LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by BR2 » 02 Apr 2012 14:20

Royal Rother Even the Liverpool fans are starting to see it now...

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/ind ... 85253.1880
I wonder if Gerrard looks at Paul Scholes and thinks 'that could me in five years time'? If he does he's deluded. Scholes can be harried and made to suffer these days. We know that. But watch him pick a pass. He's right every time. He has a vision of what a simple pass will do to the rest of the pitch. Or if not a simple pass, then a sequence of simple passes, which is why he often follows his own passes so that he's in a position to get a return and put in the next pass of the sequence before the opposition has had time to properly adjust.

Gerrard couldn't do this in a thousand years because he doesn't think like Scholes. When he plays in central midfield he drops deeper than Scholes ever would in order to pick the ball off the toes of the central defender, he likes more time on the ball than Scholes before delivering a pass, and his first instinct is to solve the problem in one single blow. That often means the long pass. And, I'm afraid to say, when he delivers a square pass it's often a stupid one. Unlike Scholes who usually tips the whole pitch to his team's advantage when he goes square.


Gerrard is not, has not and never will be a CM. His best football is played higher up the pitch or on the right and he lack the game intelligence and discipline to do what Lucas does. This is not a criticism, each to their own and all that.

Bar Everton, his best performance since his return was Newcastle at Anfield in December, when he introduced as an impact sub - which, as someone earlier pointed out, is what another Scottish manager does with older players. He would be a bigger benefit to the team for the last half hour of games on the right or behind the striker.


Yeah, he's been a decent attacking midfielder in his day but world class? Never was anywhere close to it and at just 31 he's reduced to being, at best, an impact sub in his own fans' eyes.... and that for the team currently sitting 8th in the PL.


Blimey RR you're working hard today trawling other clubs' websites to eventually come up with somebody who loves Paul Scholes.
"World class" is another argument altogether as IMHO we just don't have world class players in England so it is trite to bring up whether or not he is world class.
As far as midfielders go that are English I feel in my lifetime there have only been Gascoigne,Currie,Hoddle and Gerrard that might be considered as top class and at a push "world class".
I am far from being alone in considering Gerrard to be a bit special-just listen to the possible next England manager 'arry eulogising about the player as well as all the ex-players that we see on our TV.
You are fully entitled to your opinion but are way out of line with the majority within football and I find it a bit sad that you felt that you had to seek out minority opinions from other football fans to substantiate your opinion.

A further different argument would be over whether he is still a top player and if the injuries have reduced his effectiveness but to deride his past performances is frankly pathetic. and more in keeping with our Chelsea and Man Utd worshippers.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by RobRoyal » 02 Apr 2012 14:42

I wonder if Gerrard looks at Paul Scholes and thinks 'that could me in five years time'? If he does he's deluded. Scholes can be harried and made to suffer these days. We know that. But watch him pick a pass. He's right every time. He has a vision of what a simple pass will do to the rest of the pitch. Or if not a simple pass, then a sequence of simple passes, which is why he often follows his own passes so that he's in a position to get a return and put in the next pass of the sequence before the opposition has had time to properly adjust.

Gerrard couldn't do this in a thousand years because he doesn't think like Scholes. When he plays in central midfield he drops deeper than Scholes ever would in order to pick the ball off the toes of the central defender, he likes more time on the ball than Scholes before delivering a pass, and his first instinct is to solve the problem in one single blow. That often means the long pass. And, I'm afraid to say, when he delivers a square pass it's often a stupid one. Unlike Scholes who usually tips the whole pitch to his team's advantage when he goes square.


Gerrard is excellent at what he does (or at least was, back at his peak). If you take a look at his Liverpool goal record vs, say, Lampard's, it does somewhat put him in his place, mind (it's not that special). As the above comment very smartly argues, what he does is rather limited. If you imagine that he's going to be the focal point of your team you'll do alright, but your success will be limited by his passing range and accuracy.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Hoop Blah » 02 Apr 2012 14:58

Vision
Hoop Blah Scholes and Gerrard are, and always have been, different types of player so the comparison is a bit daft really.

He's not as good as he was no. Is he still capable of being very good though? Yeah, I think so but it could be that the injuries have taken their toll. He needs to be managed cleverly to get the best out of him. I'm not convinced that he'll get that though.


You also have to factor in the players and teams they've been playing in as well. Scholes has played pretty much in the best team domestically for the last 15 years or so and probably the most attacking as well. Therefore he's not having to force things to happen all the time. Gerrard on the other hand has spent most of his career in a far more defensive set up (with inferior players and carrying the side a lot of the time) under Houllier and especially Benitez and has been charged with being the main creator within that set up. As such his conversion ratio will be much smaller as he's trying far more out of the ordinary stuff.

Scholes is magnificent and is the player I always hold up as an example when anyone says English footballers don't have the same technical abilities as foreigners. Just because Gerrard falls short of that level doesn't mean he's not been a mighty fine player though. Scholes couldn't have played right back in extra time of a Champions League Final as Gerrad did but it doesn't make him less of a player.


Absolutely agree.

Wax Jacket I've always seen him as a right-sided midfielder tbh, was the natural replacement for Beckham in the England team and then you don't have the whole Lampard - Gerrard argument. but some players always seem to have their way


Gerrard isn't one of those though is he?

He's very rarely been played in his normal position because he's always been asked to play on the left, right or alongside Lampard in the middle when he's usually been the one to do a bit more holding than Lampard.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Royal Rother » 02 Apr 2012 15:07

BR2
Royal Rother Even the Liverpool fans are starting to see it now...

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/ind ... 85253.1880
I wonder if Gerrard looks at Paul Scholes and thinks 'that could me in five years time'? If he does he's deluded. Scholes can be harried and made to suffer these days. We know that. But watch him pick a pass. He's right every time. He has a vision of what a simple pass will do to the rest of the pitch. Or if not a simple pass, then a sequence of simple passes, which is why he often follows his own passes so that he's in a position to get a return and put in the next pass of the sequence before the opposition has had time to properly adjust.

Gerrard couldn't do this in a thousand years because he doesn't think like Scholes. When he plays in central midfield he drops deeper than Scholes ever would in order to pick the ball off the toes of the central defender, he likes more time on the ball than Scholes before delivering a pass, and his first instinct is to solve the problem in one single blow. That often means the long pass. And, I'm afraid to say, when he delivers a square pass it's often a stupid one. Unlike Scholes who usually tips the whole pitch to his team's advantage when he goes square.


Gerrard is not, has not and never will be a CM. His best football is played higher up the pitch or on the right and he lack the game intelligence and discipline to do what Lucas does. This is not a criticism, each to their own and all that.

Bar Everton, his best performance since his return was Newcastle at Anfield in December, when he introduced as an impact sub - which, as someone earlier pointed out, is what another Scottish manager does with older players. He would be a bigger benefit to the team for the last half hour of games on the right or behind the striker.


Yeah, he's been a decent attacking midfielder in his day but world class? Never was anywhere close to it and at just 31 he's reduced to being, at best, an impact sub in his own fans' eyes.... and that for the team currently sitting 8th in the PL.


Blimey RR you're working hard today trawling other clubs' websites to eventually come up with somebody who loves Paul Scholes.
"World class" is another argument altogether as IMHO we just don't have world class players in England so it is trite to bring up whether or not he is world class.
As far as midfielders go that are English I feel in my lifetime there have only been Gascoigne,Currie,Hoddle and Gerrard that might be considered as top class and at a push "world class".
I am far from being alone in considering Gerrard to be a bit special-just listen to the possible next England manager 'arry eulogising about the player as well as all the ex-players that we see on our TV.
You are fully entitled to your opinion but are way out of line with the majority within football and I find it a bit sad that you felt that you had to seek out minority opinions from other football fans to substantiate your opinion.

A further different argument would be over whether he is still a top player and if the injuries have reduced his effectiveness but to deride his past performances is frankly pathetic. and more in keeping with our Chelsea and Man Utd worshippers.


I just enjoy winding you up is all.

Pathetic? Sad? Probably yes, but it amuses me a little.

But I can assure you I really didn't have to seek anything out at all, just looked at the Kop Forum to see what they think of him right now, and there it was, 1st and only page I looked at, clear as you like.

And really, you are just way too sensitive on the subject of Stevie G - rather than "deride his past performances" as you said I did, I actually gave credit where it was due when posting - "He's been a decent attacking midfielder in his day..."

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by No Fixed Abode » 02 Apr 2012 15:14

BR2
No Fixed Abode We're all still w8ing for Stevie G to reach his peak. :lol:


Presumably that is the royal "we" meaning "you", dumbo.
Have you never seen a picture of him holding the European Cup?
In fact have you ever seen the European Cup?
I had the pleasure of going to Anfield a couple of weeks ago and saw the 5th version of the cup-that's what happens when you win 5 European Cups,you get to keep it whereas no other British club has come anywhere near getting 5 and your mob just turn up now and again for the lol and on the rare chance of a solitary victory you blew it..


Defintely rattLOLed. BR2 - another Liverpool fan. Who will you support next season should Reading gain promotion?


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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Big Foot » 02 Apr 2012 16:07

Went to the Barbers and asked for a Liverpool FC haircut. Mess at the back, nothing on the sides and nothing up front. He charged me £130 million.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Victor Meldrew » 02 Apr 2012 16:09

Big Foot Went to the Barbers and asked for a Liverpool FC haircut. Mess at the back, nothing on the sides and nothing up front. He charged me £130 million.


Didn't he give you about £100 million back as a rebate?

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Big Foot » 02 Apr 2012 16:14

Victor Meldrew
Big Foot Went to the Barbers and asked for a Liverpool FC haircut. Mess at the back, nothing on the sides and nothing up front. He charged me £130 million.


Didn't he give you about £100 million back as a rebate?

Why would he do that?

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Victor Meldrew » 02 Apr 2012 17:58

Big Foot
Victor Meldrew
Big Foot Went to the Barbers and asked for a Liverpool FC haircut. Mess at the back, nothing on the sides and nothing up front. He charged me £130 million.


Didn't he give you about £100 million back as a rebate?

Why would he do that?


Think about it.


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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Victor Meldrew » 02 Apr 2012 18:33

Vision
Hoop Blah Scholes and Gerrard are, and always have been, different types of player so the comparison is a bit daft really.

He's not as good as he was no. Is he still capable of being very good though? Yeah, I think so but it could be that the injuries have taken their toll. He needs to be managed cleverly to get the best out of him. I'm not convinced that he'll get that though.


You also have to factor in the players and teams they've been playing in as well. Scholes has played pretty much in the best team domestically for the last 15 years or so and probably the most attacking as well. Therefore he's not having to force things to happen all the time. Gerrard on the other hand has spent most of his career in a far more defensive set up (with inferior players and carrying the side a lot of the time) under Houllier and especially Benitez and has been charged with being the main creator within that set up. As such his conversion ratio will be much smaller as he's trying far more out of the ordinary stuff.

Scholes is magnificent and is the player I always hold up as an example when anyone says English footballers don't have the same technical abilities as foreigners. Just because Gerrard falls short of that level doesn't mean he's not been a mighty fine player though. Scholes couldn't have played right back in extra time of a Champions League Final as Gerrad did but it doesn't make him less of a player.


My unnatural dislike of all things Man Utd makes it difficult for me to be totally objective about any of their players but Best,Schmeichel and Ronaldo have been "world class" in my book.
With Scholes the nasty dirty side of his play has made it difficult for me to like and appreciate him in the same way as you do-similarly the diving of Ronaldo blurred his terrific talent in most people's eyes until he cut it out to show what a top player he is.

As for English players with the technical skills of foreigners I believe Currie,Hoddle and Gascoigne are as good as and probably better than Scholes witnessed by Monaco and Lazio to this day believing that these last two are amongst the very best to have ever played for those clubs and IIRC (?) helping the two clubs to championships in those countries.
Wenger to this day is quoted as saying that Hoddle may be the best signing he has ever made.

Anyway from memory I think you and I are both members of the Richie Bowman Appreciation Society and fail to understand why he never received international recognition. :wink:

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by No Fixed Abode » 02 Apr 2012 18:39

Just out of interest Victor. Why do you hate Man U when Liverpool are a more unlikeable club?

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Victor Meldrew » 02 Apr 2012 18:47

No Fixed Abode
BR2
No Fixed Abode We're all still w8ing for Stevie G to reach his peak. :lol:


Presumably that is the royal "we" meaning "you", dumbo.
Have you never seen a picture of him holding the European Cup?
In fact have you ever seen the European Cup?
I had the pleasure of going to Anfield a couple of weeks ago and saw the 5th version of the cup-that's what happens when you win 5 European Cups,you get to keep it whereas no other British club has come anywhere near getting 5 and your mob just turn up now and again for the lol and on the rare chance of a solitary victory you blew it..


Defintely rattLOLed. BR2 - another Liverpool fan. Who will you support next season should Reading gain promotion?


I had to make the decision on March 11th 1970.
I had just been for a job interview in Southampton and on that night Liverpool were playing at The Dell and Reading were pushing for promotion from Div 3 and playing fellow challengers Luton.
I felt that Reading needed me most and we got soaked as Reading lost 1-0 and Allun Evans scored for Liverpool in a 1-0 win.
Amazingly the two clubs never played each other until just a few years ago and then kept on playing each other in league and cups.

Presumably you have a similar dilemma along with the Dog for when Reading play Chelsea or Man Utd?

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Victor Meldrew » 02 Apr 2012 18:51

No Fixed Abode Just out of interest Victor. Why do you hate Man U when Liverpool are a more unlikeable club?


Perhaps a poll would find otherwise with Chelsea possibly being the most disliked of all English clubs,even more so than Man Utd.


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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by sandman » 02 Apr 2012 19:18

Victor Meldrew
No Fixed Abode Just out of interest Victor. Why do you hate Man U when Liverpool are a more unlikeable club?


Perhaps a poll would find otherwise with Chelsea possibly being the most disliked of all English clubs,even more so than Man Utd.


Awww. Don't worry you're all as bad as each other. No Suarezo.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by BR2 » 03 Apr 2012 09:28

Victor Meldrew
Vision
Hoop Blah Scholes and Gerrard are, and always have been, different types of player so the comparison is a bit daft really.

He's not as good as he was no. Is he still capable of being very good though? Yeah, I think so but it could be that the injuries have taken their toll. He needs to be managed cleverly to get the best out of him. I'm not convinced that he'll get that though.


You also have to factor in the players and teams they've been playing in as well. Scholes has played pretty much in the best team domestically for the last 15 years or so and probably the most attacking as well. Therefore he's not having to force things to happen all the time. Gerrard on the other hand has spent most of his career in a far more defensive set up (with inferior players and carrying the side a lot of the time) under Houllier and especially Benitez and has been charged with being the main creator within that set up. As such his conversion ratio will be much smaller as he's trying far more out of the ordinary stuff.

Scholes is magnificent and is the player I always hold up as an example when anyone says English footballers don't have the same technical abilities as foreigners. Just because Gerrard falls short of that level doesn't mean he's not been a mighty fine player though. Scholes couldn't have played right back in extra time of a Champions League Final as Gerrad did but it doesn't make him less of a player.


My unnatural dislike of all things Man Utd makes it difficult for me to be totally objective about any of their players but Best,Schmeichel and Ronaldo have been "world class" in my book.
With Scholes the nasty dirty side of his play has made it difficult for me to like and appreciate him in the same way as you do-similarly the diving of Ronaldo blurred his terrific talent in most people's eyes until he cut it out to show what a top player he is.

As for English players with the technical skills of foreigners I believe Currie,Hoddle and Gascoigne are as good as and probably better than Scholes witnessed by Monaco and Lazio to this day believing that these last two are amongst the very best to have ever played for those clubs and IIRC (?) helping the two clubs to championships in those countries.
Wenger to this day is quoted as saying that Hoddle may be the best signing he has ever made.

Anyway from memory I think you and I are both members of the Richie Bowman Appreciation Society and fail to understand why he never received international recognition. :wink:


The two sides of Scholes last night.
The elegant passer (although Blackburn gave him acres of space) and the dirty hacking down of a Blackburn player on the break (not booked)plus a foul then effing and blinding at the ref but Howard Webb does nothing.
Respect?
When will the FA ever do anything about the diabolical language of Man Utd players in particular (given that most of their games are shown live and the players know that they are on TV)and other players in general addressed to referees?

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by soggy biscuit » 03 Apr 2012 14:51

Why do Liverpool fans keep talking about finishing the season with 2 trophies? Do they realise that they are the lowest ranked team left in the FA Cup?

Bottom 6 since turn of the year:

15. Wigan 13 pts
16. Stoke 12 pts
17. QPR. 11 pts
18. Villa 10 pts
19. L'pool 8 pts
20. Wolves 5 pts

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Victor Meldrew » 03 Apr 2012 15:39

soggy biscuit Why do Liverpool fans keep talking about finishing the season with 2 trophies? Do they realise that they are the lowest ranked team left in the FA Cup?

Bottom 6 since turn of the year:

15. Wigan 13 pts
16. Stoke 12 pts
17. QPR. 11 pts
18. Villa 10 pts
19. L'pool 8 pts
20. Wolves 5 pts


Probably because they already have one trophy and have a 3/1 chance of winning another one.
Perfectly logical I would have thought and in that period of poor form they actually won the first of those trophies.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by Scylla » 03 Apr 2012 15:41

soggy biscuit Why do Liverpool fans keep talking about finishing the season with 2 trophies? Do they realise that they are the lowest ranked team left in the FA Cup?

Bottom 6 since turn of the year:

15. Wigan 13 pts
16. Stoke 12 pts
17. QPR. 11 pts
18. Villa 10 pts
19. L'pool 8 pts
20. Wolves 5 pts


The natural optimism of those blessed with a sunny disposition.

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by TheMaraudingDog » 10 Apr 2012 14:33

What Alan Davies *actually* said about Liverpool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XBPA5drFo&sns=tw via @youtube
:lol:

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Re: LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

by ZacNaloen » 10 Apr 2012 14:53

He's spot on really isn't he?

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