Euro 2012 - Group Stages

[Maguire]

I really don't think a month off the pitch is going to make much difference

You don't think you lose match fitness by not playing matches for a month
What on earth do you think match fitness means? You can't replace it with a friendly and a bit of shooting practice in Poland.

If it's known and accepted that he was not going to be able to contribute much, if anything, to the Group stages, was it really worthwhile taking him in the 1st place?

It's almost like he hasn't just scored the winner in his first game back

[Royal Rother]

It's not fitness, it's sharpness. That only comes from playing, and even friendlies and reserve games don't really get you that real edge because nobody is playing at full pelt or making proper challenges.

So how is it that

The 1st round of games in the PL each summer still seem to be played at a million miles an hour with nobody keeling over with cramp or complaining of not being match fit.

when, after having had 2 months off on a beach putting on a stone in weight, all they've done is play a series of friendlies / kickabouts?

I think there's too much emphasis being placed on the "match fitness" thing. It's often used as a brilliantly convenient excuse for sub-standard performances whereas when someone like Le Fondre plays bugger all football for weeks on end then leaps up off the bench looking as sharp as he's ever done in his life, nobody gives it a moment's thought.

[Royal Rother]

I really don't think a month off the pitch is going to make much difference

You don't think you lose match fitness by not playing matches for a month
What on earth do you think match fitness means? You can't replace it with a friendly and a bit of shooting practice in Poland.

If it's known and accepted that he was not going to be able to contribute much, if anything, to the Group stages, was it really worthwhile taking him in the 1st place?

It's almost like he hasn't just scored the winner in his first game back

Forget that, it's irrelevant. That was not good movement or striker's instinct - he was just dead lucky to be in the right place at the right time. The cross touched 3 defenders before it reached him.

The rest of his display was that of a player completely out of form. Shit, even complete cack like Torres still scores the occasional goal.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Forget that, it's irrelevant. That was not good movement or striker's instinct - he was just dead lucky to be in the right place at the right time. The cross touched 3 defenders before it reached him.

Massively lucky to have left the near post and moved to the far post at just the right time, Odd how some strikers seem to be consistently luckier than others.

I'm no Rooney fan, but to suggest that his positioning for the goal was sheer blind luck is quite ludicrous!

[Hoop Blah]

So how is it that

The 1st round of games in the PL each summer still seem to be played at a million miles an hour with nobody keeling over with cramp or complaining of not being match fit.

when, after having had 2 months off on a beach putting on a stone in weight, all they've done is play a series of friendlies / kickabouts?

I think there's too much emphasis being placed on the "match fitness" thing. It's often used as a brilliantly convenient excuse for sub-standard performances whereas when someone like Le Fondre plays bugger all football for weeks on end then leaps up off the bench looking as sharp as he's ever done in his life, nobody gives it a moment's thought.

They run themselves into fitness, so stamina isn't really an issue no, but I think it's pretty clear that early games aren't quite the same level of performance as later in the season when everyone is at full speed.

Everyone is in the same boat as well so you don't get the same disparity between a fully 'match fit' player and those coming in from a bit of a lay off.

In terms of Le Fondre, some players are pretty well adapted to it and get used to coming off the bench or not being involved. Being on for 15/20 minutes here or there doesn't expose you to so many touches either, so you can probably hide it easier and, I'd probably argue that he doesn't have those massive lay offs you say he has. He's played a pretty consistent amount of time, but just not for long periods of time on the pitch. It's a nack that some players have, that doesn't mean all players have it in the same was as not all players can spank in a free kick like Ian Harte.

[Hoop Blah]

The rest of his display was that of a player completely out of form. Shit, even complete cack like Torres still scores the occasional goal.

I think you should watch the game again if you genuinely believe that RR.

He made some pretty poor choices (late on) and some bad touches (throughout) but who didn't? He still moved the ball around better than most on either side at times and was still more of a threat than Welbeck in that game or Young in the France game, despite having what some would like to call a shocker.

[Silver Fox]

Forget that, it's irrelevant. That was not good movement or striker's instinct - he was just dead lucky to be in the right place at the right time. The cross touched 3 defenders before it reached him.

You might want to sit the next few plays out there champ

[TBM]

Alan Shearer >>>>>>>>>>> Royal Rother

He may be a dullard but he was a quality striker - even he was praising Rooney's positioning/movement

[Extended-Phenotype]

Arriving at the backstick when a cross goes in?

Surely only GOD could have such vision and ability.

[Royal Rother]

Forget that, it's irrelevant. That was not good movement or striker's instinct - he was just dead lucky to be in the right place at the right time. The cross touched 3 defenders before it reached him.

You might want to sit the next few plays out there champ

Err, yeah sure. I guess that's an adapted line from a shit American movie, right?

[Ian Royal]

Rother, I don't think Rooney played particularly well, and I normally have a decent amount respect for what you post.. but you've somehow managed to get your head up your arse and still have a mouthful of bollocks on this subject.

Rooney, regardless of previous performance for England, is still our best striker by a long distance, our best attacker by some distance, and, though less clear cut, our best player. We've got a new manager with a new approach who by your own admission has got Gerrard, a player you don't like, performing. Why the hell shouldn't he try the same with Rooney.

Rooney was clearly lacking in full match sharpness. But he equally as clearly improved throughout the game.

He got chances. He scored. He's now sharper and ready for the knockout stage. It's an absolute no brainer that he should play against Ukraine. It worked, get the hell over it.

[Royal Rother]

It's a matter of opinion my friend. I have never minded being in the minority and, as you would expect, no amount of insults is going to change my interpretations of what I saw. Respect / disrespect the poster, not just the content of a post you disagree with.

Too many people think in cliches about football. We all know he is potentially our best player and will / should improve as a result of the match against Ukraine. In fact I was one of the first to say exactly that a few pages back but the be-all, end-all match-fit bollox won't wash it with me. He shouldn't have been as far off the pace as he was - particularly if he is supposed to be as good as people make out.

Believe the evidence of your eyes - he was as poor on Monday as he was in South Africa - why some seek excuses for that is a mystery to me.

[Maguire]

If it's known and accepted that he was not going to be able to contribute much, if anything, to the Group stages, was it really worthwhile taking him in the 1st place?

It's almost like he hasn't just scored the winner in his first game back

Forget that, it's irrelevant

Well if you're just going to dismiss all his contributions out of hand then no wonder you think he didn't contribute anything

[Royal Rother]

Yes, well at least it's provided some entertainment anyway.

Onwards and upwards hopefully for Our Wayne.

[TBM]

Thing is Welbeck had a worse game than Rooney so why not him that makes way for Carroll?!

[Franchise FC]

Thing is Welbeck had a worse game than Rooney so why not him that makes way for Carroll?!

At least Welbeck had the excuse that he's young and will get better.
I'm not convinced that we haven't already seen the best of Rooney.

I hope I'm wrong, but he stills seems to be a red card waiting to happen - and I know he got booked only once (I think) in the Premier League season, but in general at Man Utd he's playing for a team that have the ball, not one that's chasing it.

[TBM]

That's a maybe with Welbeck but it doesn't mean be should start ahead of Rooney against Italy, if Rother is saying Carroll should play.

[Royal Rother]

Welbeck was indeed very poor and should make way for Carroll IMO.

[Hoop Blah]

I imagine it will, rightly, be a tactical decision over who partners Rooney against Italy, and not just a who played better in the last game 'knee jerk' reaction.

Italy look vulnerable at the back to me, but I'm not sure which of the two will cause them more trouble.

[Royal Rother]

Yes, but Hodgson gets paid huge sums of money for making his decisions whereas I just post on here for a bit of fun.