The Snowball stat thread

[Snowball]

Can we also re-route every post Snowball makes on any other thread so they end up here?

Rather tired of every interesting discussion on this forum being hijacked.

Agreed, so stop with your pathetic stand-up routines then

[Snowball]

As others has said I hope Snowball continues posting some of his stats on this topic. What gets to me is all the subjective things he includes like points for MC's, LC's, assisting themselves to score and then there are half assists, etc. Stick to plain and simple statistics that come from real data and not all the made up nonsense.

This is quite funny.

I was doing that and being pilloried for it.

People like EP and Mr A were arguing for MORE detail, saying that the mere goal-scorer and assister didn't tell the whole story

I added half-assists WHICH HAVE BEEN RARELY AWARDED for situations where a player has taken an unusually large part in a goal
but by the rules doesn't get an assist.

The clearest examples of that are Harte making a great cross, Kebe heads a great goal, but it's touched over the line by Church

Church GOAL, Kebe ASSIST, Harte ignored, is a false representation. The stats lie.

Thus I was trying for a small improvement


Another example is Kebe's brilliant 9.1 second run which resulted in a goal but no official recognition for the kebster


Now the thing is, I think, so far I've awarded about 3 or four of these (pointing them out and explaining them at the time)

They have quite a small effect.


Those who read the stats and wish to discount a few MCs (half-assists) just knock of a 1. That's complicated isn't it?

[Snowball]

tbf its not made up, those things happened -its the significance of them, and the fact that its only applied when he thinks its important
as lomng as you keep that in mind theyre still relevant and helpful.

Incorrect, Mel.


I didn't start the season doing it, but when I did it (3 whole times)
I then went back and did the whole season retrospectively

and I posted to say I'd done it.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Can we also re-route every post Snowball makes on any other thread so they end up here?

Rather tired of every interesting discussion on this forum being hijacked.

Agreed, so stop with your pathetic stand-up routines then

...The mother-in-law, she's so fat right, but t'other day she says to me, she says: "I'm just off t' C&A" and I says, I says: "why's that?" and the fat cow goes t' me "I've a date with that chap Snowball, and I want to buy something t' wear that will seduce him". So I goes "best make that Mothercare then, that c/nts a t' peadophile!"

You've been a great t'audience, yer ave.

[Snowball]

tbf its not made up, those things happened -its the significance of them, and the fact that its only applied when he thinks its important


as lomng as you keep that in mind theyre still relevant and helpful.

I'm talking about the point scoring primarily , as well as half assists, etc. I'm not doubting the events happened - Roberts DID win the penalty that he then scored. But bar one website and Snowballs mind everyone knows that in statitical terms he does not get an assist for it.

, and so was foule

WYC, try to understand something.

I'm not interested in what the norms are out there. That isn't what I'm trying to do.

You do understand that someone crossed a pearler to Hunt. Hunt made a great reverse flick, Roberts first touch was food, and cos he's big he kept the ball and so was fouled.

Now, ideally I would award points for the cross, the flick and winning the penalty. Sort of 2 for the X, 5 for the assist and 5 for the pen-win.



It's NOT meant to be like anybody else's stats. It doesn't matter whether (elsewhere) assists are or aren't awarded for missed penalties. These are MY stats, and this is what I believe and believe in. This is MY representation. I'm trying the EXPAND FROM the basic goal-assist routine that anyone can read anywhere so why bother here?

They were "Attacking Stats" Note that. Not GOAL-STATS.

If I could I'd have distances run, tackles, passes, good passes, "distractions" etc, and measures for wearing down centre-halves (like Hunt clogging their defender who went off soon after)


This why I get so maddened. People keep saying. "Do it like them and them."

No, I do it like ME. Because they are MY stats.

That isn't meant to be antagonistic, or confrontational. I mean this is what I do for myself, privately, how I CHOOSE to view the stats. And then I post them here.

And I say to everyone. PLEASE DON'T READ THE STATS. Go to "better" places and read their stats. make your own stats. I don't care.

Unless, of course, it turns out that some of my stats ARE useful. Like note the manager was a few weeks behind
me pointing out that since Sept 17th we had become the best side in the league.

And I have been HAMMERED for that, hammered for "ignoring" the first six games.

And then, guess what, the TV, the Manager, the RFC Programme are now all routinely trotting that exact same statistic.

[Snowball]

In short.


They are my stats. I do them MY way.

I respect your views. If you don't like my stats, don't read my stats.

You won't get me to change by attacking the stats or me.

[Snowball]

I'm talking about the point scoring primarily , as well as half assists, etc. I'm not doubting the events happened - Roberts DID win the penalty that he then scored. But bar one website and Snowballs mind everyone knows that in statitical terms he does not get an assist for it.

ACTIM uses some system to "value" players. (But I can't access it any more)

I'm developing mine.

You might reply "ACTIM's shite."

Fine, but all I'm doing is what I'm doing, warts and all. Feel free to ignore my work and do your own thing. (said in a friendly way)

[cmonurz]

In short.


They are my stats. I do them MY way.

I respect your views. If you don't like my stats, don't read my stats.

You won't get me to change by attacking the stats or me.

About the most succinct and explanatory post you have ever made. And your point is fair enough, only that you seem to miss the fundamental point of this board, which is to discuss the merits or otherwise of both facts and opinions posted on it.

You are essentially saying ‘I’m using this board as a dumping ground for my stats – post if you like them.’ This is a public discussion board, and you have to take the rough with the smooth. If you just want the input of the polite and like-minded, why not just go down the pub with your mates?

To follow your lead, succinctly – it’s a discussion forum, take the good and the bad that goes with that platform.

And no-one is trying to change your mind, although you'll find many value open-minded responses.

[Snowball]

Nope, you still don't get it.

All the points made are, "Don't do that. Do it like http://www.itsalreadybeingdonethatway ."

I know a fair number of people like my stats. A lot more would if the stupid heckling stopped.

And the point is, none of the heckling has done any good, just lots and lots of bad.

Three years and you've achieved sweet oxf*rd all (like you when you slagged off Long and were wrong)


If people were PMing me and chatting constructively about stuff it would be a different matter
(99% of my received PMs are friendly and even-handed, often sympathetic and UTTERLY different
from the posts on here.) But you know (and will now lie about it) that a huge proportion of the reason
you and others post your ritually negative posts on the stats threads is to have a go at Snowball, NOT
to actually improve the stats. It's bear-baiting, pure and simple. Was at the start, is now, and ever will be,
and those who say that's not so are, very simply, liars.

There is a stat thread now and no reason to get involved in it if you don't like the stats.

They are not going to change just because 20 blokes from some AE clique make a lot of noise
working in relay. All you do is cause hit and angst because you like heat and angst.

I am going to do MY stats, MY way because I don't LIKE stats done other ways, and anyway,
those who want those other kinds of stats already have them, so they don't need to read mine.

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

About the most succinct and explanatory post you have ever made. And your point is fair enough, only that you seem to miss the fundamental point of this board, which is to discuss the merits or otherwise of both facts and opinions posted on it.

You are essentially saying ‘I’m using this board as a dumping ground for my stats – post if you like them.’ This is a public discussion board, and you have to take the rough with the smooth. If you just want the input of the polite and like-minded, why not just go down the pub with your mates?

To follow your lead, succinctly – it’s a discussion forum, take the good and the bad that goes with that platform.

And no-one is trying to change your mind, although you'll find many value open-minded responses.

I h8 myself for saying this, but that's spot on; a really good summarisation.

Nope, you still don't get it

I can feel the facepalms from here. So I'll insert a gif just to disguise the fact that I can't read or write proper

[Snowball]

For Those Who Don't Like My Stats.


Football League
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/H ... 94,00.html

Statto (Excellent)
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/en ... ampionship

Football365
http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/runin.html

Player Stats Reading FC
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/readi ... _1032.html

Soccerbase
http://www.soccerbase.com/tournaments/t ... ?comp_id=2

Soccernet
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/scor ... ip?cc=5739

English Football Info
http://www.englishfootball.info/championship/stats/

SoccerStats
http://www.soccerstats.com/trends.asp?league=england2

[Ian Royal]

Very good post snowball. Any chance you can edit your first post and put them there so they are easier to find once the thread has inevitably moved on from this page?

[Snowball]

Why don't we, as good statisticians, use a sample size greater than 4 (which doesn't confer any statistical signifiance) Let's take, say, the 2010/2011 Premier League season.

Penalties awarded: 103 Penalties missed: 21

I hope we can all agree that we're looking at about 20% being missed ie. 80% being scored.

80% is less than 85%, if you're struggling with that bit as well.

Too Small a Sample. 1 Penalty missed is one extra per cent.

Let's get a relevant same that's 5 or 6 or more than six times yours. Good practice, right?

Correct League, Contemporary, 638 Penalties, anomalies minimised.

Let's see if we can find a relevant Stat.

Reading play in the Championship and have done for the last 3.7 Seasons

So let's find a stat that is for that exact period, and, of course, in the Championship

You couldn't argue with that, could you? Later I'll try to find more penalty statistics for 2000-2001 through to 2005/6


Here We Are... (Bringing this towards the thread end for easy updating

ALL Championship Penalties, August 2006 - March 1st 2012 (5.7 Years, 5.7 Seasons)

Pen-Gol-Miss-%
070 054 16 0.77 2011-12
157 138 19 0.88 2010-11
124 103 21 0.83 2009-10
142 113 29 0.80 2008-09
105 097 08 0.92 2007-08
040 035 05 0.88 2006-07

638 540 098 85% OVERALL (5 Seasons plus 33 Games)
568 486 082 86% OVERALL (for the 5 Full Seasons before this one)

2007-08 = 92% Scored
2006-07 = 88% Scored
2010-11 = 88% Scored
2009-10 = 83% Scored
2008-09 = 80% Scored

and this season, so far, 77%, will keep table updated.

(Perhaps a higher percentage of pens go in in the last third of the season?)


Grateful Thanks to Ian Royal for the Data,

[Snowball]

Very good post snowball. Any chance you can edit your first post and put them there so they are easier to find once the thread has inevitably moved on from this page?

Nope. But you can copy them now, start your own thread, if you like
and as you'll have the statistical world at your fingertips, you won't
need to bother yourself with the useless statistics here.

[Snowball]

Bumped for Easier Access


Interesting stats but a bit distorted in Reading's case IMO

Be interesting to see the same table without the first six games

It took Gorkss a couple of games to settle the back four and
after that they got better and better over time.

Results when starting . . . . Results when not starting

16-5-8 55% . . . . . . . . . . . 01-1-3 20% - Kaspars Gorkss

13-2-7 59% . . . . . . . . . . . 04-4-4 33% - Jimmy Kebe

12-2-6 60% . . . . . . . . . . . 05-4-5 36% - Noel Hunt


14-4-9 52% . . . . . . . . . . . 03-2-2 43% - Jem Karacan

09-1-8 50% . . . . . . . . . . . 08-5-3 50% - Ian Harte

07-5-5 41% . . . . . . . . . . . 10-1-6 59% - Adam Le Fondre

04-4-6 29% . . . . . . . . . . . 13-2-5 65% - Hal Robson-Kanu


Noel Hunt's stats are interesting. We've won the last 5 with him starting
but a few weeks ago his stats starting were 7-2-6 = 46%

Jason Roberts is currently 100% wins

[Snowball]

Bumped for Easy Access


Jason Roberts Reading Career to Date

PL. Date - - - Result - Pos - Goals - - - Assists - - - - - - - -

28 28.01.12 - 1:0 - - Striker - 1 Goals - - 1 Assists - - 77 Minutes Played - - Reading v Bristol City
30 11.02.12 - 2:0 - - Striker - 1 Goals - - 1 Assists - - 90 Minutes Played - - Reading v Coventry
31 14.02.12 - 0:1 - - Striker - 0 Goals - - 0 Assists - - 90 Minutes Played - - Derby v Reading
32 17.02.12 - 1:0 - - Striker - 1 Goals - - 0 Assists - - 76 Minutes Played - - Reading v Burnley
33 25.02.12 - 0:2 - - Striker - 0 Goals - - 1 Assists - - 90 Minutes Played - - Middlesboro v Reading


Data from:

Player Stats Reading FC then tidied

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/readi ... _1032.html

[Snowball]

Bumped for Easier Access

Overall Contribution

2,880 Minutes Played 90 Pts 32.00 Mins/Point Pearce
2,880 Minutes Played 85 Pts 33.88 Mins/Point Federici
2,285 Minutes Played 78 Pts 29.29 Mins/Point McAnuff
1,895 Minutes Played 77 Pts 24.61 Mins/Point Kebe
2,519 Minutes Played 75 Pts 33.59 Mins/Point Gorkss
2,608 Minutes Played 74 Pts 35.24 Mins/Point Leigertwood
1,435 Minutes Played 69 Pts 20.80 Mins/Point Harte
2,296 Minutes Played 67 Pts 34.27 Mins/Point Karacan
1,559 Minutes Played 65 Pts 23.98 Mins/Point Le Fondre
1,964 Minutes Played 60 Pts 32.73 Mins/Point Cummings
1,850 Minutes Played 49 Pts 37.76 Mins/Point Hunt
1,496 Minutes Played 46 Pts 32.52 Mins/Point Church
1,357 Minutes Played 37 Pts 36.68 Mins/Point HRK
0,424 Minutes Played 30 Pts 14.13 Mins/Point Roberts
1,198 Minutes Played 30 Pts 39.93 Mins/Point Mills
0,360 Minutes Played 25 Pts 14.40 Mins/Point Connolly
0,745 Minutes Played 25 Pts 29.80 Mins/Point Griffin
0,879 Minutes Played 24 Pts 36.63 Mins/Point Tabb
0,446 Minutes Played 20 Pts 22.30 Mins/Point Manset



Points per Minute Played

0,424 Minutes Played 30 Pts - 14.13 Mins/Point Roberts
0,360 Minutes Played 25 Pts - 14.40 Mins/Point Connolly

1,435 Minutes Played 69 Pts - 20.80 Mins/Point Harte
0,446 Minutes Played 20 Pts - 22.30 Mins/Point Manset
1,559 Minutes Played 65 Pts - 23.98 Mins/Point Le Fondre
1,895 Minutes Played 77 Pts - 24.61 Mins/Point Kebe

2,285 Minutes Played 78 Pts - 29.29 Mins/Point McAnuff
0,745 Minutes Played 25 Pts - 29.80 Mins/Point Griffin

2,880 Minutes Played 90 Pts - 32.00 Mins/Point Pearce
1,496 Minutes Played 46 Pts - 32.52 Mins/Point Church
1,964 Minutes Played 60 Pts - 32.73 Mins/Point Cummings
2,519 Minutes Played 75 Pts - 33.59 Mins/Point Gorkss
2,880 Minutes Played 85 Pts - 33.88 Mins/Point Federici
2,296 Minutes Played 67 Pts - 34.27 Mins/Point Karacan
2,608 Minutes Played 74 Pts - 35.24 Mins/Point Leigertwood
0,879 Minutes Played 24 Pts - 36.63 Mins/Point Tabb
1,357 Minutes Played 37 Pts - 36.68 Mins/Point HRK
1,850 Minutes Played 49 Pts - 37.76 Mins/Point Hunt
1,198 Minutes Played 30 Pts - 39.93 Mins/Point Mills

[Snowball]

Bumped for Access

Talking of Pairings

Here is Roberts and Hunt

5 Games, 5 Goals 4 Assists

Roberts-Hunt W 1-0 Roberts (1) Hunt (0) Bristol Hunt Assist, Roberts Assist!
Roberts-Hunt W 2-0 Roberts (1) Hunt (0) Coventry Roberts Assist
Roberts-Hunt W 1-0 Roberts (0) Hunt (1) Derby
Roberts-Hunt W 1-0 Roberts (1) Hunt (0) Burnley
Roberts-Hunt W 2-0 Roberts (0) Hunt (1) Middlesboro Roberts Assist

Roberts-Hunt W 7-0 Roberts (3) Hunt (2) TOTAL 3 Roberts Assists, 1 Hunt Assist

[Ian Royal]

*Deep sigh* I guess I shouldn't be shocked at the refusal to be helpful.

Only too happy to provide the data snowball - I don't only go looking for the stuff that exclusively supports my position. I believe I even highlighted in my own post that the Chumpionship stats matched your claim.

It's just a shame for you that you're having to stealthily adapt your position and hope that no one notices (we have) so they can't tell you your original point was wrong. Being that penalties have a conversion rate of 85%.

Your own source showed this to be incorrect. And now you are jumping on the excuse to use only our division to maintain your position, because everything else proves you initial assertion incorrect.

And surely, if our level is the best to use, then RFC's record exclusively is even better, what with this whole sorry affair beginning because you decided to award an assist to someone who'd won a penalty that was missed, on that basis that 85% of penalties are scored.

TBH, you'd have done yourself a lot of favours by admitting the figure was wrong and saying that the exact number is immaterial, 85% or 70%, the vast majority of penalties are still scored. That would have been very difficult to argue with and I suspect we could have lost a lot of pointless bickering and tedium had you done it.

You would, of course, still be wrong to give an assist (or major contribution) to a player winning a penalty that isn't scored. But that is a slightly different point and one that you would at least have some justification in defending as you're trying to use it as a way of quantifying that Cywka winning a penalty shows he is a dangerous and useful attacking player who will likely contribute to our success if he plays. You would be better arguing that without stats, but you will never agree with that because you are weird.

[Snowball]

BUMPED FOR EASIER ACCESS



Update after MIDDLESBORO



0,424 Minutes 05 Major Contributions one every 085 Minutes 3 Goals 2 Assists Roberts
1,559 Minutes 11 Major Contributions one every 141 Minutes 6 Goals 5 Assists ALF
1,895 Minutes 11 Major Contributions one every 172 Minutes 3 Goals 8 Assists KEBE
1,850 Minutes 10 Major Contributions one every 185 Minutes 4 Goals 5 Assists HUNT
1,435 Minutes 07 Major Contributions one every 205 Minutes 1 Goals 6 Assists HARTE
1,496 Minutes 07 Major Contributions one every 214 Minutes 6 Goals 1 Assists CHURCH
1,357 Minutes 06 Major Contributions one every 226 Minutes 3 Goals 3 Assists HRK
2,285 Minutes 10 Major Contributions one every 229 Minutes 4 Goals 6 Assists McAnuff

0,360 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 360 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists Connolly
2,980 Minutes 04 Major Contributions one every 745 Minutes 3 Goals 1 Assists PEARCE
0,745 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 745 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists GRIFFIN
2,296 Minutes 03 Major Contributions one every 765 Minutes 1 Goals 2 Assists KARACAN
0,880 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 880 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists TABB


1,198 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 1,198 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists MILLS
2,608 Minutes 02 Major Contributions one every 1,304 Minutes 1 Goals 1 Assists L-WOOD
1,964 Minutes 00 Major Contributions one every 1,964 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists CUMMINGS

0,022 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 022 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists CYWKA