Selling club

[RepressedRoyal]

@repressedroyal - excellent post and sums us up perfectly.

You've described the football club very much with a business hat on and to a tee. We have a number of very like minded supporters at Reading, middle class, level headed and understanding of the financial aspects of todays modern game. Wow, how exciting is that?!

I am old school, I don't look at Reading Football Club as a business first, I look at is as a form of entertainment which I invest in and want to get value for money from but most of all to enjoy an experience with like minded fans on a match day (home or away) with a beer or 2, a sing song, slag the ref off and banter with oppo fans. The last thing on my mind watching a game is ' I really hope we sell Kebe to balance our books this year!' That sterile thought does nothing for me at all. Hence why it grates me that we nurture talent who finally get to make us get off our seats (after all isn't that what gets us excited on a match day?) only to see that talent then ply their trade elsewhere for other fans to enjoy! The Sigurdsson sale still gets my goat, that was one player who I would happily pay double every week to watch such was his talent which we barely got a glimpse of.

I accept the way the club is run, because I have to and it makes economical sense with longevity attached and yes we're looking after the business first & foremost, but as a fan going to the match on a Saturday afternoon, that is the furthest thought from my head...............

My sentiments entirely Rob, I only hope you don't see me as a middle class supporter who doesn't care, rather a realistic one who thinks he has an idea of how the club is set up (I may be wrong of course). The trouble with football is that as soon as you reach where you want to be as a supporter, you instinctively want more. 15 years ago flirtation with the PL on annual basis was a salivating but unrealistic goal, now we have that in place we want more, but we just don't have enough passionate support (apart from the 13,000) or finance in place to sustain it, we are in a kind of no man's land really. Our best hope is that while everyone else goes bust we are one of the last clubs standing and in a position to fill any PL voids. Then we (me included) will be moaning that we are an unambitious PL mid table club. Look how Man Utd supporters behave when they are "only" second, being a football supporter means being perpetually negative, it is in our DNA!

[West Stand Man]

It's mildly amusing the we spent £700k on Murts 14 years ago yet won't even spend that now!

.

how much were mills, mcanuff,gorkss,ledge again?

all there or there abouts aint they?

Ok ok fair enough but in the main we do not spend that sort of money....

I mean, what did the Romans do for us .....

[Rob-Royal]

@repressedroyal - excellent post and sums us up perfectly.

You've described the football club very much with a business hat on and to a tee. We have a number of very like minded supporters at Reading, middle class, level headed and understanding of the financial aspects of todays modern game. Wow, how exciting is that?!

I am old school, I don't look at Reading Football Club as a business first, I look at is as a form of entertainment which I invest in and want to get value for money from but most of all to enjoy an experience with like minded fans on a match day (home or away) with a beer or 2, a sing song, slag the ref off and banter with oppo fans. The last thing on my mind watching a game is ' I really hope we sell Kebe to balance our books this year!' That sterile thought does nothing for me at all. Hence why it grates me that we nurture talent who finally get to make us get off our seats (after all isn't that what gets us excited on a match day?) only to see that talent then ply their trade elsewhere for other fans to enjoy! The Sigurdsson sale still gets my goat, that was one player who I would happily pay double every week to watch such was his talent which we barely got a glimpse of.

I accept the way the club is run, because I have to and it makes economical sense with longevity attached and yes we're looking after the business first & foremost, but as a fan going to the match on a Saturday afternoon, that is the furthest thought from my head...............

My sentiments entirely Rob, I only hope you don't see me as a middle class supporter who doesn't care, rather a realistic one who thinks he has an idea of how the club is set up (I may be wrong of course). The trouble with football is that as soon as you reach where you want to be as a supporter, you instinctively want more. 15 years ago flirtation with the PL on annual basis was a salivating but unrealistic goal, now we have that in place we want more, but we just don't have enough passionate support (apart from the 13,000) or finance in place to sustain it, we are in a kind of no man's land really. Our best hope is that while everyone else goes bust we are one of the last clubs standing and in a position to fill any PL voids. Then we (me included) will be moaning that we are an unambitious PL mid table club. Look how Man Utd supporters behave when they are "only" second, being a football supporter means being perpetually negative, it is in our DNA!

RepressedRoyal - definitely not putting you in that catagory and your post was totally accurate about Readings fan base & how the club is run and you are right about what being a fan is like! I am ok with not getting to the Premier League again unless we have new owners who can take us on another level, I actually enjoy the competitive nature of the championship. What I find hard to stomach is the clubs great delight in stating how proud they are of Sigurdsson making his premier league debut....for Swansea! Swansea for crying out loud, I could half go with that if it was a top 6 club. I understand we should run the club on a financlially prudent level I just wish they could either fill the black hole permanently or sell up and allow someone else to get on with it! As you say, we're in limbo....

[FiNeRaIn]

Of course we are selling club, that is the way it has to be unless some mad Arab is prepared to invest in us rather than a needy PL club such as Everton. The management at Reading are all big fans of the theories of Mathew Syed in the book Bounce, many of you will have read it, those of you haven't should do if you like sport, it is a great insight in to the beliefs in place at our football club. Basically there is a belief that natural talent does not exist, but that it is created by taking the right raw material and putting in hours of training and practice, Shane Long is a classic example.

Reading are in the business of creating a the right environment for raw talent to develop to a profitable level and sell them on to balance the books, they are running a business model to maximise income to balance the books, that doesn't bother me really, it is a good concept in my opinion. We like to create our own players who are hungry for career advancement, hence the dislike of loan players or buying in PL rejects or rivals players' on big wages in the hope they will be motivated to perform, ask Leeds and Leicester if this short term fix works.....in my opinion Matt Mills was not a 5 million pound player.

Any gambles that take place at Reading could be fatal, we only need to look at the disasters around us at Southampton (now recovered) Portsmouth (a complete joke) Oxford (just out of intensive care) and Swindon (see Oxford). We simply don't have the finance or support base to compete in the over hyped PL over a sustained period until we grow larger as a club, though apart from us long term die hards, for many of the Thames Valley middle classes who now follow Reading, it is just another hobby among many, a hobby that can easily be given up. We probably have 13,000 hard core supporters another 7,000 good time Charlies and 20,000 Daily Mail readers who go to play off finals to have a fantastic day out watching us lose as we cry in to our beer.

I hold no candle for Madjeski, he is not my type of guy, but I do believe the structure that Hammond and McDermott have created is a good one and possibly the only successful one available to us, Arsenal didn't head hunt Hammond because they are stupid and it wont be long before someone tags on to theories of McDermott and comes after him, rather that than blow money on dross the way Leicester have. The days of the PL were a huge over achievement, hopefully we might experience it again one day, but not at the price paid by the like of Charlton, Leeds, Bradford thanks very much.

I'd rather keep selling, however disappointing it feels to see our home made players move on!

Who the hell is this guy? coming on here and making good posts

I actually agree with nearly all of it. The only problem I have is the turnaround in which we let players go in. We've sold Sig, Long and Mills within a year and they were a core part of the team. Lets be honest if we keep selling our best players at the rate we do we wont ever make the premiership again - so whats the motivation as a fan to go and watch this season in season out just so you can see the players you once idolised playing for mediocre prem clubs. Where do we say... " ok thats enough selling for now, now we retain these players for two seasons and make a serious push". When does that part of the cycle feature?

Say Obita/Church/Pearce and Karacan improve this season and then substantially improve during next season in terms of really looking like prem players. I am not interested in us selling those players that summer and then repeating the cycle again as what is there to look forward to? I accept after time top quality players move on but not as soon as they are stand out here we need to do better in retaining the quality we have - especially as we know the money will balance the books and not be seen re-adding to the team. The signings in the past two years reflect this. Mills/Long/Sig Over 16 million in and something like 2 or so spent. You can't compete with the top teams in the division with this approach.

The thought of the next 10 years consisting of us selling all our stars and trying to create riches out of rags isn't very appealing as a fan. Especially when as soon as you become fond of that rag...its sold.

[Corky341]

Sadly football is a business now, not a sport........

BUT i would rather we had a club to watch, than go bust and fold

Seconded.

[Vision]

@repressedroyal - excellent post and sums us up perfectly.

You've described the football club very much with a business hat on and to a tee. We have a number of very like minded supporters at Reading, middle class, level headed and understanding of the financial aspects of todays modern game. Wow, how exciting is that?!

I am old school, I don't look at Reading Football Club as a business first, I look at is as a form of entertainment which I invest in and want to get value for money from but most of all to enjoy an experience with like minded fans on a match day (home or away) with a beer or 2, a sing song, slag the ref off and banter with oppo fans. The last thing on my mind watching a game is ' I really hope we sell Kebe to balance our books this year!' That sterile thought does nothing for me at all. Hence why it grates me that we nurture talent who finally get to make us get off our seats (after all isn't that what gets us excited on a match day?) only to see that talent then ply their trade elsewhere for other fans to enjoy! The Sigurdsson sale still gets my goat, that was one player who I would happily pay double every week to watch such was his talent which we barely got a glimpse of.

I accept the way the club is run, because I have to and it makes economical sense with longevity attached and yes we're looking after the business first & foremost, but as a fan going to the match on a Saturday afternoon, that is the furthest thought from my head...............

My sentiments entirely Rob, I only hope you don't see me as a middle class supporter who doesn't care, rather a realistic one who thinks he has an idea of how the club is set up (I may be wrong of course). The trouble with football is that as soon as you reach where you want to be as a supporter, you instinctively want more. 15 years ago flirtation with the PL on annual basis was a salivating but unrealistic goal, now we have that in place we want more, but we just don't have enough passionate support (apart from the 13,000) or finance in place to sustain it, we are in a kind of no man's land really. Our best hope is that while everyone else goes bust we are one of the last clubs standing and in a position to fill any PL voids. Then we (me included) will be moaning that we are an unambitious PL mid table club. Look how Man Utd supporters behave when they are "only" second, being a football supporter means being perpetually negative, it is in our DNA!

RepressedRoyal - definitely not putting you in that catagory and your post was totally accurate about Readings fan base & how the club is run and you are right about what being a fan is like! I am ok with not getting to the Premier League again unless we have new owners who can take us on another level, I actually enjoy the competitive nature of the championship. What I find hard to stomach is the clubs great delight in stating how proud they are of Sigurdsson making his premier league debut....for Swansea! Swansea for crying out loud, I could half go with that if it was a top 6 club. I understand we should run the club on a financlially prudent level I just wish they could either fill the black hole permanently or sell up and allow someone else to get on with it! As you say, we're in limbo....

I know what you mean but I can vividly remember Stoke fans saying the same about us when we took Duberry and John oxf*rd' Halls off of them. It's all about money and the Premiership distorts everything.

I'm with you in regards to the public championing of ex-players elsewhere but then I just switch off from anything "official" as far as the club are concerned.

I can understand it from the clubs point of view though looking at the big picture. For one it gives the impression of the club as like a family so that even after someone flown the nest we still take a pride and interest in how well they do. Its the spirit & atmosphere that McD and Hammond are trying to instill and who knows it could be a factor in persuading the odd transfer target to sign with us over others.

More crucially perhaps it's the fact we can claim he came through our Academy. Those of us of a certain age will have all grown up hearing how relatively local youngsters got away elsewhere rather than want to join us from a young age. We're now much more competitive in this area and once again highlighting this sort of thing could be a factor in persuading a talented young kid and parents that we're the place to start his football education. Hopefully in a few years time we can persuade them as adults that we're the place to further that education and even finish it here.

We're a competitive championship club that in 3 of the last 4 seasons have been one game away from playing at the top level the following season and we've avoided the pitfalls of a whole slurry of other clubs (much bigger than ourselves) that got relegated and didnt bounce straight back. I wouldn't call it limbo as much as doing things a particular way without the reliance of an individual benefactor to bail us out. It's something to be proud of as far as I'm concerned but like everyone I get frustrated at the thought that just a little more could make a big difference. Trouble is no matter what club you're at, whether thats a supposed rich club with rich benefactors, a traditional giant or a supposed financially prudent one, as a fan pretty much everyone feels the same.

[Bandini]

It will annoy me when we stop producing players that other clubs want to buy or sell flops on for less than we paid for them.

Other than Shaka Hislop to Newcastle for £1m, I believe we've only started selling players for big profits since we won promotion to the premier league.

Kerry Dixon
Lawrie Sanchez
Neil Webb

to name but 3.

Not to mention Ady Williams, Simon Osborn and Scott Taylor who we also made significant money (what was significant back then anyway) around the same time period.

Wasn't Curle sold for about £750K?

[Barry the bird boggler]

Wasn't Curle sold for about £750K?

Curle was sold for 500k, a record for us at the time....

[Rob-Royal]

@vision - very well put, can't argue with any of that. I recall talking many years ago to Dougie Webb about why Reading didn't have a very good youth system and he pretty much summed up your comments and particularly that so many good local players by-passed Reading completely. Of course those days it was Elm Park and training on public parks so attracting young players was always difficult.

I just wish we could hold onto those players a little longer (as Finerain put perfectly) and take a gamble rather than rebuilding every year. After all, the club in the prem is a far more saleable option than where we are now and isn't that what the Ego wants...?

[RepressedRoyal]

I wasn't entirely sure what response I would get to that post, I was searching for my tin hat whilst I was writing it. Reality is harsh in the world of an over-achieving football club like ours, it was obvious by the content, that the responses were written by proper fans and not some of the idiots screeching abuse behind me at Watford. Sky TV and the money it generates is such a poison chalice in reality, because despite all the hype of the £50 million play-off final, it's not as cut and dried as that when you have to take in the additional costs, salary aspirations of players and inflated transfer fees. That clown Andy Carroll was valued at £1m by Newcastle when they were in the Championship.

One of you rightly mentioned Stoke, but there was an article recently (in the Guardian I think) saying that BET 365 funnel a huge amount of their profits in to Stoke City to buy assets (ie players) rather than paying tax. They are on a cracking deal there, they are no longer the minnows we think they are, Tony Pulis is one lucky guy, as he has owners who don't really want or need the publicity (365 are Stoke based) and the kudos sought by the likes of Abramovich and whatever the chap at Man City is called. I would love huge benefactor to step up to the plate, but I am not sure some Russian Oligarch throwing his weight around our club suits our style. I know many Royals fans who would hate that and I know plenty of Chelsea fans who are getting cheesed off with the "It's my toy, I will do what I want with it" attitude, the Chelsea structure and recruitment policy is a total joke, but no one is in a position to challenge it. Imagine getting an owner like that lunatic at Hearts or the seemingly endless line of nutters that hover round Portsmouth!?!?

As FineRain said, what is there to look forward to when you just produce players to sell on? I wholeheartedly agree.... the thing is, we are not the only one's having to do this, Watford sold Graham, Millwall sold Morrison, we sold Long and so the list goes on..........I think we should all stop for a minute, shut our eyes and think of the two TB's (Burns and Bullivant) then open them again and remember that things could be a Hell of a lot worse.

Plus there is also the added bonus of seeing Mark Mcghee holding up a Bristol Rovers scarf in an empty stand as he describes his ambition for the club at press conference attended by a bored Sky reporter and the resident cat.

Just seeing that yesterday made being a Reading fan a joy to behold