"Troubled times at Forest"

[rhroyal]

Reading this BBC piece, their similarities with us are quite easy to see. Glad that we have a manager who never moans about it, just knuckles down and does the best he can. Then again, I doubt we put him under as much pressure as Forest fans do their managers.

I don't believe a football manager can be judged after 112 days and 10 league games. But a manager can assess the merits of his chairman after that period.

And Steve McClaren felt the glossy brochure waved in front of him in June had become decidedly moth-eaten three months later. We'll never know what exactly was discussed at that recruitment meeting, but soon we had a chasm in perception of just how Nottingham Forest could prosper - and that chasm separated the two most important people at the club.

McClaren had dropped enough hints about his disaffection lately and I understand he was going to resign after the Birmingham match at the weekend whatever the result.

He'd been knocked back too often on deals for players on loan after the penny had dropped with him that there wasn't a great deal of money available for transfers.

He'd seen Sven-Goran Eriksson spend around £15m on new recruits at Leicester and Sam Allardyce building a sizeable squad at West Ham in their own bids for Championship promotion.

A proud man, aware that his reputation was vulnerable on returning to English football, McClaren saw no point in the slow death of false dawns and bromides to the media about rebuilding, patience and the long haul.

Once his chairman started talking about the Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules that are due to come into effect next season in Forest's division, McClaren knew that the heady days of June, when the club were dreaming about getting back into the Premier League at the first attempt, had shrivelled into autumnal anti-climax.

It's to his credit that he hasn't taken a penny in pay-off, aware that he had found the experience at a lower level more daunting than he had anticipated. He just couldn't impose the right tactical formula on his team - and he was surprised that some of his players didn't share his zeal for hard daily shifts on the training ground, where he could challenge them.

McClaren recently compared the tactical maturity and eloquence of Dutch and German players with their English counterparts, and sadly said that many English players didn't want to be stretched mentally.

The whole experience proved a rude awakening. It will be a surprise if he has a future in English football over the next few years. There is too much baggage, too many preconceptions about him.

As for Nigel Doughty, who is stepping down as chairman, I wonder if he will want to stay on as owner in the long term. A committed, lifelong Forest supporter, he has sunk £70m of his own money into Forest in his decade as chairman, but still the club can't return to the Premier League, 12 years since they last played in the top flight. Surely no one would blame him if he walked away.

But if he does stay, I understand that the financial restrictions will be daunting. Instead of allowing himself to be persuaded to dip into the coffers at times when his manager is really pushing for a player, the plan is to give the new boss a sum per season that will cover transfers and loan deals - and that will be that. The cloth at Forest will be cut even more austerely.


So that prospect will not appeal to any of the big names who are regularly in the frame when such a vacancy appears.

Then there is the uncertainty whether the owner will still be in charge next season. Why would that scenario entice a Martin O'Neill, a Roy Keane or an Alan Curbishley?

I believe Forest will cast their net more realistically, for a manager who knows all about the grind of coping in the lower divisions and won't be too impatient. Someone like Sean O'Driscoll or Mark Robins would suit the scaled-down vision of Nigel Doughty after his vanity appointment in June failed.

At least Doughty had the good grace to acknowledge his mistake in appointing McClaren one day after he had sacked Billy Davies, the opinionated little Glaswegian battler who had taken Forest to two successive play-off semi-finals.

Forest overachieved under Davies, as he kept warning that the club needed, in his words, "two or three stellar signings". Today Davies can feel vindicated about his constant warnings about the necessity for fresh, proven players.

I wonder if he would have been sacked if McClaren had not been available? We will never know. And I wonder if the chairman would ever admit that? Mr Doughty is not one for regular dialogue with the media, so we'll just have to draw our own conclusions.

So the verdict on the McClaren regime will be wrong place, wrong time, wrong manager. But at least he fell on his sword with dignity, avoiding a protracted, messy saga.

Is it too much to hope that the Forest players will now take a forensic look at themselves, ask if they could have done more for their manager and wonder just why they're not plying their trades in the top flight?

Perhaps, as McClaren suspected, they're just not good enough.

A lot has changed in football since 1999, but Nottingham Forest FC still flatter to deceive. Spare us the nonsense about it being "a massive club" when the new manager is appointed and poses with the obligatory scarf on the centre circle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15148244.stm

[Alan Partridge]

Forest spent an absolute load while Davies was their manager. Davies was in the press nearly every day saying we need 3 new players and they will cost serious money etc, but over the time he was there he spent serious cash every window.

In Summer of 2008 Forest bought Joe Garner for £1.1million, Rob Earnshaw for £2.7million as well as Moussi on an undisclosed, while selling Grant Holt for £170k.

in 2009, Paul Anderson for £250k, David McGoldrick for well over £1million, Dexter Blackstock for £1million, Lee Camp was undisclosed but I doubt he was anything less than £500k, Chris Gunter £1.75million and Paul McKenna for £750k

Can only imagine the wages this lot were on during that time.

WHo else in the league spent money like this?!!! And every day again you'd see Davies complaining about the size and quality of his squad. Bloke was an absolute belmont and the Forest fans shouldn't be questioning their board but how the money was spent and who left to make way for them.

Garner for over £1million and Holt out for £170k ALOL.

[Svlad Cjelli]

TBH their similarities with us aren't quite easy easy to see to me. Please enlighten me.

[Row Z Royal]

TBH their similarities with us aren't quite easy easy to see to me. Please enlighten me.

I thought the point was that there aren't any/many similarities.

[roadrunner]

TBH their similarities with us aren't quite easy easy to see to me. Please enlighten me.

I thought the point was that there aren't any/many similarities.

Reading this BBC piece, their similarities with us are quite easy to see.

Maybe he's being ironic.

[TFF]

TBH their similarities with us aren't quite easy easy to see to me. Please enlighten me.

Webb, Shorey, Tyson. Then I'm struggling.

[roadrunner]

It's obviously the size of both our trophy cabinets. You lot are slacking.

[Ian Royal]

Forest spent an absolute load while Davies was their manager. Davies was in the press nearly every day saying we need 3 new players and they will cost serious money etc, but over the time he was there he spent serious cash every window.

In Summer of 2008 Forest bought Joe Garner for £1.1million, Rob Earnshaw for £2.7million as well as Moussi on an undisclosed, while selling Grant Holt for £170k.

in 2009, Paul Anderson for £250k, David McGoldrick for well over £1million, Dexter Blackstock for £1million, Lee Camp was undisclosed but I doubt he was anything less than £500k, Chris Gunter £1.75million and Paul McKenna for £750k

Can only imagine the wages this lot were on during that time.

WHo else in the league spent money like this?!!! And every day again you'd see Davies complaining about the size and quality of his squad. Bloke was an absolute belmont and the Forest fans shouldn't be questioning their board but how the money was spent and who left to make way for them.

Garner for over £1million and Holt out for £170k ALOL.

Always thought Davies mouthing off about not having a good enough team contributed to themm choking at the end of the season and failing in the play offs. Can't help thinking it might be cause by his expereince getting absolutely murdered with Derby after a promotion they weren't really good enough for.

[paultheroyal]

Roy Keane on his way there.

[PEARCEY]

I can't believe Billy Davies spent nearly £3 million on Earnshaw. Madness.

[roadrunner]

I can't believe Billy Davies spent nearly £3 million on Earnshaw. Madness.

A few clubs have.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I can't believe Billy Davies spent nearly £3 million on Earnshaw. Madness.

A few clubs have.

Since leaving Cardiff City in 2004, Earnshaw's transfer fees totalled £12,650,000.

[Simon's Church]

Roy Keane on his way there.

I really hope this is true.

[roadrunner]

Roy Keane on his way there.

I really hope this is true.

Forest don't help themselves at all do they?

[Wycombe Royal]

Roy Keane on his way there.

I really hope this is true.

Forest don't help themselves at all do they?

He'd sort out the mess in the short term, but is not a long term fix.

[Jackson Corner]

Forest spent an absolute load while Davies was their manager. Davies was in the press nearly every day saying we need 3 new players and they will cost serious money etc, but over the time he was there he spent serious cash every window.

In Summer of 2008 Forest bought Joe Garner for £1.1million, Rob Earnshaw for £2.7million as well as Moussi on an undisclosed, while selling Grant Holt for £170k.

in 2009, Paul Anderson for £250k, David McGoldrick for well over £1million, Dexter Blackstock for £1million, Lee Camp was undisclosed but I doubt he was anything less than £500k, Chris Gunter £1.75million and Paul McKenna for £750k

Can only imagine the wages this lot were on during that time.

WHo else in the league spent money like this?!!! And every day again you'd see Davies complaining about the size and quality of his squad. Bloke was an absolute belmont and the Forest fans shouldn't be questioning their board but how the money was spent and who left to make way for them.

Garner for over £1million and Holt out for £170k ALOL.

Some big name loan signings Nicky Shorey, Konchelsky Andy Ried off the top of my head. These must have been on big wages.
Davies was always moaning but I thought he had good support from the board. Forest don't own the City ground. The only assits are the players and the training ground. The chairman has bank rolled them to the tune of ten million a season so you would wonder who would want to buy Forest? In football be carefull what you wish for.

[Barry the bird boggler]

I note the article says that the Championship will be hit by the Finacial Fair Play rules next season. Can any one confirm what has been finally agreed so we can all pick out the loopholes.

[ZacNaloen]

Yes it has been agreed

[FiNeRaIn]

I note the article says that the Championship will be hit by the Finacial Fair Play rules next season. Can any one confirm what has been finally agreed so we can all pick out the loopholes.

Yes it has been agreed

[Wycombe Royal]

the club were dreaming about getting back into the Premier League at the first attempt

"At the first attempt", well, unless they were relegated just last year, this is hardly their first attempt, is it?
Author of the article needs to use Wikipedia to read up on his facts before typing.

Corrected for you.