Thames Sports Investment

[Cypry]

Perhaps it's semantics, but i don't consider a club which needs an external cash injection every year as "break even."

As to increasing the size of thle black hole, paying just one player an extra £5,000 a week is a quarter of a million pounds onto the annual deficit.

To stop Matt Mills leaving we'd have had to have matched Leicester's offer of £25-30k a week, which would mean at least an extra £10K a week for him - so that's more than half a milion on one player to stop us "being a selling club." Pay him that and the other players wages go up (or they leave) so the sums involved are quite phenomenal.

And all the while, everyone is happily laps up the "carry on being prudent" and "no change to the ethos" because it's what they want to hear.

To stop being a selling club is simply going to mean substantial extra sums coming into the club from somewhere - and going onto the balance sheet as debt. The money that's been spent this last week has been loaned to the club, at base rate +1%, so the building up of debt has started.

It's not necessarily a case of hanging on to players at all costs, and caving in to their demands (and I suspect that's what SJM means when he says prudence will continue). It's more about not having to sell players just to fill the hole. If we have players who are capable of playing at a higher level, or a club comes in offering silly money, then I still expect players to leave, we just won't have to put our better players in the shop window every year.

As for debt being loaded into the club, I'm not sure where you got the info about base rate +1%...didn't know any information had been made available on that....and as for loading the club with debt, we owe the current chairman some £28M - I anticipate some or all of this will convert to equity as part of the sale, significantly reducing the clubs debt anyway. We'll likely be able to suck up several years of increased black hole filling, just to get back where we are today, assuming that we don't get promoted. Of course if that happens then we're talking a hole (geddit?) different ball game....

[Royal Lady]

So, Dirk - are you happy with this takeover or not?

[Svlad Cjelli]

So, Dirk - are you happy with this takeover or not?

I don't know enough about it - or the people behind it - to make an informed judgement. I don't think anyone does.

I do know that a lot of what we've been told so far flatly contradicts much of what else what we've been told, and that the "business plan" (in the loosest sense of the words) presented does not add up and cannot possibly be delivered.

I can also put you in touch with a man round the corner who'll happily sell you Tower Bridge - really cheap! A great deal, you'll love it and you'll make so much money on it.

[mr_number]

I'd say this thread is really limping towards the century now. A little bit like an Alastair Cook innings...

[1871 Royal]

I'd say this thread is really limping towards the century now. A little bit like an Alastair Cook innings...

If Anton makes an appearance at a game and speaks it will pick up as I am sure many people will read between the lines

[Snowball]

Cywka is a typical RFC buy, a guy with loads of potential who we will have on lowish wages (as he was about t sign in Poland)

Connolly is a loan-with-a-view to buy, again a relatively cheap option

Kebe (we've been told) did not get an improved contract

Roberts, dunno, but I would not expect him to be silly money.

Sheppard another classic Reading buy, "one for the future" and cheap as chips


All these things to me suggest the classic RFC way of doing things, but still "a small stretch"

The loan-signing of Wayne Bridge at 20K a week would have been a real "investment" but only £300,000 and
would have really excited the fan-base (unless some of them want to get cute) and sorted out the LB position.

I fancy Connolly will be an excellent LB

If it's true we went after a really good (at our level) attacking midfielder, then I'd say we were right on the button
and I can't think how we can criticise the types of strengthening or the money spent, or the "climate"

So far it all looks very good.

[melonhead]

its also nice to see that when we didnt get our targets we didnt just go and get some other random

[under the tin]

I think that sometimes things get over analysed.
The cold fact remains that in the twenty odd years of SJM's tenure, the only time that the business made any sort of profit was during the club's time in the Prem.
Now if we can work that out on a bleedin internet forum, then I'm fairly certain that the old boy, his advisors, and any potential investors have worked that out too.

For a relatively modest investment (remember, the training ground, academy, stadium, etc., are already in place) a club with an expanding fan base can join the elite, and perhaps start generating its own working capital.

Perhaps that is the way that SJM sold the proposition to TSI, and how they see it.

[Seal]

So, Dirk - are you happy with this takeover or not?

I don't know enough about it - or the people behind it - to make an informed judgement. I don't think anyone does.

I do know that a lot of what we've been told so far flatly contradicts much of what else what we've been told, and that the "business plan" (in the loosest sense of the words) presented does not add up and cannot possibly be delivered.

I can also put you in touch with a man round the corner who'll happily sell you Tower Bridge - really cheap! A great deal, you'll love it and you'll make so much money on it.

So is this 1% figure you quote fact or an assumption?

[Red]

Svlad do you ever think to yourself you might be happier as a Bournemouth or AFC Wimbledon fan or something?

[Svlad Cjelli]

The cold fact remains that in the twenty odd years of SJM's tenure, the only time that the business made any sort of profit was during the club's time in the Prem.

I'd like to challenge that statement of "fact". The only reason a profit was made then was because the wage levels being paid were were too low to attract/keep players good enough to sustain a team in that league, so that team was relegated.

No teams that are in the PL and secure in the PL make a profit - all of the additional income gets sucked into increased wages.

This myth of "make an initial investment then the club will run itself in the PL" myth is the same one which was given to the Venky brothers at Blackburn when they were introduced to Blackburn by football agent Jerome Anderson, who is also Steve Kean's agent. Jerome Anderson also introduced Thaksin Shinawatra to Manchester City and Chris Samuelson & Boris Zingarevich to Everton in 2004.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Svlad do you ever think to yourself you might be happier as a Bournemouth or AFC Wimbledon fan or something?

God no! It'd be utterly horrible to go through the experience of seeing my team wrecked by dodgy owners.

I've seen it happen at so many other clubs, and I've seen the effect it's had on their supporters, so I'd do anything I can to avoid the same circumstances happening here.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I’m pretty chuffed all in all.

We brought in a proven goal scorer, invested in a promising attacking mid, and strengthened our defence.

While of course it all felt a bit flat at the time what with names like Rhodes and Sharp being banded around (and for once, the belief we might actually get them) I can’t fault our dealing.

Next big hurdle is McD himself. I appreciate our current safe setup has the points tap on a slow but steady drip, but will he have the hairybrain to tweak the team into a more creative force?

He doesn’t seem to like upsetting players and isn’t always the bravest with new recruits.



----------------- Feds -------------

Cums -- Pearce -- Gorks -- Colly

----------------- Legs -------------

Kebe ------------- Cywka --- Jobi

------------ ALF ------------------
---------------- Roberts ----------


^ Perhaps too brave...

[Snowball]

What profits have Arsenal made?

[Hoop Blah]

The cold fact remains that in the twenty odd years of SJM's tenure, the only time that the business made any sort of profit was during the club's time in the Prem.

I'd like to challenge that statement of "fact". The only reason a profit was made then was because the wage levels being paid were were too low to attract/keep players good enough to sustain a team in that league, so that team was relegated.

It is still a fact, and we made that profit whilst paying wages in and around the average for the Premier League once you took out the likes of the 'Top 4', Spurs, Newcastle and West Ham/Villa.

The likes of Everton, Blackburn, Pompey and Man City were paying around the mid to late £30m's. The year we got relegated I think we were paying something like £3-5m less than them. If we'd been a bit more 'efficient' with our spending we'd have been ok.

We still made over £10m profit from those two seasons.

[Snowball]

Didn't these guys say they were in it for the kudos rather than money?

[ZacNaloen]

He's in it so he has a business presence in the UK for his money making interests, but he doesn't want a club that is going to be a complete money sink losing him hundreds of millions.

[Red]

Svlad do you ever think to yourself you might be happier as a Bournemouth or AFC Wimbledon fan or something?

God no! It'd be utterly horrible to go through the experience of seeing my team wrecked by dodgy owners.

I've seen it happen at so many other clubs, and I've seen the effect it's had on their supporters, so I'd do anything I can to avoid the same circumstances happening here.

I meant supporting a team that was owned and run by the fans really. Albeit they've suffered to get there.

[melonhead]

The cold fact remains that in the twenty odd years of SJM's tenure, the only time that the business made any sort of profit was during the club's time in the Prem.

I'd like to challenge that statement of "fact". The only reason a profit was made then was because the wage levels being paid were were too low to attract/keep players good enough to sustain a team in that league, so that team was relegated.

No teams that are in the PL and secure in the PL make a profit - all of the additional income gets sucked into increased wages.

This myth of "make an initial investment then the club will run itself in the PL" myth is the same one which was given to the Venky brothers at Blackburn when they were introduced to Blackburn by football agent Jerome Anderson, who is also Steve Kean's agent. Jerome Anderson also introduced Thaksin Shinawatra to Manchester City and Chris Samuelson & Boris Zingarevich to Everton in 2004.

cant disagree with that- apart from the fact that we now have a very good academy that can help with the money coming in, and by creating decent young players who play on lower wages until proven we reduce the wage pressure slightly
the ethos of the club where young players if they are good enough are given a chance and can play regular football in a great atmposphere can only help get and retain these players

also we only got relegated on goal difference on the last day after some truly mental results from fulham in the lead up
and it was more to do with th eteam asnd coppell losing it that it happened, not because we couldnt keep players- though id admit sidwell may have helped- and so might any one of the big signings we attempted but couldnt pay enough wages for.

[melonhead]

I’m pretty chuffed all in all.

We brought in a proven goal scorer, invested in a promising attacking mid, and strengthened our defence.

While of course it all felt a bit flat at the time what with names like Rhodes and Sharp being banded around (and for once, the belief we might actually get them) I can’t fault our dealing.

Next big hurdle is McD himself. I appreciate our current safe setup has the points tap on a slow but steady drip, but will he have the hairybrain to tweak the team into a more creative force?

He doesn’t seem to like upsetting players and isn’t always the bravest with new recruits.



----------------- Feds -------------

Cums -- Pearce -- Gorks -- Colly

----------------- Legs -------------

Kebe ------------- Cywka --- Jobi

------------ ALF ------------------
---------------- Roberts ----------


^ Perhaps too brave...

hes never been afraid to drop people, whenever hes felt it was needed- no matter who they were
maybe you didnt agree with who he picked, or thought he should have changed sooner of differently, but when he thinks it is right, he has always done so in the past