Hillsborough

[TheMaraudingDog]

How was Heysel resolved? Juve don't think it was.

[Extended-Phenotype]

No worries, TSW. Question of semantics; with Hillsborough, nobody intentionally set out to kill people, but people should be held accountable for the accidental deaths of 96 supporters. And as crowds act like crowds and consist of the same cross section of young, old, good and bad, it's ludicrous those in charge that day have basically said "Stupid general public! It's their fault!"

Heysel was different. That's a bunch of c/nts charging another bunch of c/nts and folk getting crushed by a wall collapsing.

Anyway, I can't fall out with someone on today of all days, especially with a user with a name like yours.

[TheMaraudingDog]

Im not sure how Scousers can campaign with a straight face justice for Hillsborough while at the same time refusing to acknowledge that 100's should be on manslaughter charges.

[Extended-Phenotype]

How was Heysel resolved? Juve don't think it was.

The entire blame for the incident was laid on Liverpool hooligans, and the club and this country accepted accountability. After an investigation, English clubs were banned from European competition for five years. British police undertook a thorough investigation to bring justice to the perpetrators. Arrests that could be made, were made and sentences served.

Hillsborough on the other hand, nobody has accepted liability for the negligent crowd management which occurred before, during and after the disaster, and no justice has been brought.

Police and authorities are responsible for the deaths of innocent football fans and decades on they are still free of accountability.

So yeah, not sure what either incident has in common – although you could say allowing people to roam freely around a ground so the scum from either side could come together to congregate at contact points is as shit-poor management as the decisions made at Hillsborough.

Other than that, it’s a pretty ignorant and transparent trolling device, unless you seriously think a mother campaigning for the truth about the death of her son should be abandoned because some thugs supporting the same team caused a tragedy 4 years earlier.

That's a pretty weird attitude.

[TheMaraudingDog]

About 5 people were lifted at random for Heysel as a token gesture and how dare you Say Liverpool accepted responsibility. They blamed Chelsea then dragged the whole of England down with them.

Before they carry on with their j496 they should ensure that each and every marauding Liverpool fan is brought to justice.

Ironically there must be some Heysel chargers that want j496.

Hypocritical, evil, vile scum. Id make the list longer only Im on my phone chasing a golf ball around right now.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Something like 20 people or so were sentenced. Can’t remember exact figure. Not sure it was easy to sentence more; sure they would if they could. Let’s say I agree with you and justice wasn’t done here either.

I still think it’s a weird attitude to champion justice failing again, and even weirder being happy that non-hooligans are punished because of hooligans.

Justice or no justice at Heysel (debatable), your point is still peculiar.

[Royal With Cheese]

Just the rantings of a derranged fisherman that still lives with his mum.

[No Fixed Abode]

I think 14 people were sentenced for Heysel. However, why do we never hear anything from Liverpool on the anniversary of it? You may say it's because justice was served, but what about remembering those Juve fans that were killed? Liverpool could and should do more for it as a club, but they don't. It's the stadiums faults to most Liverpool fans. And why were there no incidences at Heysel prior to this?

As for Hillsbrough - yes police were at fault, but there is also evidence to say there were many fans in the vicinity of the away end who were drunk, trying to jib in and causing a crush outside the ground. Some of these Liverpool fans campaigning for J496 are guilty of indecent public behaviour which led to the death of fellow Liverpool fans. And why were there no incidences at HIllsbrough prior to this?

[superreadingfan]

did liverpool pay reparations for the actions of the majority of their fans that lead to many family friendly clubs lose out on seeing european football?

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think 14 people were sentenced for Heysel. However, why do we never hear anything from Liverpool on the anniversary of it? You may say it's because justice was served, but what about remembering those Juve fans that were killed? Liverpool could and should do more for it as a club, but they don't.

There have been one (or two?) commemorative matches, a permanent memorial and a remembrance day since 2000. Not enough? I couldn’t agree more. Still don’t see the relevance.

And why were there no incidences at Heysel prior to this?

People don’t build ruins, you know. Things decay. It was a condemned structure by 1985 and this match was the last of it’s kind to be played there. One game too many, and one game too big for it by this time. What’s your point?

As for Hillsbrough - yes police were at fault, but there is also evidence to say there were many fans in the vicinity of the away end who were drunk, trying to jib in and causing a crush outside the ground.

Are you saying Liverpool fans the only fans in existence to have drunkards among them and that the authorities were caught off guard by this unique intoxication?

And why were there no incidences at HIllsbrough prior to this?

There was. 1981 semi-final between Spurs and Wolves. This inspired the design change (the pens) which didn’t work and caused many complaints, especially when they were promoted and had to accommodate bigger crowds. Throw in some negligent management? Cue the disaster we discuss now.


Heysel has nothing to do with Hillsborough. Hillsborough has nothing to do with Liverpool. Justice is justice.

Your Dad dies in the crash of bus driven by a drunk; justice should be ignored because another passenger was a violent thug? It’s just a surreal point you are making.

[Royal With Cheese]

Don't bother EP - he's just an attention seeking twat who goes through this every year.

[TheMaraudingDog]

1000's of teams in Europe have played probably over 1m games yet 2 out of the worst 10 football disasters have involved Liverpool supporters.

That can not be a coincidence.

[Extended-Phenotype]

If he has a point, I'm happy to discuss it.

Not looking good though.

[Extended-Phenotype]

1000's of teams in Europe have played probably over 1m games yet 2 out of the worst 10 football disasters have involved Liverpool supporters.

That can not be a coincidence.

Why?

[MmmMonsterMunch]

My 2 pence worth:

IMO Liverpool love playing the victim when they really ought to look at bit closer to home at their fans' behaviour when on away days. If you don't have a ticket you don't try & get in!

Yes Hillsborough was awful & the police got it horribly wrong but seems like the Scousers haven't learnt..

Surprised no one has mentioned the CL final in Athens. They were an utter disgrace.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/5 ... cket-chaos

[superreadingfan]

i've been to concerts and sporting events around the world (look at me) ive never seen anyone die

[Extended-Phenotype]

I BIN ON A TRAIN B4 AND IT DIDN CRASHES LOL

[Silver Fox]

I think 14 people were sentenced for Heysel. However, why do we never hear anything from Liverpool on the anniversary of it?

Posibly for the same reasons we don't hear much from Nottingham Forest on the anniversary of Hillsborough

[Extended-Phenotype]

What difference does that make when accounts showed that the total number of people who had already entered the Leppings Lane End was far below the capacity of the stand?

The point is, the Liverpool fans couldn’t fit into the 1 pen they were guided towards when they were supposed to be stewarded into 5.

The whole world could have gone to watch Liverpool that day with no ticket, and it wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference. This wasn’t about people cramming into a full capacity stadium.

It’s fun to debate and all, but I do find it odd that nobody on the “it’s the peoples fault” side of the debate seems to even know what happened. I’d thought that would be the first step; seems odd to get mad about a story BEFORE you’ve read it.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Was it fairly unique to Liverpool that somehow their fans had got the wind of forging tickets successfully/gaining entry to a ground without a ticket and it just became a norm to them? Something that other clubs fans hadn't had the necessity to do (as they didnt have as many HUGE games as Liverpool) or just hadn't cottoned on to yet?

there's no evidence at all that Liverpool fans were getting into the ground with forged tickets.

somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that at the time of the disaster the Leppings Lane End (as in the whole end) hadn't even reached capacity.

The idea that hundreds of extra fans cause the disaster by overfilling the end is just wrong.


It is kind of funny the TMD has Liverpool down as scum for their supposedly reprehensible behaviour on the day, yet pre-match drinking, jibbing and a bit of aggro are things he holds in high regard.