The generic transfer thread

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Vision
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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Vision » 09 Aug 2011 12:19

Thomas L'Heureux
Hoop Blah
Thomas L'Heureux How many of Barcelona's amazingly-talented youngsters get shipped out on loan?


Quite a few I'd imagine. They end up playing for Barcelona B don't they?

Unless of course they're that good that they end up in the first team on a regular basis from a very young age (don't think that happens much).

The answer is the opposite; very few.

The likes of Messi, Pedro, Busqets, Iniesta, and Thiago have not spent a second on-loan at another club as far as I am aware. Barcelona B is their reserve side which is where they learn their trade.


In the interests of balance Fabregas has been on loan to Arsenal for the last 6 years...

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Hoop Blah » 09 Aug 2011 12:20

True, and they've just done the same with the guy who's gone to Chelsea.

Not to mention Pique at Utd.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by TBM » 09 Aug 2011 12:22

Hoop Blah A quick look on wiki to confirm that wasn't rubbish and I saw the following games with the B team for those Barca kids I presume you were talking about

Pedro, 55 games over a couple of years
Busquets, 32 games
Iniesta, 54 games over 2 years
Xavi, 61 games over 3 years
Valdez, 77 games over 3 years

It is of course their alternative to loaning and gives them the best of both worlds.

Barca B play in the second tier of their pyramid so it's exactly like going out on loan but they get to remain part of the Barca family and presumably train and are influenced by the ethos of the club. I'm pretty sure they can play for both teams at the same time as well.


Exactly......so really those players are getting first team football but the coaching of Barca. They dont send those players to go and play for Hercules to gain first team experience.....

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by cmonurz » 09 Aug 2011 12:23

TBM
Hoop Blah I'm with comonurz on this one.

I think too many youngsters get to this point and then don't kick on because they get snapped up by big clubs and just don't play enough first team football. I agree with the idea that training with better players and being coached by Arsenal's team of coaches has a benefit, but I don't think it's the same as playing week-in week-out for the right club.


Im not saying they shouldn't go out on loan and Arsenal do send their players out BUT they like to mould them into a future Arsenal star first before doing so......if they send Oxlade-Chamberlain to Southampton for another year then he's gonna be nearly 19 before he starts training with Arsenal, a year they've lost to get him ready for their first team.


Fair points re the training but the second part sort of adds to my point. What's wrong with being 'nearly 19' and then looking to break into the first team of a top club? Why do players need to be stars at 18 or 19? It's probably indicative of a) the price to a club of buying an already established young player and b) the end of the days of 'one club' pros, so Arsenal know that they need to develop Alex for the short to medium-term, and can't think about what sort of player they might have when he is 23 or 24.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by TBM » 09 Aug 2011 12:27

I think its just the way football is going now.....footballers are getting younger and younger, especially in England since Wayne Rooney broke through.

I hear Real Madrid have just snapped up a 7 year old Argentinian lad.....i bet you in around 9 years time he'll be making his debut


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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Svlad Cjelli » 09 Aug 2011 12:38

Ideal Sounds a bit silly to me. The kid is seven. Anything could happen.
He could develop a bad case of WoW-addiction, get fat and start posting on hobnob, there's no telling what can happen.
FFS, he's probably not even learnt how to read yet.


But how much is it costing them to have him on the books. The big clubs just harvest promising players from around the world and cast off those who don't make the grade.

And seven is, apparently, the "golden age" for youth development. Get kids into the system later than that and they've missed some part of their training.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by soggy biscuit » 09 Aug 2011 12:51

TBM I hear Real Madrid have just snapped up a 7 year old Argentinian lad.....i bet you in around 9 years time he'll be making his debut


Already lived in Madrid and played for a local team apparently. Nothing more than swapping his local team for the Madrid kids team though the original story made it sound like he was being brought over from Argentina. Though 7 is a little young to 'identify' someone as future talent.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Hoop Blah » 09 Aug 2011 13:08

TBM Exactly......so really those players are getting first team football but the coaching of Barca. They dont send those players to go and play for Hercules to gain first team experience.....


Agreed. They get to play the first team football that Walcott and the like are deprived if they move to a 'big club' too soon (admittedly they got some before they move though).

The Spanish have a good system by way of being able to do both with their B teams. It means (I think) that players can't stay and play for both and, as I said, get the best of both worlds.

Going out on loan isn't quite as good as you end up away from the club and their training etc (so lose out), don't feel quite as part of the club you go on load to (see plenty of quotes from players and managers for proof of that) and the alternative is not getting enough first team football*.

* that means playing competitive league football not whether playing for Barca B is their reserves or first team, it's proper football unlike our reserve leagues.

I'm not arguing that loans are a bad thing for these kids, but Walcott never went on loan after signing for Arsenal and I doubt Oxlade will either. IMO they end up playing too few first team games at the point where they should be learning their trade.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Hoop Blah » 09 Aug 2011 13:14

TBM I think its just the way football is going now.....footballers are getting younger and younger, especially in England since Wayne Rooney broke through.


Not sure about that. I think we see more young players making big moves (and then because of that we've seen more teenage England debuts), but not so many more that are breaking through at club level.

There's always been a string of teenagers that break into teams, even at the top level and England (Duncan Edwards, Stanley Matthews, George Best, Neil Webb closer to home etc etc). Admittedly these are top top players and you might see more average kids get games earlier.

I think the real change is the size of squads and the transfer fees involved which means the likes of Bale, Lennon, Oxlade, Walcott, Lee Martin, Gareth Barry, Shaun Allaway etc etc get snapped up earlier by bigger clubs before they've matured. They know they can give them the odd game here and there whilst still saving money on long term transfer fees and pay them more than they'd get as first team players at the likes of Reading, Ipswich or Southampton.

It's not so much they're breaking through earlier but more they make the big moves earlier.


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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by No Fixed Abode » 09 Aug 2011 18:26

No Fixed Abode Long signs for West Brom.


8)

First with the news again.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Focher » 09 Aug 2011 19:52

No Fixed Abode
No Fixed Abode Long signs for West Brom.


8)

First with the news again.


lol the man is relentless :lol:

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by soggy biscuit » 09 Aug 2011 20:12

Inter confirm they are in talks with Russian club Anzhi over a £26M transfer for Eto'o. They are being reported as offering him around £380,000 a week. :roll:

Still more Sneijder to Manchester Utd talk going on. Would love to see him play over here.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Ferris » 10 Aug 2011 16:44

Fabregas to be a Barca player by the weekend.


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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by TBM » 10 Aug 2011 21:52

Ferris Fabregas to be a Barca player by the weekend.


He could have been one last month if they weren't so tight and offered the full £40m

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by TBM » 11 Aug 2011 09:42

Ideal I don't understand Arsenal's transfer tactics.
As far as I can tell they are loaded with cash, after selling a vast number of players the last few years.
Why do they need to sell anyone again?
Should they not be buying that one last piece of the puzzle, the striker they don't have?

Are they not just reducing themselves to a farmer-club for Barcelona?


They need defenders and a keeper before getting another striker

Arsenal like to only have players at the club who are 100% committed to playing for them - if the player asks to leave then they are better selling them whilst they get good value than making them stay and losing them for nothing/little

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Starfish » 11 Aug 2011 10:27

Ideal Are they not just reducing themselves to a farmer-club for Barcelona?


And Manchester City.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Mr Angry » 11 Aug 2011 10:36

Ideal Are they not just reducing themselves to a farmer-club for Barcelona?



Shouldn't that be "feeder" club??

Or can we just put random words together to mean the same thing?

I think Arsenal are in danger of becoming a window-club for Barcelona.....

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by TBM » 11 Aug 2011 10:41

Mr Angry
Ideal Are they not just reducing themselves to a farmer-club for Barcelona?



Shouldn't that be "feeder" club??

Or can we just put random words together to mean the same thing?

I think Arsenal are in danger of becoming a window-club for Barcelona.....


Its cos of the style of football both teams play but Barca play 10x better........so the players want to go there as they wont have to change their game much and will win a lot more

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by Friday's Legacy » 11 Aug 2011 11:26

a very good question.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/ ... le/344467/

Cheaper than Andy Carroll

After the longest transfer saga in football history, Barcelona are about to get the player they want for the price they want.

A look through the Eurosport-Yahoo! archives suggests the first serious mention of Fabregas returning to Barca was in 2007 - we have been dealing with this nonsense for four years.

Despite the fact that Barcelona did not so much woo Fabregas as jump on him and start dry-humping his leg, Arsenal failed to extract a premium for their much-coveted captain.

The whole thing defies logic - the more publicly you state your desire to sign a player, the more you pay for him, right?

Apparently not. Barca are shelling out just £27m, with Fabregas himself chipping in a further £3m.

Imagine if any other club told a player: "We love you and we really want to sign you, and we have the money to meet the asking price - only we won't, and we need you to chip in to get a deal done."

And yet Fabregas has happily dipped into his own pocket to secure his move.

The words that now haunt Arsenal are these - Andy Carroll.

How on earth did Newcastle secure a bigger fee for their number nine than Arsenal have for one of the best players in the world?

ED knows it is seldom wise to compare transfer fees directly.

Carroll's price was pushed up by the fact that it was January 31, he is English, and he had little desire to leave Newcastle.

But come on. Whatever the mitigating circumstances, Andy Carroll costing more than Cesc Fabregas is not a scenario that should ever occur. Ever.

The idea that Liverpool paid for potential is undermined by the fact Carroll is only 19 months younger than Fabregas.

The Spaniard may have more miles on the clock, but ask yourself which sort of player is better equipped to withstand the ravages of time - spry, sprightly midfielders or big, bulky strikers with a history of injury problems?

It has become a bit fashionable to do Fabregas down, but ED thinks he is an extraordinary footballer. His vision and passing range are probably surpassed only by Xavi. And now Barca are going to have them both.

Ultimately, being the best team in the world gives Barcelona licence to do pretty much whatever they want.

Any player, faced with a choice of Barca and another club, would need all of milliseconds to make his selection. Who in their right mind would refuse the chance to be part of possibly the best football team ever?

Barcelona knew Fabregas would continue agitating for a move as long as it took, and that Arsene Wenger would eventually tire of having an unsettled captain.

Barca certainly haven't won any friends with the way they have pursued Fabregas, but they don't always do it like that.

Their pursuit of Alexis Sanchez was far less painful, but their negotiating stance was ruthless and relied on the player's cast-iron desire to go to the Camp Nou.

While Chelsea and Manchester City's offers spiralled over £30m, Barca stuck to their guns at £22 plus clauses - and Sanchez's insistence that he would only go to Catalonia meant Udinese eventually had to settle for much less than they could have got.

So, what now?

Assuming Pep Guardiola keeps his midfield anchor man - and he needs to given the attacking licence afforded to the full-backs - he will have no fewer than 10 high-class options battling for five attacking positions.

How about a 'front five' of Xavi, Fabregas, Sanchez, Iniesta and Messi?

With a reserve quintet of Keita, Thiago, Afellay, Pedro and Villa?

Yes, that's right. A bench featuring Spain's all-time record goalscorer (Villa), another man who started and scored in the Champions League final (Pedro), plus an established Dutch international (Afellay) and one of Europe's most highly-rated young players (Thiago).

Every great club side tends to win (at least) three European Cups in the space of six seasons.

Real Madrid did it in the 50s and at the turn of the millennium. Ajax and Bayern Munich did it in the 70s. Liverpool did it, AC Milan did it, and in May Barcelona did it.

The scary part is that, with the squad Guardiola is assembling, Barca could rule European football for another 10 years.

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Re: The Summer 2011 transfer thread

by TBM » 11 Aug 2011 12:01

Jose Enrique joins Liverpool for £6m

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