Oh, What A Lovely Defecit!

[RoyalBlue]

Preston North End. Similar size club to Reading, Championship play-off challengers seemingly every year for a decade. Players sold off. Standards deteriorated year on year. They are now in League One.

Preston's average crowd was crap compared to ours. 14000 was an achievement, even when doing well. They didn't average 13500 when getting to the play-offs in 2009.

They overspent for years and went down because they had to sell because their debts got too large.

Still, at least they showed ambition, eh?

So we are far better off than them in terms of income but still having to sell. Keep that up year on year and we could end up following them down too without showing ambition.

[Royal Rother]

Doesn't matter what we do we could end up following them down but right now we are a division above Preston, have a far stronger Balance Sheet and an Academy producing lots of home grown talent.

Terrible position we're in really isn't it?

And I'm sure somehow that all proves the total incompetence, absolute disinterest and all round cuntishness of SJM in your warped mind.

Priceless really.

[brendywendy]

^

[Schards#2]

Long going. Presumably 6 million plus will go into the black hole, taking this summer's defecit to £11mil. I worry that as the family silver gets sold off every summer and replaced with.....well no-one.....that standards will drop so badly we won't have several million quids worth of talent to sell every summer, how do we plug this vast defecit then?

IIRC Sigurdsson filled the black hole that was going to be there at the end of the 2010/2011 season so, presumably, Mills fills the one for 2011/2012 and Long 2012/2013.

Happy days, lets start some balance sheet related chants whenever we are being beaten.

[Wimb]

^

^^

[Wimb]

Long going. Presumably 6 million plus will go into the black hole, taking this summer's defecit to £11mil. I worry that as the family silver gets sold off every summer and replaced with.....well no-one.....that standards will drop so badly we won't have several million quids worth of talent to sell every summer, how do we plug this vast defecit then?

IIRC Sigurdsson filled the black hole that was going to be there at the end of the 2010/2011 season so, presumably, Mills fills the one for 2011/2012 and Long 2012/2013.

Happy days, lets start some balance sheet related chants whenever we are being beaten.

I'd rather sing about going to Wembley as we did last season, with a financial policy that's exactly the same this season as it was the last.

[brendywendy]

Long going. Presumably 6 million plus will go into the black hole, taking this summer's defecit to £11mil. I worry that as the family silver gets sold off every summer and replaced with.....well no-one.....that standards will drop so badly we won't have several million quids worth of talent to sell every summer, how do we plug this vast defecit then?

IIRC Sigurdsson filled the black hole that was going to be there at the end of the 2010/2011 season so, presumably, Mills fills the one for 2011/2012 and Long 2012/2013.

.

that first bit is defo correct.
and i guess there is nothing to stop you presuming the 2nd two at the murment

[floyd__streete]

Happy days, lets start some balance sheet related chants whenever we are being beaten.

I'd rather sing about going to Wembley as we did last season, with a financial policy that's exactly the same this season as it was the last.

How about a chant of:

McDermott
Woah oh oh
He used to manage Slough
And then he managed Reading with an impressive track record of selling players on for large profit
And then he got frustrated at not being able to reinvest
And then another club noticed how successful he was at finding decent players for a small fee and poached him
And then Reading appointed someone less skilled at scouting and the quality bargain signings dried up
And then Reading fans remembered that the likes of Doyle and Long and Shorey and Kitson and Sonko were actually not academy products

[Cypry]

And then Reading fans remembered that the likes of Doyle and Long and Shorey and Kitson and Sonko were actually not academy products[/i]

Long was an academy player....

....so was Gylfi......

And Karacan, Pearce, Church, HRK - Henderson and Henry looked OK at the weekend - Nathan Tyson, Simon Cox?

I'd say our academy's doing pretty well thanks..........

[FiNeRaIn]

Long going. Presumably 6 million plus will go into the black hole, taking this summer's defecit to £11mil. I worry that as the family silver gets sold off every summer and replaced with.....well no-one.....that standards will drop so badly we won't have several million quids worth of talent to sell every summer, how do we plug this vast defecit then?

IIRC Sigurdsson filled the black hole that was going to be there at the end of the 2010/2011 season so, presumably, Mills fills the one for 2011/2012 and Long 2012/2013.

Happy days, lets start some balance sheet related chants whenever we are being beaten.

We need to take care of those black hole's until 2050 before we make a signing, anyone suggesting otherwise needs to be reminded of bradford and leeds.

When the black hole's are all gone
When the black hole's are all goneeeeeeeeeeeee
Maybe then we'll sign someone
When the black hole's are all gone

[floyd__streete]

Long was an academy player....

....so was Gylfi......

And Karacan, Pearce, Church, HRK - Henderson and Henry looked OK at the weekend - Nathan Tyson, Simon Cox?

I'd say our academy's doing pretty well thanks..........

Yep it’s doing great. Stretching it to say Long was an academy graduate per se; he came as part of the Doyle deal and was ready to play league football that same season. Gylfi was a one off; I’d be amazed if we ever got that much money for a home grown product again. Last time I checked we hadn’t quite yet sold off Karacan, Pearce, HRK for big bucks to fill the non-specified defecit, but fair enough I wouldn’t rule it out.

[Svlad Cjelli]

But if we'd not developed Karacan, Pearce, HRK etc just how much would it have cost us to have bought them from elsewhere?

I honestly don't see why there is such scorn about an annual deficit - that's the reality of today's football for a club like us. We pay more out than we get in - that is a fact of life. If we didn't do that we'd have a smaller squad and players would want to leave us even quicker.

But despite the fact that we're spending more than we earn, we're still keeping a competitive team and we're doing it in a relatively small way, such that we can plug that deficit each season through the value that our academy adds to young players. That is a viable business model, as opposed to the majority of other clubs who don't have a business model more any advanced than "trust to luck."

So what exactly do you want?

[facaldaqui]

Preston North End. Similar size club to Reading, Championship play-off challengers seemingly every year for a decade. Players sold off. Standards deteriorated year on year. They are now in League One.

They had a traumatic change of financial policy last year, when they didn't just cut the cloth they took a strimmer to it. Ferguson couldn't handle that, for a start. Brian can handle Reading's financial policy, which is (disappointingly) consistent from year to year. Brian >>> Irving, Ferguson, Brown.

[Cypry]

Gylfi was a one off; I’d be amazed if we ever got that much money for a home grown product again.

You've seen Obita play have you? At 17 he was all over Bristol Rovers the other week (not his only standout pre-season game either) - what about Lawson d'Ath? Jake Taylor? If we can get one /two good seasons out of them and sell them on for good money then that's great as far as I'm concerned...

[FiNeRaIn]

Gylfi was a one off; I’d be amazed if we ever got that much money for a home grown product again.

You've seen Obita play have you? At 17 he was all over Bristol Rovers the other week (not his only standout pre-season game either) - what about Lawson d'Ath? Jake Taylor? If we can get one /two good seasons out of them and sell them on for good money then that's great as far as I'm concerned...

Why is that great? I want players to be here for years, form a relationship with the fans like 10 years ago and progress us as a team and hopefully move on to challenge for promotion. If selling players after 1-2 years of them breaking into the first team is " great" as a football fan, then i'm afraid this game is losing itself more than it seemed. Whats the point in getting attched and feeling passion for a team when as soon as a player starts to perform well they are sold.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Gylfi was a one off; I’d be amazed if we ever got that much money for a home grown product again.

You've seen Obita play have you? At 17 he was all over Bristol Rovers the other week (not his only standout pre-season game either) - what about Lawson d'Ath? Jake Taylor? If we can get one /two good seasons out of them and sell them on for good money then that's great as far as I'm concerned...

Why is that great? I want players to be here for years, form a relationship with the fans like 10 years ago and progress us as a team and hopefully move on to challenge for promotion. If selling players after 1-2 years of them breaking into the first team is " great" as a football fan, then i'm afraid this game is losing itself more than it seemed. Whats the point in getting attched and feeling passion for a team when as soon as a player starts to perform well they are sold.

I think you need to attack the whole game and the way it's structured financially on that one.

[FiNeRaIn]

Whats the point in getting excited about our young players when they'll be sold to fill black hole's as soon as a semi- decent bid comes in?
We don't have any Reading legends or favorites anymore because none of our players are here long enough, a lot of other clubs don't have this problem, some do, but most don't.
I want to feel some affiliation with the team and get excited about our young players and what they could achieve for us on the pitch. I am already not excited about Obita as I know he'll be off as soon as he performs...so whats the point?

[Cypry]

Gylfi was a one off; I’d be amazed if we ever got that much money for a home grown product again.

You've seen Obita play have you? At 17 he was all over Bristol Rovers the other week (not his only standout pre-season game either) - what about Lawson d'Ath? Jake Taylor? If we can get one /two good seasons out of them and sell them on for good money then that's great as far as I'm concerned...

Why is that great? I want players to be here for years, form a relationship with the fans like 10 years ago and progress us as a team and hopefully move on to challenge for promotion. If selling players after 1-2 years of them breaking into the first team is " great" as a football fan, then i'm afraid this game is losing itself more than it seemed. Whats the point in getting attched and feeling passion for a team when as soon as a player starts to perform well they are sold.

Perhaps I should have given a more comprehensive answer - I was talking in the context of Gylfi / Long - i.e. if they outgrow the club, and we can get good money for them then the academy is doing it's job - producing players that can compete at at least our level - if this means that we can get a couple of years out of players who we'd otherwise have no chance of signing (but the reputation of our academy gets them at an early age) then surely that's the best model?
It means that we can afford to create a black hole each year (yes I did say that!!) by paying salaries above what we'd be able to if we ran on a break even basis, and therefore put a more competitive team on the field than we'd otherwise be able to afford. Not only that, but those players that fit our level can stay with us, cost comparatively little and if it's so important, we can form "relationships" with those guys (i.e. Karacan, Pearce, HRK, Church etc)...


I accepted a long time ago that the club will try to never run at a loss as long as SJM is at the helm, and actually that's a situation I'm very comfortable with. If the academy can produce players that are then sold on to play at a higher level, and therefore fund the salaries of a more competitive squad than we'd otherwise be able to afford, then I'll say "thank you very much" and take the money....

[Royal Rother]

If that is how you feel FineRain then there really is no point.

You have to get some excitement from the young home-grown players coming through to the 1st team for it to be a worthwhile experience supporting a football team.

If you really don't get that excitement then I respectfully suggest you pick another team / sport to get the satisfaction you deserve for the financial and emotional outlay you make.

[Victor Meldrew]

But if we'd not developed Karacan, Pearce, HRK etc just how much would it have cost us to have bought them from elsewhere?

I honestly don't see why there is such scorn about an annual deficit - that's the reality of today's football for a club like us. We pay more out than we get in - that is a fact of life. If we didn't do that we'd have a smaller squad and players would want to leave us even quicker.

But despite the fact that we're spending more than we earn, we're still keeping a competitive team and we're doing it in a relatively small way, such that we can plug that deficit each season through the value that our academy adds to young players. That is a viable business model, as opposed to the majority of other clubs who don't have a business model more any advanced than "trust to luck."

So what exactly do you want?

Don't most clubs at the lower levels operate that way,i.e run an academy,hope that one or two can be sold each year,keep in business and generally stay at the level that the size of the local area/support/fan base warrants?
Our model is hardly any different from these clubs (Southampton,Bournemouth,Crewe,Barnet etc) and I would suggest it is the norm outside of the Premiership.
Occasionally these clubs have mad spend-ups (Leicester now , Pompey under Harry,Reading under Pardew and Burns)which may get them to a higher level for a while but eventually clubs find their level.

Ours is probably mid-table Championship (based on increased support and population over the past 20 years or so) whereas when they get it right again clubs like Sheff Utd,Wednesday,Southampton,Forest etc might well get back to the lower levels of the Premier League because of the higher level of support relative to league position.
What some fans find difficult to take (as happened with Saints and Forest)is that the better players are sold so quickly and that is what has happened to us.
I'm not saying that approach is wrong,just that our club is little different from many others and that our academy is much the same as most others and achieves the same objective as most others outside of the top tier.i.e bring them on and sell them and if we have a season or two in the sun then so be it.
I just feel that things could have been so much better managed during that 2nd Premier season and with better management throughout the club our stay in the sun could have lasted a few years longer as in the ccases of Wigan and Fulham.