The Snowball stat thread

[West Stand Man]

I like the use of stats generally, but I did warn you at the outset that the subjectivity here would be an issue!

[Ian Royal]

Wycombe, I'm not sure our previous record does really come into it for anything other than a general indication of the mental strength of the sort of squad Reading puts together. Only two of our 5 play off campaigns have been in the last 5 years and there's virtually no one left from the first team squad for the the season we played Burnley. Karacan, arguably Federici... that's about it.

I'd say that our experience in the Play offs last season, actually stands us in pretty good stead for having the mental strength to do better this time around. Most of our squad actually has experience of playing in that sort of game now, which will help IMO.

It isn't just about players. There are the fans, coaches, managament, Chairman, etc. All have long memories that will affect the mentality around the club.

It like clubs having bogey teams, no one knows why, but nearly every team has one.

Bogey teams is slightly different IMo because there are different ability levels and it tends to come in spurts when you're playing those teams regularly.

You could hardly say Pompey were a bogey team of ours historically because they were mostly significantly better than us. Feel free to correct me it that isn't the case.

Us and Sheff U are a good example, but those games are across mostly consecutive seasons and involve two specific groups. I don't think you can apply that to PO defeats in the 90s and early to mid 00s. Certainly in anything other than a general lack of mental strength at the club in dealing with high pressure one off games. We've seen in the cup we can cope with them. We are now experienced in going to Wembley and playing on the big stage and the club are going to be determined to do better. We essentially lost to Swansea because of individual stupid mistakes and because we came up against a side who'd been better than us all season and new very well how to beat us. And we still nearly pulled it back.

Every other play off has been a one off with no follow up second chance for that squad.

[themadstad]

Though there's the whole probablity etc. We still fail at play offs, either by getting knocked out in semis or losing final. It just seems to be one of those things. And say we do go for a 2nd spot and get close then how does could that affect mentally?

[Snowball]

Though there's the whole probability etc. We still fail at play offs, either by getting knocked out in semis or losing final. It just seems to be one of those things.

Swansea were a better team than us.

When we played Burnley we had been awful since Xmas
and had just thrown away our chance of autos

We have to go back to when, then 2002-3 v Wolves?


Personally, I think people make too big a deal out of it

And say we do go for a 2nd spot and get close then how does could that affect mentally?

(a) Easy, go for first and make it.

(b) Go for first, slip up and "only" finish second.

(c) Finish 3rd and beat 6th in the semis then 5th at Wembley

(d) Finish 4-5-6th get through to Wembley, and win there.

(e) Finish 4-5-6th get through to Wembley, play well but lose


I would take any of them, but preferably (a)-(d)

[Snowball]

What bollocks. If a player wins a penalty for Brown to score that's an assist. (Agreed)

But if the player winning the penalty IS Brown, then obviously he didn't win the penalty... (FARCE)


You might want to look at this stats site as they awarded an assist to Roberts FOR WINNING HIS OWN-TAKEN PENALTY.
and then, obviously, they awarded the goal. That's how I would award it.

of course you MIGHT say, "Ah but he missed the pen, and scored from the save..."

That makes it even crazier. That would be saying, "If Roberts wins a penalty, takes it and MISSES, he gets an assist,
but if he SCORES it, he DOESN'T get the assist."



BTW, PLEASE NOTE. If you say Roberts missed the penalty, then he got an assist for winning a penalty that wasn't scored.

[Snowball]

I like the use of stats generally, but I did warn you at the outset that the subjectivity here would be an issue!

Not sure I know what you mean, WSM

[Snowball]

RESULT!

[From Despair To Where?]

No, if he misses the penalty but scores from the rebound, it's an unassisted goal from open play because he can't assist himself in scoring a goal, so if it comes off the woodwork or is saved by the keeper, he was the last player on his side to touch the ball. As soon as he takes the penalty kick, the ball is live and is therefore in open play. He doesn't get an assist for winning the penalty because the penalty was not successfully converted.

It really is quite simple unless, of course, you are trying to be deliberately obtuse or just plain thick.

[Snowball]

No, if he misses the penalty but scores from the rebound, it's an unassisted goal from open play because he can't assist himself in scoring a goal, so if it comes off the woodwork or is saved by the keeper, he was the last player on his side to touch the ball. As soon as he takes the penalty kick, the ball is live and is therefore in open play. He doesn't get an assist for winning the penalty because the penalty was not successfully converted.

It really is quite simple unless, of course, you are trying to be deliberately obtuse or just plain thick.

Perhaps you should look at this site:

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/jason ... _3666.html



You may notice that Mr J Roberts was awarded an assist for winning the penalty

[From Despair To Where?]

Or I could look at the numerous sites where he doesn't.

Actually, I'd just rather just give up. It's pointless trying to discuss anything with someone so utterly seduced by their own sense of infallibility.

[Compo's Hat]

Not reading Snoozeballs stats, but thought i should post this interesting article here from The Seventy Two rather than starting another stats thread.


Who are the most important players in the Championship promotion race?

http://theseventytwo.com/football-leagu ... tion-race/

[Snowball]

Interesting stats but a bit distorted in Reading's case IMO

Be interesting to see the same table without the first six games

It took Gorkss a couple of games to settle the back four and
after that they got better and better over time.

Results when starting . . . . Results when not starting

16-5-8 55% . . . . . . . . . . . 01-1-3 20% - Kaspars Gorkss

13-2-7 59% . . . . . . . . . . . 04-4-4 33% - Jimmy Kebe

12-2-6 60% . . . . . . . . . . . 05-4-5 36% - Noel Hunt


14-4-9 52% . . . . . . . . . . . 03-2-2 43% - Jem Karacan

09-1-8 50% . . . . . . . . . . . 08-5-3 50% - Ian Harte

07-5-5 41% . . . . . . . . . . . 10-1-6 59% - Adam Le Fondre

04-4-6 29% . . . . . . . . . . . 13-2-5 65% - Hal Robson-Kanu


Noel Hunt's stats are interesting. We've won the last 5 with him starting
but a few weeks ago his stats starting were 7-2-6 = 46%

Jason Roberts is currently 100% wins

[Snowball]

Or I could look at the numerous sites where he doesn't.

Actually, I'd just rather just give up. It's pointless trying to discuss anything with someone so utterly seduced by their own sense of infallibility.

I was put on to that site by a Nobber and it has fairly solid stats.

I am merely showing you a case of an official site that shows winning a pen that isn't scored, as an assist

[JC]

Can you point to a single newspaper report or any other source which shows Roberts 11 (pen) or similar?

[Snowball]

I am merely showing you a case of an official site that shows winning a pen that isn't scored, as an assist

[Wycombe Royal]

Or I could look at the numerous sites where he doesn't.

Actually, I'd just rather just give up. It's pointless trying to discuss anything with someone so utterly seduced by their own sense of infallibility.

I was put on to that site by a Nobber and it has fairly solid stats.

I am merely showing you a case of an official site that shows winning a pen that isn't scored, as an assist

An official site? Official in what way? The RFC Official site is official, OPTA stats are official as they are paid to do them by the premier league. That website has no affiliation with anyone that I can see and they even assign random values to players.

Use it for information, but don't treat it as official. Becuase it isn't.

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

90 Pearce
85 Federici
75 Gorkss
69 Harte
65 Le Fondre
60 Cummings
56 Kebe
55 Karacan
53 Leigertwood
49 McAnuff
49 Hunt
46 Church
34 HRK
30 Roberts
30 Connolly
30 Mills
25 Griffin
24 Tabb
20 Manset
05 Klhumalo
04 Cwyka


Note these totals are not evened out for minutes played

Points awarded as follows.

10 Scoring a genuine "solo" goal, ie no assist awarded
5 Scoring a Goal
5 Scoring a Penalty
5 Clear-Cut Assist
5 Winning a penalty that goes in either straight off or after a save/rebound
4 Winning a penalty that gets missed by another player
3 A Major Contribution, eg: brilliant cross by Harte, Kebe heads for Goal but Church scores
2 Lesser Contribution noted in dispatches (eg Kebe-Karacan interpass to set up cross for a goal)

Defensive

5 Points to the back 5 for a clean sheet
3 Points to 2 central midfielders for a clean sheet
5 Bonus for an "extra" such as a brilliant 1-on-1 save by keeper

I'm aware that the whole team takes part in a clean sheet, but...

What a mong.

[Snowball]

[Snowball]

A "real" site, then, one of long-standing with many hits

[Extended-Phenotype]

Assists do not form part of the official rules of football. The criteria can vary depending on whomever is keeping the data.

Most commonly though, a player is awarded an assist if he wins a scored penalty, unless he himself scores it. Universally, players can’t assist themselves in any circumstance.

The consensus seems to be that Roberts would have an assist if the penalty was taken and scored by someone else.

If that someone missed the pen, but then scored the rebound in open play, there would be no assist.

In which case, it seems even more daft to suggest an assist when that player is the same person.

A penalty was won, but not scored, by the same person. I can’t really see where the assist is in that scenario.