Reading's best ever centre back?

[strap]

Dariusz Wdowczyk was class

Has anyone got data to show how many goals Dariusz Wdowczyk scored and who against?

So many question ... so little time ....

Easy one first then, in 77+5 league apps spanning seasons 94/5 to 97/8 he scored exactly 0 goals.

He made 3 apps in play-offs, 1 in FAC and 7+1 in the LC, and never scored a goal.

[strap]

Somebody mentioned on Ivar's thread that he has to be one of the 5 best ever centre backs we've had. Well I've been a Reading fan since around 2000, and I'd say that he's been THE best in my time. Sonko looked immense for 18 months. Bikey was solid on his day but could cost the team, as he did against Burnley. I loved Adie Williams, but Ivar was a better player than him. He was even solid in 07/08 when we went down and I see his injury last season as a key factor behind our eventual failure. Apparently this season hasn't been his best (I've not been in England so I'm just following what I read on here and in reports) but that's still 7 years awesome service we had out of him before his injury. Our Mr. Dependable.

How does he compare to the likes of Martin Hicks and Dariuz Wdowczk (spelt wrong) before my time?

Do you want a statistical based answer or just opinion?

Statistically, only 5 central defenders appears in the list of top 60 players (sorted by Pts/Game assuming min 10 League starts and 3 pts/fame).

Top of the list of central defenders is Matthew Upson ranked 4th, with a pts/Game ratio of 2.23. This falles to 2.07 if KNock-out Cup and Play-off games are added.

The others in the top 60 for League games only are:

9th Dave Shipperley 2.00 pts/game
23rd Adrain Whitbread 1.88
33rd Zurab Khizanishvili 1.82
36th Adidrian Viveash 1.81

The curiousity here is that apart from Dave SHipperley, all were at one time (or for their entire RFC career), loanees.

Personally, as centre-backs opperate in pairs, I would have thought a better measure of how good they are would be by comparing central defensive partnerships. So I'll go away and do just that .... (slow day at Strap Towers!)

[Hoop Blah]

My top 5

Wdowczyk
Curle
Williams
Ingimarsson
Upson (if we can include loan signings - he'd probably be higher if he'd played for longer)

Players 2-5 were probably better defenders than Wdowczyk but he was just so different and so classy he just has to sit at the top of the pile for me.

As for Bikey being anywhere near that list, well that's bizarre. Yes he had all the physical abilities and attributes but he never learnt how to use them and so never really cut it as a proper defender for me.

[leicsRoyal]

Scored one of the best free kicks i've ever seen V Chelsea in the League cup circa 1989. Metgod-esque.

Was that the one from about 25yards and never got above a foot off the ground?

The very same. BANG!

Can still clearly picture that now. I think that was the Simod cup season. We had a decent run in two out of the three cups and a very memorable night at home to Coventry.

[The Rouge]

In my time

Wdowczyk just for pure class
Williams because he was a local boy and just excellent and came back when we needed him.
Ingimarsson because he's been consistently excellent during our most successful period.

Prob go with that to be honest.

[Sydneyroyal]

Martin Hicks, despite helping Reading conceded 6 goals at home twice - Palace and Blackburn, there was no better hoofer of the ball. That was the best of British football. You didn't have to be able to pass then as a center back. How times have changed at Reading. Just can't compare eras, styles of play, divisions etc. but Hicks was my hero.

[Aubery Boyce]

Martin Hicks, despite helping Reading conceded 6 goals at home twice - Palace and Blackburn, there was no better hoofer of the ball. That was the best of British football. You didn't have to be able to pass then as a center back. How times have changed at Reading. Just can't compare eras, styles of play, divisions etc. but Hicks was my hero.

When was the palace game? I remember us shipping in 6 against them but long after Hicks had left.

[The Rouge]

Dariusz Wdowczyk, Ivar Ingimarsson, Adie Williams.

you MASSIVE RACIST!

[Fox Talbot]

Alf Messer.

Unlucky never to play for England.

Kept Reading in Div 2 'single-handed'.

Went to Spurs in 1930 and our next 5 results were 1-7, 1-3, 1-4, 0-4, 1-8. Can't say he wasn't missed!

[Madstad to Nadderud]

Dariusz Wdowczyk
Keith Curle
Steve Wood
Keith McPherson
Matthew Upson

[Royal Rother]

I'd put Keith Curle ahead of Darius if for no other reason that Darius was, it seems, a bit of a oxf*rd.

[bripps]

I've not looked back over thread but I believe the answer you're looking for is Keith Curle. Just looke an absolute cut above not just the Reading side he was playing in but more importantly pretty much everyone he played against.

Honourable mentions for Dariusz, Sonkomarrsson and if Gorkks carries on the way he's going then I think he might just turn out to be the best of the lot.

I almost gave Gorkss an honourable mention too! The guy is unbelievably calm and luckily this seems to be contagious as the rest of the defence is more settled whenever Kaspars plays. I completely agree with you that he'll be in the conversation in years to come.

[strap]

From what I can gather, the top 6 central defensive partnerships by games started is:

210 starts 1.48 ppg - Hicks/Wood
132 starts 1.45 ppg - Messer/Inglis
128 starts 1.33 ppg - Williams/McPherson
122 starts 1.73 ppg - Sonko/Ingimarsson
120 starts 1.72 ppg - Brice/Wicks
114 starts 1.60 ppg - Hicks/Hetzke

Can't find any others with 100 or more starts (should say that here I have treated loan spells as different from permanent).

Based in minimum 10 games started topgether, the best pairings have been

2.23 ppg from 13 starts - Upson/Williams
1.95 ppg from 20 starts - Shipperley/Hetzke (although Hetzke played RB for many of these games)
1.93 ppg from 14 starts - Whitbread/Viveash
1.91 ppg from 11 starts - Williams/Hunter
1.88 ppg from 42 starts - Williams/Wdowczky
1.83 ppg from 60 starts - Hetzke/Bennett
1.83 ppg from 29 starts - Barker/Lenarduzzi
1.79 ppg from 75 starts - Bennett/Hicks
1.78 ppg from 40 starts - Barker/Youlden

Hope this is of some interest!

[M Brook]

1 Wdowczyk
2 Curle
3 Williams
4 Wood
5 Hicks
6 Bennet
7 Hetzke
8 Ingimarrson
9 McPherson
10 Primus

Excluding Upson cos he was never ours and only played a few games.

[Jackson Corner]

1 Wdowczyk
2 Curle
3 Williams
4 Wood
5 Hicks
6 Bennet
7 Hetzke
8 Ingimarrson
9 McPherson
10 Primus

Excluding Upson cos he was never ours and only played a few games.

Can't disagree with that list I would move ingi up to 4. Till this day I will never know how we aloud Paul Bennet to leave for Aldershot?
And that after we had won promotion and the Shots stayed down.

[Terminal Boardom]

But Wdowczyk, according to sources at Elm Park, had a heart the size of a pea.

[Barry the bird boggler]

I never saw Steve Wood play for Reading but I caught the tail end of Martin Hicks Reading career and he was very good. My top three is 1) Adie Williams 2) Dariusz Wdowczyk 3) Ivar Ingimarsson.

Hicksy was a proper old fashoned "Stopper". Unbeatable in the air, uncompromising on the deck and a MASSIVE HOOF up front everytime he got the ball. No finesse whatsoever.

Scored one of the best free kicks i've ever seen V Chelsea in the League cup circa 1989. Metgod-esque.

He did the same v Palace at Selhurst in early 1988 - we won 3-1. Bang! Goal!

[Terminal Boardom]

I never saw Steve Wood play for Reading but I caught the tail end of Martin Hicks Reading career and he was very good. My top three is 1) Adie Williams 2) Dariusz Wdowczyk 3) Ivar Ingimarsson.

Hicksy was a proper old fashoned "Stopper". Unbeatable in the air, uncompromising on the deck and a MASSIVE HOOF up front everytime he got the ball. No finesse whatsoever.

Scored one of the best free kicks i've ever seen V Chelsea in the League cup circa 1989. Metgod-esque.

He did the same v Palace at Selhurst in early 1988 - we won 3-1. Bang! Goal!

September 1987 - same day as my parents' Silver Wedding anniversary.

[floyd__streete]

1 Wdowczyk
2 Curle
3 Williams
4 Wood
5 Hicks
6 Bennet
7 Hetzke
8 Ingimarrson
9 McPherson
10 Primus

Question mark over the 'keeper, quite a defensive line-up and you've only selected ten men.....otherwise, yes, this team would beat the current mob hands down.

[M Brook]

1 Wdowczyk
2 Curle
3 Williams
4 Wood
5 Hicks
6 Bennet
7 Hetzke
8 Ingimarrson
9 McPherson
10 Primus

Question mark over the 'keeper, quite a defensive line-up and you've only selected ten men.....otherwise, yes, this team would beat the current mob hands down.

Agreed.

That's why I only bothered with ten.