Euro 2012 - Group Stages

[cmonurz]

I actually like Clive Tyldesley, he’s got a good commentary voice.

[Vision]

The way people are talking about Carroll you'd think he must have scored from every header he's ever attempted. He must have scored mountains of headers in the last 12 months or so...

[cmonurz]

The way people are talking about Carroll you'd think he must have scored from every header he's ever attempted. He must have scored mountains of headers in the last 12 months or so...

Not at all, but there's been a marked improvement in his performances, and that's the pretty simple reason why people are rating his abilities more highly.

Plus that was one hell of a header against Sweden.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I still think with Rooney in for Carroll we swapped functional for creativity and actually looked poorer because of it.

[cmonurz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18514347

Lots of love for Stevie G.

[Vision]

The way people are talking about Carroll you'd think he must have scored from every header he's ever attempted. He must have scored mountains of headers in the last 12 months or so...

Not at all, but there's been a marked improvement in his performances, and that's the pretty simple reason why people are rating his abilities more highly.

Plus that was one hell of a header against Sweden.

One admittedly cracking header.

Off the top of my head (pun ahoy) he missed a sitter against Norway and one in the cup final in the last few weeks. He's improved alright and I dont want to knock him but theres no real evidence that he's any less likely to miss headed chances than Rooney. There's also no evidence in his movement that would suggest he's more likely to find the space to get the chances Rooney did either.

It's more the assumption he'd somehow have automatically scored in that game just because Rooney missed a couple of chances that I have a problem with.

[Gordons Cumming]

I actually like Clive Tyldesley, he’s got a good commentary voice.

Talks crap at times though......................

[Starfish]

The German Football (mostly) magazine 'Kicker' made a slideshow list of their 11 tops & flops (not in any particular order) for the group stages and posted them online the other day. A deal of focus on Germany obviously, but another perspective.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/em/s ... runde.html

Very basic translations of what they say below. Lucas Podolski stat is a decent future Quiz question.

Tops
1. Ibrahimovic's goal against France
2. Irish fans against Spain
3. Mario Gomez's on the field answer to criticism back home
4. Germany's right backs
5. The passionate Greeks
6. Spain's defensive prowess
7. Roy Hodgson
8. The weather
9. The return of Italy
10. Welbeck's goal against Sweden
11. Lucas Podolski wins 100 caps (younger than any player in European history)

Flops.
1. Goalline officials
2. Trouble in warsaw between Russian and Polish fans
3. UEFA's control of what we're seeing on our TVs
4. Konstantinos Chialkis - the Greek goalkeeper received the worst rating in the Group stages of all players at Euro 2012
5. Poland's early exit
6. The Dutch - 0 points
7. UEFA's fines
8. The weather
9. Racism
10. The egoism of Ludovic Obraniak
11. Group stages being decided on a head-to-head basis

[Hoop Blah]

Of course there is no guarantee that Carroll would've got himself into the same positions to miss/score as Rooney did, he certainly failed to attack the right areas enough for Liverpool this season (and I'm a bit of a Carroll fan).

Rooney is a must for this team. He looked rusty at times, but some of his one and two touch play against Ukraine was still excellent and created some of the space that Gerrard and others used well. Carroll presents different options and problems, as do Defoe and Welbeck, so it just goes to show how Hodgson picked a pretty well balanced squad IMO (I'd still have taken another forward and not ended up playing Young up front though).

[Simon's Church]

I did wonder if it was some kind of record when Podolski got to 100 caps, potentially still got 7-8 years in him as well

[cmonurz]

And a mere 44 goals too. He'll go past Klinsmann soon and then will just have to hunt down Klose and Muller.

Ronaldo has 93 caps aged 27, and Schweinsteiger 91. Messi is on 70 caps and isn't 25 until next week.

[Royal Rother]

Of course there is no guarantee that Carroll would've got himself into the same positions to miss/score as Rooney did, he certainly failed to attack the right areas enough for Liverpool this season (and I'm a bit of a Carroll fan).

Rooney is a must for this team. He looked rusty at times, but some of his one and two touch play against Ukraine was still excellent and created some of the space that Gerrard and others used well. Carroll presents different options and problems, as do Defoe and Welbeck, so it just goes to show how Hodgson picked a pretty well balanced squad IMO (I'd still have taken another forward and not ended up playing Young up front though).

Greaves was a must in 1966.

Rooney has not performed well in a major tournament since 2004, and in fact was bloody awful in 2010. To me, Tuesday night was depressingly reminiscent of his contributions in South Africa. He should have been rested and raring to go not "rusty" which is being used by every man and his dog as some kind of an excuse for the bloke.

Frankly it's a pathetic excuse. Crap sums it up so much better. And accurately.

I hope, but do not have great expectations, that he will be better on Sunday. Recent history at tournaments suggests I am wise to be cautious.

[Maguire]

Of course there is no guarantee that Carroll would've got himself into the same positions to miss/score as Rooney did, he certainly failed to attack the right areas enough for Liverpool this season (and I'm a bit of a Carroll fan).

Rooney is a must for this team. He looked rusty at times, but some of his one and two touch play against Ukraine was still excellent and created some of the space that Gerrard and others used well. Carroll presents different options and problems, as do Defoe and Welbeck, so it just goes to show how Hodgson picked a pretty well balanced squad IMO (I'd still have taken another forward and not ended up playing Young up front though).

Greaves was a must in 1966.

Rooney has not performed well in a major tournament since 2004, and in fact was bloody awful in 2010. To me, Tuesday night was depressingly reminiscent of his contributions in South Africa. He should have been rested and raring to go not "rusty" which is being used by every man and his dog as some kind of an excuse for the bloke.

Frankly it's a pathetic excuse. Crap sums it up so much better. And accurately.

I hope, but do not have great expectations, that he will be better on Sunday. Recent history at tournaments suggests I am wise to be cautious.

Injured in 2006, didn't play in 2008. So basically had a shit World Cup in SA? Yep, would agree with that.

What you don't understand as someone who doesn't play any sport, is that having a month off doesn't make you "fresh and raring to go", it means you're not match fit. The only way to attain that is to play matches, which is why 80 mins against Ukraine was beneficial, even if he didn't play to his potential.

[Extended-Phenotype]

^ Fair points, but I think the more important argument is:

1. Carroll vs Rusty Rooney
2. Has playing Ukraine changed Rooney from rusty to match fit?
3. Is he ever going to play well enough for England to justify changing our tactics from the functionality we saw earn us a draw against the French and a win over the Swedes?

I must say I'd be tempted by 'Carroll', 'no' and 'no'.

[blindedbythelights]

Missing Irish fan found face down in a river

RIP in peace sweet prince

[Maguire]

^ Fair points, but I think the more important argument is:

1. Carroll vs Rusty Rooney
2. Has playing Ukraine changed Rooney from rusty to match fit?
3. Is he ever going to play well enough for England to justify changing our tactics from the functionality we saw earn us a draw against the French and a win over the Swedes?

I must say I'd be tempted by 'Carroll', 'no' and 'no'.

Be a brave manager who drops Rooney, even if there is mileage in your argument.

[Hoop Blah]

Perhaps in the short term, Carroll v Rooney against Ukraine would be Carroll, but I'm terms of getting our best goalscorer, creative player, and most talented individual more up to speed for the knockout games I think it was a no brainier really.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Be a brave manager who drops Rooney, even if there is mileage in your argument.

Imagine the kudos if he started Carroll and he scored, though.

Massive balls required though, agreed.

[Royal Rother]

Of course there is no guarantee that Carroll would've got himself into the same positions to miss/score as Rooney did, he certainly failed to attack the right areas enough for Liverpool this season (and I'm a bit of a Carroll fan).

Rooney is a must for this team. He looked rusty at times, but some of his one and two touch play against Ukraine was still excellent and created some of the space that Gerrard and others used well. Carroll presents different options and problems, as do Defoe and Welbeck, so it just goes to show how Hodgson picked a pretty well balanced squad IMO (I'd still have taken another forward and not ended up playing Young up front though).

Greaves was a must in 1966.

Rooney has not performed well in a major tournament since 2004, and in fact was bloody awful in 2010. To me, Tuesday night was depressingly reminiscent of his contributions in South Africa. He should have been rested and raring to go not "rusty" which is being used by every man and his dog as some kind of an excuse for the bloke.

Frankly it's a pathetic excuse. Crap sums it up so much better. And accurately.


And as for the no-brainer HB refers to - it really was that way in 1966 with Jimmy Greaves.

I hope, but do not have great expectations, that he will be better on Sunday. Recent history at tournaments suggests I am wise to be cautious.

Injured in 2006, didn't play in 2008. So basically had a shit World Cup in SA? Yep, would agree with that.

What you don't understand as someone who doesn't play any sport, is that having a month off doesn't make you "fresh and raring to go", it means you're not match fit. The only way to attain that is to play matches, which is why 80 mins against Ukraine was beneficial, even if he didn't play to his potential.

Yes, I already know you buy into this not-match-fit line, but I really don't think a month off the pitch is going to make much difference. It's not as if he's been away from football is it? He's been in the (hopefully) charged atmosphere of an England training camp preparing for, and involved in, one of the biggest tournaments in the world.

So how many more games will it be before he's fit enough to realise his potential? If it's known and accepted that he was not going to be able to contribute much, if anything, to the Group stages, was it really worthwhile taking him in the 1st place? One 85 minute game is not suddenly going to transform him from being unfit into the world-beater we once hoped he would be, is it?

Which is preferable? Have no break, like the rest of the squad who have come off a long hard season and virtually carried straight on through - or have a good break from competitive football being given the time to work on fitness, both physical and mental....

The 1st round of games in the PL each summer still seem to be played at a million miles an hour with nobody keeling over with cramp or complaining of not being match fit.

[Hoop Blah]

It's not fitness, it's sharpness. That only comes from playing, and even friendlies and reserve games don't really get you that real edge because nobody is playing at full pelt or making proper challenges.