Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Pseud O'Nym]

Also, if you were a credit card company would you be keen to let Pompey fans buy season tickets on plastic?

must be being a bit dim, but why would that matter?

Given that the money would be coming from Pompey fans, not the club, what would be the risk?

If Pompey were liquidated the card company would have to reimburse the ticket purchasers, I think.

Buy something costing over £100 on a credit (NOT debit) card, and under the section 75 law your lender is jointly liable with the retailer. If the company goes kaput and you can't contact it about problems or any other issue, you have exactly the same consumer rights with the card company as you do with the retailer to get money back or compensation.

[Dylan D'oh]

The idea that Rangers could fold and just transfer all their assets to a new club is staggering. Is that even legal? Don't they have a responsibility to creditors?

It may be staggering.....but it is also worth saying that it is a move universally opposed by the entire Rangers support. Yes, the entire support.

What is staggering is the opportunisitic change of rules, designed solely to kick Rangers, while Rangers are in a sensitive purchase process and difficult admin state. This is being done by the authorities to placate Scotland's special needs club and their rhabble. You know, the ones who were gonna clinch the title at Ibrox, tee hee, how'dya like them oranges Liewell

[ZacNaloen]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17679909


oxf*rd me.

Pompey owe 20 million more now than they did when they came out of Admin in 2010.

Just get rid.

[10539.4 Miles Away]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17679909


oxf*rd me.

Pompey owe 20 million more now than they did when they came out of Admin in 2010.

Just get rid.

The report also shows that they have so far spent 1,652 hours dealing with the administration, at a cost of £525,000, which they have not yet been paid.

317 quid an hour! Think I may change profession

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17679909


oxf*rd me.

Pompey owe 20 million more now than they did when they came out of Admin in 2010.

Just get rid.

Yep, and this time The Poppy Appeal is on the list of creditors. They have form - last time it was other charities and St John Ambulance.

It's an utter disgrace. No other word for it.

What staggers me almost as much is why no-one is being brought to account for this. If this was my small business, trying on these kinds of shenanigans time and time again, I'm pretty sure I'd be facing some form of criminal charge by now, with the prospect of a long sentence to follow.

[Mr Angry]

Still, that £8M the fans are going to raise in order to buy the club will be enough to sort everything out........... less the other £50M owed of course.

[Mr Angry]

I noticed that Rangers have lined up a benefit match against Linfield at Windsor Park - all proceeds going to, er.......Rangers!



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17678447

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

Still, that £8M the fans are going to raise in order to buy the club will be enough to sort everything out........... less the other £50M owed of course.

I think the idea is to get the CVA agreed before the sale, reducing the debt to several million - so in theory, that 8m could be enough and provide a float.

But let's hope it doesn't get to that. Two admins seems a very immoral (although legal it seems) way to spend, spend, spend without recourse. Any ordinary company would have been put out of its misery by now. The fact that Pompey may still be in business next season - unlike some of the suppliers they have shafted for the second time - sticks in the craw somewhat.

[Barry the bird boggler]

When a business is liquidated surely any assets that they have, have to be sold to realise the maximum possible amount for any creditors and therefore any new business would not be able to just take on assets without paying whatever market values there are for them.

[Mr Angry]

Still, that £8M the fans are going to raise in order to buy the club will be enough to sort everything out........... less the other £50M owed of course.

I think the idea is to get the CVA agreed before the sale, reducing the debt to several million - so in theory, that 8m could be enough and provide a float.

But let's hope it doesn't get to that. Two admins seems a very immoral (although legal it seems) way to spend, spend, spend without recourse. Any ordinary company would have been put out of its misery by now. The fact that Pompey may still be in business next season - unlike some of the suppliers they have shafted for the second time - sticks in the craw somewhat.

Therein lies the problem I suspect; HMRC will object to a new CVA, pointing out that Portsmouth FC have already breached the CVA that was agreed in 2010.

[exileinleeds]

My understanding is that HMRC automatically object to CVA's- they brought the WUP and have their man in charge...He is best placed to know what they will, or critically, will not, accept.

From what I understand, Pompey are still liable for £5-6m in wage contracts next year. Significantly less (or none) league/TV money, and likely attendences of >10,000, plus repayments of an acceptably high amounts on previous debts. Plus the old problem of who owns FP- and the land it stands on...and what should be done with it.

Assets are the Golden Share.
Players that they couldn't off-load.

They need someone to come forward and have sufficient funds to cover all the above- before they can even start to rebuild the team...let alone address and training ground issues.

There seems to be a dearth of people with those sort of funds willing to take the risk. How strange.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

Still, that £8M the fans are going to raise in order to buy the club will be enough to sort everything out........... less the other £50M owed of course.

I think the idea is to get the CVA agreed before the sale, reducing the debt to several million - so in theory, that 8m could be enough and provide a float.

But let's hope it doesn't get to that. Two admins seems a very immoral (although legal it seems) way to spend, spend, spend without recourse. Any ordinary company would have been put out of its misery by now. The fact that Pompey may still be in business next season - unlike some of the suppliers they have shafted for the second time - sticks in the craw somewhat.

Therein lies the problem I suspect; HMRC will object to a new CVA, pointing out that Portsmouth FC have already breached the CVA that was agreed in 2010.

Can they object though? I think they are owed 2.9m out of that 50m - not enough to oppose it. It may, of course, be that the original CVA's default offers additional powers but I have no specialist knowledge at all on this, but someone on here surely does.

[Ian Royal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17679909


oxf*rd me.

Pompey owe 20 million more now than they did when they came out of Admin in 2010.

Just get rid.

Portsmouth administrators' report reveals £58m debt

A report published by administrators PKF has revealed that Portsmouth owe £58m, £20m more than when the club came out of administration in October 2010.

Of that, £38m is owed for the purchase of the club from the previous administrators, UHY Hacker Young.

A further £10.5m investment made by Vladimir Antonov's Convers Sports Initiatives (CSI) remains outstanding.

Players are due £3.5m in wages and bonuses for the last two seasons, while £2.3m is owed to Revenue and Customs.

Additionaly, £3.7m is owed for general trade.

The report also shows that they have so far spent 1,652 hours dealing with the administration, at a cost of £525,000, which they have not yet been paid.

Trevor Birch, chief administrator at PKF, stated earlier on Wednesday that he had received no firm offers to buy the club, and that liquidation was still a real possibility.

And the attempt to stop HMRC from being able to block another CVA begins. Is it me or does that also show that Chanrai bought them back without actually paying for them?

Surely the most basic of things required to buy a club in a deal to take them out of Administration is for some money to actually change hands. I mean in an above board, non-manilla envelope way.

[weybridgewanderer]

Still, that £8M the fans are going to raise in order to buy the club will be enough to sort everything out........... less the other £50M owed of course.

I think the idea is to get the CVA agreed before the sale, reducing the debt to several million - so in theory, that 8m could be enough and provide a float.

But let's hope it doesn't get to that. Two admins seems a very immoral (although legal it seems) way to spend, spend, spend without recourse. Any ordinary company would have been put out of its misery by now. The fact that Pompey may still be in business next season - unlike some of the suppliers they have shafted for the second time - sticks in the craw somewhat.

Agree another CVA they won't pay?

They would have no working capital, no bank would give them an overdraft

Nobody would give them credit (or if they do they would be mugs)

And their trust reckon all they need is £8M??

[Muguire]

Nearly £60m in debt

Don't own the stadium
Don't own the land around the stadium
Don't own the training ground
Don't own fuk all actually

Who on earth would buy them when there are other parties that they will owe money too and who own the ground etc? You wouldn't buy a football club with no assets

It would be a disgrace if they're given another CVA when they failed the original one and have all but doubled their original debt

This has to end with liquidation!!!!

[Barry the bird boggler]

Nearly £60m in debt

Don't own the stadium
Don't own the land around the stadium
Don't own the training ground
Don't own fuk all actually

Who on earth would buy them when there are other parties that they will owe money too and who own the ground etc? You wouldn't buy a football club with no assets

It would be a disgrace if they're given another CVA when they failed the original one and have all but doubled their original debt

This has to end with liquidation!!!!

And therefore a reprieve for (currently) one of Hereford or Macclesfield.

[Mr Angry]

Nearly £60m in debt

Don't own the stadium
Don't own the land around the stadium
Don't own the training ground
Don't own fuk all actually

Who on earth would buy them when there are other parties that they will owe money too and who own the ground etc? You wouldn't buy a football club with no assets

It would be a disgrace if they're given another CVA when they failed the original one and have all but doubled their original debt

This has to end with liquidation!!!!

Neatly sums it up....

[On High]

Portsmouth administrators' report reveals £58m debt

A report published by administrators PKF has revealed that Portsmouth owe £58m, £20m more than when the club came out of administration in October 2010.

Of that, £38m is owed for the purchase of the club from the previous administrators, UHY Hacker Young.

A further £10.5m investment made by Vladimir Antonov's Convers Sports Initiatives (CSI) remains outstanding.

Players are due £3.5m in wages and bonuses for the last two seasons, while £2.3m is owed to Revenue and Customs.

Additionaly, £3.7m is owed for general trade.

The report also shows that they have so far spent 1,652 hours dealing with the administration, at a cost of £525,000, which they have not yet been paid.

Trevor Birch, chief administrator at PKF, stated earlier on Wednesday that he had received no firm offers to buy the club, and that liquidation was still a real possibility.

Sorry, I have no great understanding of these things and am confused!

Which parts of these debts are still owed to Chainrai and Gaydamak?

How come the previous administrators are owed the money for the previous purchase? Did they let Antonov take over without actually receiving any cash? If so, surely that should be their loss!

How can £10.5m 'investment that remains outstanding' be a debt of the club? Surely they have never received this to spend, or the debt would be to someone else?

And please liquidise them

[facaldaqui]

And please liquidise them

You'd need a big liquidiser.

[6ft Kerplunk]

This is a football club. They won't get liquidated. Wrong but probably true.