Any point taking Rooney?

[Tredder]

I would add, what's the point of coming back for 1 maybe 2 games, we get beat in the 2nd round or the QF's, i would stay at home, feet up and drink some cold beers.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Thank god none of you are near the England management, some horrific opinions. We play pub teams in the group stages .......

This is the Eruos, not the World Cup. There's hardly any dead wood in the group stages.

We had the easiest group in the World Cup and we nearly messed it up.

Care to name the last team to win a Tournament in the Group Stages? We could win all 3 10-0, lose the next and youve failed.

Rooney flopped last time in 2010, and was injured on 06. Thats it really. England have next to no chance of winning the Tournament without Rooney playing his A game from the 1/4s onwards. Sod Greece, I couldn't think or a worse comparison to the England team.

[KDRF]

Torres will come good again and then Sturridge will be battling Kalou for 4th strikers spot at Chelski so forget about him.
If you didnt take Rooney you essentially think we won't get through the group stages so we might as well not bother going in general. Bent cause he can actually score, Carroll cause Capello will make some bullshit excuse about needing a target man, Welbeck because he's actually decent, and Rooney because its Rooney. Play Bent by himself up front with either Lamps or Gerrard behind him, then when/if we get thru the group stage play Rooney if theres a weak link not playing well, if theres not, then he doesnt get in the team, don't change a winning team. Simple.

[Hoop Blah]

Totally agree on a fresh generation of fearless players giving us a more upbeat suqad and potentially a better chance of doing well. Some of them aren't ready yet though, but if we can get the balance right then we'll have a chance.

They'll only get ready by playing, though.

Most of those listed need to prove themselves at top end higher pressure Premiership level and as week-in week-out performers not just flavours of the month. Those that played at the U21s, Smalling and Jones apart, didn't do themselves any favours really and (as much as I put a lot of the blame on Pearce for that) to chuck them into the full side just because we want all this young blood would probably be counter productive.

I don't doubt they need to play, but at what level and in what side is the debate.

[Barry the bird boggler]

So now, basically, at least it won't matter when he picks up that inevitable injury in ManUre's season run in that would keep him out for a month or two anyway.

[Seal]

Funny thing is even on the rare occasions Finerain may have a point, he ruins it with unnecessary slandering of others.

Lest I remind Finerain of our glorious Euros record:-

1964 - DNQ
1968 - 3rd
1972 - DNQ
1976 - DNQ
1980 - First round
1984 - DNQ
1988 - First round
1992 - First round
1996 - Semi Final
2000 - First round
2004 - Quarter Final
2008 - DNQ

Hardly suggests we can afford to take the group stages lightly.

[Stranded]

Another thing to take into account, if Man Utd don't make either the FA Cup final or Champions League - Rooney will not play a game from the 13th May to the 18th June - whilst you want players to be rested, that's a long gap not to play competitive football and then step straight in to a knock out game.

[who are ya?]

You know what, I never knew you had to have a 'glorious' record to win a tournament

[papereyes]

Funny thing is even on the rare occasions Finerain may have a point, he ruins it with unnecessary slandering of others.

Lest I remind Finerain of our glorious Euros record:-

1964 - DNQ
1968 - 3rd
1972 - DNQ
1976 - DNQ
1980 - First round
1984 - DNQ
1988 - First round
1992 - DNQ
1996 - Semi Final
2000 - First round
2004 - Quarter Final
2008 - DNQ

Hardly suggests we can afford to take the group stages lightly.

Qualified for 1992, went out in group stage (same as 1988)?

[Seal]

Oops apologies! Edited...but you get the principle!

[No Fixed Abode]

Good to see SFs obsession with me continues.

[Ian Royal]

I think we're likely to be a better, more creative and more dangerous team without him.

Other teams know that he's so important to us that we play everything through him - and so they not only mark him out of the game but do everything to antagonise him.

We now have the chance to try to develop other options where the threat is the whole team, not just him.

This is exactly it. England fail because at least partly because we think a great individual beats a good team. It doesn't. Take him and when we squeeze through the groups we'll be utterly reliant and fixated on him solving all our woes and beating the good teams on his own.

It simply won't happen. He may be the best player we have and genuinely world class, but he works for Utd because he's in a team that works as a team. He doesn't work for England because it's a bunch of individuals where him and one or two others are expected to win the game o ntheir own.

Don't tyake him and we've a chance of trying to actually build a competent, balanced and committed team. We've got more chance of winning the Greece way, than by Rooney beating Europe's best on his own.

[postwhisperer]

i would put defoe and crouch up front. both proven time and time again to be the answer. crouch goalscoring record proves it!

[Ian Royal]

This is the Eruos, not the World Cup. There's hardly any dead wood in the group stages.

We had the easiest group in the World Cup and we nearly messed it up.

Care to name the last team to win a Tournament in the Group Stages? We could win all 3 10-0, lose the next and youve failed.

I can name the teams that have won it by failing in the Group Stages.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Given that we are not exactly overblessed with talent up front, it's kind of hard to see how picking the current 5th choice striker for the squad ahead of Rooney would be a good move.

That other striker probably wouldn't play anyway barring injuries, and not taking him would leave us with a weaker team if we got out of the group.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Rooney "devastated" by euro suspension.

Action = consequence. Learning curve for him?

Not really - his losses of temper aren't a conscious thing he can control. They just happen when he gets wound up and are a part of him.

[FiNeRaIn]

Agreed, its part of who he is, losing your temper and lashing out is a disease. Its not simply a case of you or I sat there and making a decision..." should I kick this person out of frustration" and taking some time to think it over, its simply an instinct and a natural reaction however sorry he is after. Same way a female bears instinct is to protect her cubs, a great white shark occasionally takes a bite out of a person and realises its bitten something which isn't a seal, there is no apologising after because the damage is done. Rooneys team-mates need to help his disease by not playing crap and getting on the back foot and feeding him scraps, give him good quick early ball and the beast will remain tame. His team-mates shouldn't be on the back foot against Montenegro because they are pants, as a result he's frustrated. Why is no one blaming them?

[Ian Royal]

Agreed, its part of who he is, losing your temper and lashing out is a disease. Its not simply a case of you or I sat there and making a decision..." should I kick this person out of frustration" and taking some time to think it over, its simply an instinct and a natural reaction however sorry he is after. Same way a female bears instinct is to protect her cubs, a great white shark occasionally takes a bite out of a person and realises its bitten something which isn't a seal, there is no apologising after because the damage is done. Rooneys team-mates need to help his disease by not playing crap and getting on the back foot and feeding him scraps, give him good quick early ball and the beast will remain tame. His team-mates shouldn't be on the back foot against Montenegro because they are pants, as a result he's frustrated. Why is no one blaming them?

The thing about having a sense of self and being conciously aware, is that it allows you to surpress your baser natural instincts. That Rooney isn't capable of that often enough is not his team mates' fault.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The problem with Rooney is that the whole world of football knows it' something he can't control, and so he is deliberately targeted and systematically wound up by opponents.



So it's a perennial weakness. What the ratio between being an inspirational match-winner and being a match-losing liability is down to individual interpretation.

[Seal]

Saw a really interesting talk about this just last week by Dr Steve Peters, a psychiatrist who worked with the British Cycling team prior to Beijing. What he specialises in is controlling the impulsive and emotional elements of the brain and applying to sporting performance.

He made the point that one's animal instincts (such as anger, jealously, sexual desire, hunger etc) can be controlled, but they can't be switched off. So he could work with Rooney to control his temper, but that would always be a fuse that could eventually below.

Also if you complete take away that rage do you lesson the player?

Very similar to the speaker who followed Dr Peters on stage, a certain Mr R Keane, who's first comment was that he could have done with meeting Mr Peters 15 years ago!