Thames Valley Royals

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

We're also talking pre 80s property boom too. Don't get me wrong, Maxwell was no saint and of course he was in it for the cash - but the business strategy simply wasn't as straightforward as "get hold of Elm Park, sell it off, do a runner"

Why not? Even back then, Elm Park was worth a lot more than Reading FC.

Didn't Maxwell even propose merging Oxford with Derby at one stage. There's no way that could ever be anything but as asset strip.

[Red]

Yeh I guess so. Not sure why I'm sticking up for MaxweLOL here anyway.

[Fox Talbot]

I think Maxwell forced the sale of an Oxford player (Hebberd?) to Derby - which he also owned - and this caused the resignation of manager Lawrenson who went on to join the BBC.

It also caused the FL to put in rules about not having a controlling interest in more than one club. Maxwell at one point controlled Oxford, Derby and had significant shareholdings in Reading and I believe Watford.

[Mr Angry]

I think Maxwell forced the sale of an Oxford player (Hebberd?) to Derby - which he also owned - and this caused the resignation of manager Lawrenson who went on to join the BBC.

It also caused the FL to put in rules about not having a controlling interest in more than one club. Maxwell at one point controlled Oxford, Derby and had significant shareholdings in Reading and I believe Watford.

Dean Saunders iirc.

Lawrensen didn't resign over the matter; he was so vocal in his opposition to the transfer, that Maxwell's son (can't remember which) who had taken over as Oxford Chairman after the bouncing Czech went to Derby as Chairman, sacked him.

[Fox Talbot]

I think Maxwell forced the sale of an Oxford player (Hebberd?) to Derby - which he also owned - and this caused the resignation of manager Lawrenson who went on to join the BBC.

It also caused the FL to put in rules about not having a controlling interest in more than one club. Maxwell at one point controlled Oxford, Derby and had significant shareholdings in Reading and I believe Watford.

Dean Saunders iirc.

Lawrensen didn't resign over the matter; he was so vocal in his opposition to the transfer, that Maxwell's son (can't remember which) who had taken over as Oxford Chairman after the bouncing Czech went to Derby as Chairman, sacked him.

Fair play to your recall. It would have been Kevin, who's still in bother with some authorities according to a recent Private Eye.

[West Stand Man]

The sales pitch was a merger that would result in the new club playing in Oxford for a while so that new stadium could be built in or near Didcot. I think most of us knew that the probability was that the new stadium would be built near Oxford - they were higher up the league than us at the time. It was also pretty obvious that the merger was all about money and freeing up assets to be stripped so that the respective chairmen could bank some cash. I was almost seduced by the idea of a super new stadium and a mega club forming. It didn't take long to realise that it was not going to happen and that it meant the end of RFC with no tangible replacement of any meaning at all.

Thankfully it died and we are now where we are.

So, to the halfwit who thinks that Waller's time was better than now - get real.

[Z175]

I agree with the above points that pre-AFC Wimbledon setting up a new club was less realisable.

Until that point fans were largely disenfranchised and taken for granted. Since the 90s football has become an expensive consumer product, but 1983 was a time when fans interests, and indeed safetly, were not a priority,

Look at Brighton's demolition of the Goldstone, even in 1997 their Chairman Bill Archer made a packet and they were homeless until last week! In fact Archer's business techniques were similar to Maxwell. He bought companies cheaply, ran them like a dictator, piled them with debt and sold them for a lot. All his ventures virtually went bankrupt with investors losing fortunes while he made 100s of millions.

So it really could have happened to us.

Yet I don't think the ground sale was Maxwell's only motive. Selling Elm Park made this a risk free deal, but I think he genuinely belived Thames Valley Royals could have become a top flight franchise, like how in rugby London Irish have become so at a purpose built out of town stadium representing the Thames Valley region.

But what wasn't apparent in the 1980s was the growth of the M4 corridor into Britains's silicon valley. Reading is now a rich place in a highly populated area. Premiership football brings 25k sell out crowds to Reading alone. Back in 1983 with Reading's paltry crowds, this would have seemed impossible without some forward thinking. So it was the country that sold out, not the club. The replacement of the breweries and biscuit factories with subsidiaries doing the bidding of Microsoft, HP and Oracle changed the face of the area and have allowed us to keep to the traditions of the independent Reading Football Club of 1871.

[friday fan]

I remember living through that and as a die hard supporter was so scared we'd go out of business. My mum had worked for Roy Tranter (one of the directors) and the evening post as I recall had the headlines on the front page. My gran was best friends with Alan Sedunary's parents who lived a few doors down and I remember them coming in and talking like it was the end of the world. Fortunately it didn't happen but there was an element in the town that didn't want the football club. I praise Roger Smee for his actions as we could have gone out of business and the rest is history with the Auto Trader king arriving as the saviour.

Even though Elm Park was a shit hole I still miss it and when I pass by I wonder if the residents hear the chants of the ghosts of the past, certainly some history at that ground as we are quite an old club. Perhaps one of the stat posters like snowball could confirm but I think we would be the oldest club to have played in the premier league

[Fox Talbot]

Sheff Weds are older than us.
Stoke claim they are older but have not been in continuous existence.
Kilmarnock are older (SPL).

[East Grinstead Royal]

The structure of professional football in this country is crazy with most clubs in the 5th tier now professional and even at some lower levels whereas in most leading European countries fully professional stops after the first or second tier.

Not sure I agree. The reason there are around 120 professional clubs in England alone is that they all generate enough interest, support and therefore cash to be able to operate on that basis. Many sail close to the wind, but if you compare crowds in the Championship, Leagues 1 and 2 and the Conference with the equivalent leagues elsewhere - well, there is no comparison! It's not just the Premier League that is (arguably) the best league in the world, but the entire structure of the English pyramid is (undoubtedly) the best in the world.

Returning, to the subject of TVR, whoever said that the name was to change to TVU was right. I've always thought (I wasn't living in the area then, so I can't be sure) that that simple change swayed a lot of Reading supporters. It suddenly became a little more obvious that this wan't a merger at all.

Re the Bristol clubs, I remember 20+ years ago, the then chairman of Bristol City being asked how he would feel about a merger with Rovers. He liked the idea, and to show how magnanimous he would be if it came about, he promised that neither club would have to lose its heritage. It would take the first half of Bristol Rovers' name, the second half of City's. It would play in City's red shirts and Rovers' white shorts. And as City's ground was clearly bigger and better than Rovers', the club would generously agree to make Ashton Gate available for the new club.

[Terminal Boardom]

Sheff Weds are older than us.
Stoke claim they are older but have not been in continuous existence.
Kilmarnock are older (SPL).

And didn't Notts County play in the Prem in the early days? Only Chesterfield are older and have yet to play in the top flight in any guise. Which is why we are the oldest league club south of the River Trent.

[Wax Jacket]

Notts County in 91-92, last season of old D1

if the merger had gone ahead imagine where Wokingham Town might've ended up

[Platypuss]

Sheff Weds are older than us.
Stoke claim they are older but have not been in continuous existence.
Kilmarnock are older (SPL).

And didn't Notts County play in the Prem in the early days? Only Chesterfield are older and have yet to play in the top flight in any guise. Which is why we are the oldest league club south of the River Trent.

South of the banks of the Trent - Forest and County are on opposite sides of the river after all.

[Riseley]

We had a protest march to Elm Park on Millwall match day with a starting point of St Marys Butts. Maxwell had the balls to turn up in his Rolls Royce to try to explain what a wonderful idea the demise of RFC was. He had to beat a hasty retreat after a short time. We then proceeded to the cathedral along Oxford Road. Our match day opponents supporters at the rear insulting passing black people and causing general mayhem. Youngsters today have no idea what my biscuitmen generation did for for them. Uncle Albert mode off.

[Red]

Riseley! Blast from the past.

How's it going champ?

[SouthDownsRoyal]

cant see us merging with oxford to be honest. but if we did would we play at KASSAM?

[Terminal Boardom]

Sheff Weds are older than us.
Stoke claim they are older but have not been in continuous existence.
Kilmarnock are older (SPL).

And didn't Notts County play in the Prem in the early days? Only Chesterfield are older and have yet to play in the top flight in any guise. Which is why we are the oldest league club south of the River Trent.

South of the banks of the Trent - Forest and County are on opposite sides of the river after all.

This is true and we are older than the florists.

[West Stand Man]

cant see us merging with oxford to be honest. but if we did would we play at KASSAM?

Hallo. Planet Earth calling. Are you actually following this story?

[who are ya?]

Hallo. Planet Earth calling. Are you actually following this story?

[Forbury Lion]

I would have probably started going to the Speedway instead.