Back from the game - Derby

[melonhead]

In my book a defender first and foremost should be able to defend. It's all very nice if he can take free-kicks too, but if he's not a good enough defender then he shouldn't be playing no matter what else he can do.

Someone else in the team can take free-kicks, but no-one else can in the team can cover for him defensively.

We are seemingly lacking free-kick takers though. Particularly right-footed ones. The one at the end in stoppage time was crying out for a bit of quality. Pity we couldn't have got Harte on just for that, as Hunt's effort was woeful. Can't recall ever seeing Church take a corner before and he had a run of three or four last night.

youve simply forgotten them(admittedly cos they were as poor/average as last nights) but he has taken them

[melonhead]

JM’s wallet got us into that mess at the back, it should only be fair that his wallet gets us out of it, if need be.

actually - the mess comes from the complete rebuild of the defence was brought about by the letting go of all our CBs bar pearce, which was brought about cos ivar got too old, and the managment decided (correctly)mills wasnt worth paying daft money to to keep, and cos his head was turned by leicesters daft offers.

however, we brought in gorkss who looks miles better than mills, and meanwhile the FBs look to improve with every game.

not sure how any of that is JM or his wallets "fault"

[Hoop Blah]

Can anyone from Y25/Y26 shed any light on what happened at the near post for Derby's 1st goal last night. All I could see was the ball going in and both Pearce and Gorkss going toward it (with a couple of Derby players) then somehow it gets headed across our box for an easy tap in with all 4 lying on the floor.

I was in the North Stand so didn't get a great view at the time and can't make it out on SSN despite rewinding several times.

It was a training ground corner from Derby that was, to be fair to them, well executed.

Their two big lads, or at least those that were given to Pearce and Gorkss to mark, made early runs across the goal, taking both our centre backs with them and leaving the back post pretty exposed. I think there was a flick to the back involved but it may have been delivered straight to the far post, I didn't really twig which at the time, where they'd managed to get a couple of unmarked players.

I read something about it being Mills area of the pitch earlier in the thread but that's harsh on him. If he was detailed to mark someone else then that wasn't his area to defend.

[melonhead]

that may have been my description of both goals.
not slagging him.thought he played well, just that both goals were from our LB area.
and yes, if he was marking someone else it s harsh(i thought he was close to the ball like teh 2nd but could easily be misremembering)
personally i think if we had a keeper who could move off his goal line it wouldnt be a problem.......

[FiNeRaIn]

Can anyone from Y25/Y26 shed any light on what happened at the near post for Derby's 1st goal last night. All I could see was the ball going in and both Pearce and Gorkss going toward it (with a couple of Derby players) then somehow it gets headed across our box for an easy tap in with all 4 lying on the floor.

I was in the North Stand so didn't get a great view at the time and can't make it out on SSN despite rewinding several times.

It was a training ground corner from Derby that was, to be fair to them, well executed.

Their two big lads, or at least those that were given to Pearce and Gorkss to mark, made early runs across the goal, taking both our centre backs with them and leaving the back post pretty exposed. I think there was a flick to the back involved but it may have been delivered straight to the far post, I didn't really twig which at the time, where they'd managed to get a couple of unmarked players.

I read something about it being Mills area of the pitch earlier in the thread but that's harsh on him. If he was detailed to mark someone else then that wasn't his area to defend.

It wasn't a corner, it was a silly free kick given about 25 years out by the byline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Rt-OH9Fwc use high def and full screen

Why is our left back stood outside the penalty area instead of the back post?

Its wasn't entirely his fault either, lege and one of the centre backs in no mans land.

[If you still hate Futcher]

Can anyone from Y25/Y26 shed any light on what happened at the near post for Derby's 1st goal last night. All I could see was the ball going in and both Pearce and Gorkss going toward it (with a couple of Derby players) then somehow it gets headed across our box for an easy tap in with all 4 lying on the floor.

I was in the North Stand so didn't get a great view at the time and can't make it out on SSN despite rewinding several times.

It was a training ground corner from Derby that was, to be fair to them, well executed.

Their two big lads, or at least those that were given to Pearce and Gorkss to mark, made early runs across the goal, taking both our centre backs with them and leaving the back post pretty exposed. I think there was a flick to the back involved but it may have been delivered straight to the far post, I didn't really twig which at the time, where they'd managed to get a couple of unmarked players.

It was a flick on but I was wondering more about what happened in the scrum between the 4 of them and who it came off

I read something about it being Mills area of the pitch earlier in the thread but that's harsh on him. If he was detailed to mark someone else then that wasn't his area to defend.

This absolutely - you can see on SSN that Mills is nowhere near that area of the pitch so was probably marking someone elsewhere. The 2 players we did have there were Legs and A.N.Other (Jem?) but their lack of reaction to the flick was noticeable.

[FiNeRaIn]

Watch the clip I just posted Futcher.

[manny96]

It really wasn't a free kick either. A poor decision there.

[If you still hate Futcher]

Watch the clip I just posted Futcher.

Just have - still can't really make out the near post scrum but it's Legs who loses the scorer with HRK doing an equally poor marking job on his man.

Mills is on the edge with their no. 23

It really wasn't a free kick either. A poor decision there.

Agreed - there a number of, shall we say, quirky decisions for throws, corners and free-kicks where the officials seemed to be using some sort of tally system to decide which way to give it.

IIRC the throw they scored their second from should've been ours too

[Hoop Blah]

It wasn't a corner, it was a silly free kick given about 25 years out by the byline.

Oh yeah, good point. Same difference though, set piece from out wide with marking duties set out in advance.

For the record, it really shouldn't have been a free kick and their player clearly handballed it as he got it under control and before he was fouled.

Why is our left back stood outside the penalty area instead of the back post?

Its wasn't entirely his fault either, lege and one of the centre backs in no mans land.

Why? Because he's marking the man/space that's been allocated to him because there are other players who are better in the air than him and so defending the areas where that's more important. Just because he plays left back it doesn't mean he has to defend over there come what may.

[Woodcote Royal]

It wasn't a corner, it was a silly free kick given about 25 years out by the byline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Rt-OH9Fwc use high def and full screen

Why is our left back stood outside the penalty area instead of the back post?

How many teams do you see defending a free kick 25 yards out having a defender on the back post and therefore playing the entire opposition on side

[FiNeRaIn]

You don't see anyone starting on the back post, but you have people following in marking people running there....where the danger is. Please don't make silly assumptions like im suggesting they start there. Defenders...defend. Whats the point in one of them being 25 yards out ffs? Im not saying its entirely his fault, if cummings is doing the same on the other side...thats also ridiculous. It makes no sense for your defenders not to be in the box( obviously not playing people onside) or running in there when you are defending a dangerous free kick.

Off out, ill resume this later.

[Hoop Blah]

So if you had 9 outfield players better in the air than your left back you'd still want him sitting under a lofted ball to the back post and defending against one of the oppositions best headers of the ball?

Seems a bit odd.

I remember a time when Ashley Cole used to be pushed upfront when they (can't remember if it was Chelsea or England) were defending set pieces so they could use him on the break and have someone better in the air defending.

[Woodcote Royal]

You don't see anyone starting on the back post, but you have people following in marking people running there....where the danger is. Please don't make silly assumptions like im suggesting they start there. Defenders...defend. Whats the point in one of them being 25 yards out ffs? Im not saying its entirely his fault, if cummings is doing the same on the other side...thats also ridiculous. It makes no sense for your defenders not to be in the box( obviously not playing people onside) or running in there when you are defending a dangerous free kick.

If you're off to buy a spade don't bother the old ones more than good enough

So, if you agree that it would have been highly irregular for anyone to stand on the back post when the kick was being taken when should he have gone there?

This may come as a shock but most players are given someone to mark in these situations. Are you saying he should have left this player unmarked if nessessary and headed for the back stick regardless as soon as the ball was on it's way?

No wonder football makes you suicidal

[Ian Royal]

You don't see anyone starting on the back post, but you have people following in marking people running there....where the danger is. Please don't make silly assumptions like im suggesting they start there. Defenders...defend. Whats the point in one of them being 25 yards out ffs? Im not saying its entirely his fault, if cummings is doing the same on the other side...thats also ridiculous. It makes no sense for your defenders not to be in the box( obviously not playing people onside) or running in there when you are defending a dangerous free kick.

Off out, ill resume this later.

Fundamental lack of understand on display right here. Players have duties at set pieces depending on what the manager has asked them to do. This is why you'll quite often see a Centreback picking up a centreback rather than a striker, or a striker picking up a dangerous attacker rather than a defender. They don't defend where you think they should just because they play in a particular position.

McDermott, Gibbs & Co know rather more about what's supposed to happen on a footbal pitch than you.

[Stranded]

He's right though, we concede goals for fun and really struggle to create most of the time. Oh and can we PLEASE get harte back in the team....Mills is really, really poor. Set pieces are terrible , both goals conceded were his side and his passing and awareness 90% of the time is terrible.

Positives were Alfie's goals, looks a very good buy.

If we concede goals for fun but struggle to create, how is our GD +1 at the moment?

[Ian Royal]

He's right though, we concede goals for fun and really struggle to create most of the time. Oh and can we PLEASE get harte back in the team....Mills is really, really poor. Set pieces are terrible , both goals conceded were his side and his passing and awareness 90% of the time is terrible.

Positives were Alfie's goals, looks a very good buy.

If we concede goals for fun but struggle to create, how is our GD +1 at the moment?

And how did we just go 374 minutes without conceeding, up until Derby's goal?

[PieEater]

At the time I thought it was a flick on from Pearce, but I can't tell from that replay clip who it is.

[St Pauli]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but a big plus from last night was the reaction of Y26/25 to being told to sit down by the stewards: 'We pay your wages, we'll do what we like.'

[RoyalBlue]

He's right though, we concede goals for fun and really struggle to create most of the time. Oh and can we PLEASE get harte back in the team....Mills is really, really poor. Set pieces are terrible , both goals conceded were his side and his passing and awareness 90% of the time is terrible.

.

Have people already forgotten just how bad the geriatric Harte can be? Even his set piece delivery had deteriorated significantly (although I would have still taken a gamble on him towards the end of the game and brought him on for the free kick just outside their box). Yes, Mills isn't the finished article yet. However, at least we now have two full backs who can get forward (and more importantly back again) with pace and energy. His passing isn't that bad and IMO his set piece delivery (particularly corners) is every bit as good as Harte's had become towards the end of last and start of this season. The Derby player wouldn't have had to out-physical Harte for their second because he would have got completely ahead of him by the time the ball arrived!

Really can't understand all the stick that Church is coming in for either (and I have been very critical of him in the past). Worked hard, showed good movement off the ball and awareness when on it, together with some lovely first time passes. He and Alfie linked up really well.