NO LONGER A RUMOUR - Karl Sheppard

[melonhead]

surely fae, halford, keown, ferdinand et al had massive expectations, and cost,
and failed all utterly
doyle, long, hunt werent expected to do much, and did way more than can be expected, and cost nuffink.

low cost nobodies always expected to do oxf*rd all, so if even 1 or two come god thats a massive exceeding of expectation
high cost proven players all expected to do alot, so even if they are average theyll be seen as failures

or am i missing summat




lol at sodje- though i guess no one expected much, and not much is what we got

[Hoop Blah]

That's why I included Sodje. It's debatable whether he was a real failure or if he just did what we asked of him, be there in case we were desperate! I suppose the same could be said of Bennett too, although in an ideal world I'd like to see measure success because most of our buys ultimately progressed into the first team.

Unless these cheap gambles are only brought in to make up the numbers in training and they're not even intended to be part of match day squads and play the odd game then their failures really.

Yes, the ones you listed were failures, but they're more the exception than the rule. For the gambles I reckon there are only 2 or 3 out of 20 odd we've signed since Doyle and Long that've turned out to be successes.

Out of a probably similar number of 'experienced' signings (20 odd) I'd say we must've had at least a dozen successes (Makin, Gunnarsson, De la Cruz, Armstrong, Griffin, Harte, Legiertwood, Gorkss, Mills, McAnuff, Oster, Tabb, Hunt, Duberry, Rosenoir, Howard). Again, some of those might be debatable as successes, but they've all played significant roles for the first team and done ok. They aren't all Murtys, Doyles or Sidwells admittedly, but their aren't rank failures (I'd probably list the likes of Halford, Fae, Halls, Rasiak as failures).

[melonhead]

agree with all of that

but the low cost gambles were all expected to do nothing, and cost little
whereas the others were all expected to do alot, did nothing and cost alot


so im still not sure about :

think that as long as you take the success to be relative to the expectations then the success rate is massively higher

[Hoop Blah]

If you don't expect them to do anything (and by anything I mean even get in squads and look like they're going to be able to play for the first team) why wold you sign them?

Realistically the likes of Sodje and Makin were signed to be immediate back up to the players in the first 11. The likes of Bozanic, Manset, Baseya, Valisilev and the two Williams were bought to develop into first team players. I can't imagine the idea was to bring them in, pay them for 3 years and then let them go without ever playing for the club.

[winchester_royal]

I'm confused though, how do you know we don't expect much from this guy?

He's a free transfer because he was at the end of his contract, not because he's shit, and it's not like we're the only club trying to sign him. Cardiff, Blackpool and West Ham have all been linked with him.

This isn't Cedric Baseya Mk. II, and some people seem willing to write him off solely on the basis that he's coming from the Irish league.

[Hoop Blah]

Is that aimed at me w_r?

I've not said we don't expect anything of him, I'm saying that experience shows us that these imports with limited experience or pedigree over here have limited success, certainly in the short term.

[FiNeRaIn]

Murty was 700k btw, he was a serious investment that came good. 700k at the level we were at was extremely high.

[winchester_royal]

Is that aimed at me w_r?

I've not said we don't expect anything of him, I'm saying that experience shows us that these imports with limited experience or pedigree over here have limited success, certainly in the short term.

Not necessarily at you, but at the detractors in general.

Obviously there is an element of risk, but who is there that has a pedigree in the championship that we could afford?

We'd all be excited if it was Jordan Rhodes coming in, but he has no pedigree in this league, and indeed was deemed surplus to requirements by Ipswich.

[melonhead]

If you don't expect them to do anything (and by anything I mean even get in squads and look like they're going to be able to play for the first team) why wold you sign them?

Realistically the likes of Sodje and Makin were signed to be immediate back up to the players in the first 11. The likes of Bozanic, Manset, Baseya, Valisilev and the two Williams were bought to develop into first team players. I can't imagine the idea was to bring them in, pay them for 3 years and then let them go without ever playing for the club.

i meant the majority of fans, not the owner/scouts/managers

[FiNeRaIn]

Reading are at the point now where we are seen as a club in decline again going back to smallish club status, we'd have a seriously hard time attracting players like we could 3/4 years ago. I really believed the ceiling was the limit for the club back then and that belief of " why wouldn't they join us" was also there. Now our ambitions as a club are extremely clear to everyone to be a play-off side not willing to spend much on players. Most players with pedigree want a lot more than that and will favour clubs with more ambition with a bigger budget or even more history ( lets face it players will also choose forest/leeds > us). No doubt a couple of you will be annoyed and see this is a negative post ( melonhead/zac) but its just really meant as a reality check, Reading have never been fashionable to join...we had a brief period around the prem years where we could have pushed on and unfortunately didn't. The likes of Jordan Rhodes will NEVER join us, we need to be looking abroad and stop tunnelling targets wanted by 10 other clubs in England...its not productive.

[loyalroyal4life]

free transfer republic u21 player, give him a chance sure he won't turn out as shit as Manset!

[Hoop Blah]

Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not writing the guy off, saying he isn't good enough or saying we shouldn't sign him. What I am saying is that our record of signing players with little or no pedigre for the level we're playing at should mean we, as fans, don't expect success just because Doyle hit the ground running 7 years ago (can't believe that's now 7 years ago!). Signings like this are fine, but they do need

As for who's out there we can afford, well, as I have no idea what our budget is then I can't really answer that. There are plenty of players out there who are available for one reason or another though.

I'd quite like to see us bring in a couple of players like Buzaky and Keogh though. I think they'd address weaknesses in our squad.

[Extended-Phenotype]

 No footballer who has been bought in excess of 1-2m has ever played well.
 Every club which invests in players goes bankrupt.
 Investing in players has never earned a club success.

lmao you are a cock to be honest but I agreed with this. Don't forget to add the leeds/bradford comparison in the bankrupt part.

Well, if you were honest you’d have topped yourself by now, but yeah – the Leeds/Bradford cautionary tale is whispered around the campfire all to often.

[FiNeRaIn]

First part of that is childish/idiotic comment so won't lower myself to that.

Second part, it is thrown around a lot but that's the point. the same people using the same scenarios as if there is no in-between in the market. Its bankruptcy or being well run.

[ZacNaloen]

Reading are at the point now where we are seen as a club in decline again going back to smallish club status, we'd have a seriously hard time attracting players like we could 3/4 years ago. I really believed the ceiling was the limit for the club back then and that belief of " why wouldn't they join us" was also there. Now our ambitions as a club are extremely clear to everyone to be a play-off side not willing to spend much on players. Most players with pedigree want a lot more than that and will favour clubs with more ambition with a bigger budget or even more history ( lets face it players will also choose forest/leeds > us). No doubt a couple of you will be annoyed and see this is a negative post ( melonhead/zac) but its just really meant as a reality check, Reading have never been fashionable to join...we had a brief period around the prem years where we could have pushed on and unfortunately didn't. The likes of Jordan Rhodes will NEVER join us, we need to be looking abroad and stop tunnelling targets wanted by 10 other clubs in England...its not productive.

Why bring me into this?

[FiNeRaIn]

Because I know you are lurking there in the shadows, waiting to jump in on any dissent against the clubs transfer policy

[Hoop Blah]

If you don't expect them to do anything (and by anything I mean even get in squads and look like they're going to be able to play for the first team) why wold you sign them?

Realistically the likes of Sodje and Makin were signed to be immediate back up to the players in the first 11. The likes of Bozanic, Manset, Baseya, Valisilev and the two Williams were bought to develop into first team players. I can't imagine the idea was to bring them in, pay them for 3 years and then let them go without ever playing for the club.

i meant the majority of fans, not the owner/scouts/managers

When I've been talking about players meeting their expectations I've been talking about my perception of why the club purchased them, not mine or other fans expectations (although obviously mine will sway my perception of the clubs!).

The club must be expecting (or at least hoping) these gambles to progress into first team squad players or they'd just be wasting their time and money signing them.

[melonhead]

Reading are at the point now where we are seen as a club in decline again going back to smallish club status, we'd have a seriously hard time attracting players like we could 3/4 years ago. I really believed the ceiling was the limit for the club back then and that belief of " why wouldn't they join us" was also there. Now our ambitions as a club are extremely clear to everyone to be a play-off side not willing to spend much on players. Most players with pedigree want a lot more than that and will favour clubs with more ambition with a bigger budget or even more history ( lets face it players will also choose forest/leeds > us). No doubt a couple of you will be annoyed and see this is a negative post ( melonhead/zac) but its just really meant as a reality check, Reading have never been fashionable to join...we had a brief period around the prem years where we could have pushed on and unfortunately didn't. The likes of Jordan Rhodes will NEVER join us, we need to be looking abroad and stop tunnelling targets wanted by 10 other clubs in England...its not productive.

we always were a smallish club
we always had a hard time attracting players- even when we were in the prem- hence i believe why our current policy was embarked upon,
a championship play off team is what we are, and also better than what we have been for all but 2 seasons in our history
why would i be annoyed ? fanks for the name check though

every promoted team ever could have pushed on, only a tiny few cememnted their premiere league place forever

[melonhead]

Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not writing the guy off, saying he isn't good enough or saying we shouldn't sign him. What I am saying is that our record of signing players with little or no pedigre for the level we're playing at should mean we, as fans, don't expect success just because Doyle hit the ground running 7 years ago (can't believe that's now 7 years ago!). Signings like this are fine, but they do need

As for who's out there we can afford, well, as I have no idea what our budget is then I can't really answer that. There are plenty of players out there who are available for one reason or another though.

I'd quite like to see us bring in a couple of players like Buzaky and Keogh though. I think they'd address weaknesses in our squad.

i reckon budget may be a million or two on right players- buty i dont really know

now i get what youre saying- i also am not expecting this guy to blow us all away straight away, or possibly ever

would be nice though!

[melonhead]

First part of that is childish/idiotic comment so won't lower myself to that.

Second part, it is thrown around a lot but that's the point. the same people using the same scenarios as if there is no in-between in the market. Its bankruptcy or being well run.

lower yourself?
you did already call him a cock