates anymore.

As for " using a brain" and " adding up", you always use these petty insults but very rarely do you counter anything with actual facts or figures. You're a pretty tiresome character on these threads and I knew as soon as I quoted your name you'd pop out of your shell with the same old tripe. In that respect its my own fault.

The facts are we raked in a lot of money during the prem campaign and 40million-ish since in player sales. All this into account we've spent close to sweet FA on the team. That cannot be argued and it doesn't need a mathematician to do so.

Moving on.

It has been explained to you, reasonably politely in the main, by about a dozen different posters, on probably 40 or 50 occasions now (we've all had several goes at it) where the money has gone and not once have you accepted any of the FACTS given.

It is only a matter of basic addition and subtraction yet you are quite obviously incapable of taking in even the most basic of sums - which is cool, I'm sure your intelligence lies in some other less academic area (can addition and subtraction be called academic?). But it really is frustrating when you pop up on every one of these threads asking the exact same question every bloody time.

You quote a small part of the story which is how much we've sold players for, and no-one really argues with you on that score but it's just one part of the story. You quote Sky money at £90m today which I think was shown to be £30m over the top, but I'm not going to make a big deal of that (simple mistake eh, £30,000,000?) because the main issue to me is that you will not accept that the numbers we quote for you, numbers that are taken straight from the accounts filed at Companies House, are correct.

We know what we are talking about. If you understood double entry accounting then you would know it is just not possible to hide the vast sums of money anywhere in those accounts; but you don't so you won't. Which, although I'm a patient man and have trained many people in the noble art of bookkeeping and accounting, can actually get quite irritating after a while.

If it is ever proved that SJM and Myers Clarke (the auditors) are in cahoots in some massive and complex money-laundering operation I will apologise to you most profusely and send you a bottle of the finest malt whiskey, but seriously, in the meantime, on this subject, could you just shut the fcuk up?

[sandman]

The simple fact is Madejski has lost his drive. He isn't laundering money, he's just older and would rather see if promotion happens rather than chase it the way he did when he was younger, brasher and had a manager like Pards who had the energy to push him to succeed.

He's reached the top of the mountain, come back down again and although he has the ambition to go back up the drive and single-minded determination to do it has gone.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is frustrating to some while others are quite happy to have seen the top flight and don't really care if we get there again.

[rhroyal]

http://star-reading.org/index.php/download_file/view/165/74/

Interest free 'loan' then given that it makes up most of the 'debt'? Madejski should either be honest with the fans in that he's taking back this 'loan' (which he's received awards for supposedly investing out of 'the goodness of his heart'), and cut this mystery bullshit about a deficit or write it off and keep his awards. The celebrity status he's earned off the back of the club is reward for his 'membership fee' as chairman which he invested.

It was his money; he is entitled to it back and has given us excellent terms on it. And what mystery deficit? It's all in the financial records, no real mystery. I don't think he'll ever withdraw the entire loan to be honest; when we sells the club the new owner will buy the debt and SJM gets his money back that way.

[Ian Royal]

What's that, Finerain plucking figures out of the air again with no idea what he's talking about? oh my, How bloody surprising.

So are you.

Er, where?

[Svlad Cjelli]

The simple fact is Madejski has lost his drive. He isn't laundering money, he's just older and would rather see if promotion happens rather than chase it the way he did when he was younger, brasher and had a manager like Pards who had the energy to push him to succeed.

He's reached the top of the mountain, come back down again and although he has the ambition to go back up the drive and single-minded determination to do it has gone.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is frustrating to some while others are quite happy to have seen the top flight and don't really care if we get there again.

I don't think it's quite like that - he's been to the PL and realised that the expenditure goes up to match the increased income, and that the only way to compete in that league is to throw mega-bucks at the team with no guarantees. He doesn't want to join in that type of pissing competition.

In addition, publishing and property have both had very bad times recently - his other businesses aren't doing well and he is short on liquid assets, so this part of his business empire has to stand on its own two feet.

[Ian Royal]

The simple fact is Madejski has lost his drive. He isn't laundering money, he's just older and would rather see if promotion happens rather than chase it the way he did when he was younger, brasher and had a manager like Pards who had the energy to push him to succeed.

He's reached the top of the mountain, come back down again and although he has the ambition to go back up the drive and single-minded determination to do it has gone.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is frustrating to some while others are quite happy to have seen the top flight and don't really care if we get there again.

I don't think it's quite like that - he's been to the PL and realised that the expenditure goes up to match the increased income, and that the only way to compete in that league is to throw mega-bucks at the team with no guarantees. He doesn't want to join in that type of pissing competition.

In addition, publishing and property have both had very bad times recently - his other businesses aren't doing well and he is short on liquid assets, so this part of his business empire has to stand on its own two feet.

He's probably not particularly encouraged by the criticism he gets no matter what he does and how well we end up performing either.

[RoyalBlue]

The simple fact is Madejski has lost his drive. He isn't laundering money, he's just older and would rather see if promotion happens rather than chase it the way he did when he was younger, brasher and had a manager like Pards who had the energy to push him to succeed.

He's reached the top of the mountain, come back down again and although he has the ambition to go back up the drive and single-minded determination to do it has gone.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is frustrating to some while others are quite happy to have seen the top flight and don't really care if we get there again.

I don't think it's quite like that - he's been to the PL and realised that the expenditure goes up to match the increased income, and that the only way to compete in that league is to throw mega-bucks at the team with no guarantees. He doesn't want to join in that type of pissing competition.

In addition, publishing and property have both had very bad times recently - his other businesses aren't doing well and he is short on liquid assets, so this part of his business empire has to stand on its own two feet.

If he doesn' t want to join in that type of competition, then he should stop trying to still reap the glory of playing in the big boys play ground (maybe Reading Town would be more comfortable for him), walk the walk and deliver on his talk of selling. In order to do that, he needs to offer the club at a price that others believe is reasonable and not at a price that he dreams of getting. Also, he needs to remove his branding from the product that is up for sale.

As for the final paragraph, he clearly isn't quite the business superstar that some would have us believe. Had he been, he would have made sure he backed other horses in addition to publishing (how many people would want to invest in paper publishing in the 21st century) and property. In fact he reminds me of that ad about putting your money on the wrong colour etc!

That having been said, I think there is a lot to be said for Sandman's interpretation.

[RoyalBlue]

The simple fact is Madejski has lost his drive. He isn't laundering money, he's just older and would rather see if promotion happens rather than chase it the way he did when he was younger, brasher and had a manager like Pards who had the energy to push him to succeed.

He's reached the top of the mountain, come back down again and although he has the ambition to go back up the drive and single-minded determination to do it has gone.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is frustrating to some while others are quite happy to have seen the top flight and don't really care if we get there again.

I don't think it's quite like that - he's been to the PL and realised that the expenditure goes up to match the increased income, and that the only way to compete in that league is to throw mega-bucks at the team with no guarantees. He doesn't want to join in that type of pissing competition.

In addition, publishing and property have both had very bad times recently - his other businesses aren't doing well and he is short on liquid assets, so this part of his business empire has to stand on its own two feet.

He's probably not particularly encouraged by the criticism he gets no matter what he does and how well we end up performing either.

Ah diddums! He didn't seem to mind the plaudits too much! Rough with smooth I would say.

[sheshnu]

I'm sure if somebody could provide Sir JM with a legitimate buyer who would guarantee the future success of this football club he has helped to build (er, quite a lot) then he would sell today.

He can hardly be blamed for not foreseeing the current global economic crisis. No more than anybody else, anyway.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

JM would have loved us to have won at Wembley, the club would have been run as it is now in the Premier League, within its own income level, same as Blackpool did, the players would have earned more while there, and some would have become more saleable assets and moved on if we went down.

There will be no one come to buy RFC that will throw money at it, they might try to run the club on debt, selling off all the assets, ala Pompy, and who really wants that. Am I right in thinking that Abramovich at Chelsea is the only person giving money to a top club?

[Svlad Cjelli]

JM would have loved us to have won at Wembley, the club would have been run as it is now in the Premier League, within its own income level, same as Blackpool did, the players would have earned more while there, and some would have become more saleable assets and moved on if we went down.

There will be no one come to buy RFC that will throw money at it, they might try to run the club on debt, selling off all the assets, ala Pompy, and who really wants that. Am I right in thinking that Abramovich at Chelsea is the only person giving money to a top club?

The Sheik at Man City is - but there are big, big questions over the legality and the motives of the buyers of many other clubs. Carsten Yeung, for instance, is currently being prosecuted for money laundering - and many have suggested that an English football club is a perfect vehicle for such activities.

[Vision]

Spending sensibly would be putting in 5/6 million of that ( over the last 3/4 years)on several players on moderate championship wages, however we seem to be incapable of doing that despite these championship freak style player sales.

Unless you mean 5/6m a year which is hardly sensible spending, I think its safe to say we have spent around £5m on transfer fees in the timescale you're talking about though.

Hunt,Armstrong,Tabb,Mills,McAnuff,Raziak,Cummings,Griffin,Harte,Morrisson,Manset,Liegertwood have all been bought for various fees since relegation. If I really wanted to stretch the point I could conceivably add Kebe and Marek to that list as well as they were bought in Jan2008 within the 3/4 year period you're talking about.

Likewise people also tend to forget about the compensation paid to Watford for Rodgers and his whole management team. I don't know for certain but I'd also think we had to come up with a compensation package for sacking them all 6 months later as well, effectively paying 2 management teams for a while.

Ultimately though transfer fees are just a part of the picture.

Bottom line is that as frustrating as you find it (and I sympathise to a degree) our policy is to be self sufficient. We also want to maintain a reasonably competitive squad at this level, so we pay wages that are above what our income dictates we should. Therefore selling a player(s) is the only way to plug the gap between those two stated aims.

Whether you like it or not that is the way it is and the club have made no secret of it but picking figures out of the air and ignoring others will only make you even more frustrated as well as everyone else as we go over the same ground time and time again.