Euro 2012 - Knockout Stages

[Hoop Blah]

Well for one the Burton thing would appear to be a step in the right direction and something that should have been done 20 odd years ago. Also restructuring the game at kids level so that they perhaps work with balls, teams and pitch sizes that are commensurate with their age. I also believe there is a lot to be said for starting kids out with playing a slightly deflated ball that's harder to control so that the basics of technique and control can be brought to the fore as ealy as possible. Next, as they get older, I'd also encourage players getting to understand all positions and ateach them to understand 442, 433, 541 and 532 so that they have flexibility to understand the changes required in playing in those formations.

That actually makes it easier to control, but harder to pass or hit long. There is a growing Futsal playing community, which is basically 5-a-side with a smaller heavier ball that you can't hoof. It's also used as a training aid as it works on your technique and limits the amount of 'percentage football' you can play with it.

[Royal Rother]

RR - Hoddle really wasn't an excellent communicator. His time in charge of England suggested that it was one of the worst facets of his game.

Maybe he's the one that just nods sagely in the background then as the other 2 take the lead!

But my impression was it was specifically man management rather than more general communication skills he lacked?

[Hoop Blah]

I've a lot of time for Hoddle. He possibly got the England job too early, before he had enough experience with players and mellowed a tad, but he was also hounded out my the media when doing a very good job.

He and El Tel were very good England managers and it's a shame our media (another part of the bigger problem) caused them to have too short a time in the job.

[Bandini]

Not sure that those two skills are really that distinct in this context...

[frimmers3]

hoddle turned swindon around...kick started the revolution at chelsea,but now spends his time developing the football skills of young players abroad.i wonder why.

[frimmers3]

hoddle...now spends his time developing the football skills of young players abroad.i wonder why.

Because he kept going to psychics, was insanely superstitious, and all this was exposed for all to see, so he is considered a bit of a nutjob, do you think that could have something to do with it????????

yes. but what did any of that have to do with his ability to develop football players?

[daswonder]

England do produce technically competent players its just when they get high enough up the professional ladder it is coached out of them, Rooney and Wilshere are examples in recent times where it would look like they would break the mould. Unfortunately Ferguson trained the flair out of Rooney's game (just watch footage to see how different a player he was pre and post united move) and the physicality of the English game forced Wilshere to go from a attacking winger/forward to a central mid.

It's the coaches and managers that need to start changing their mindset for it to start change elsewhere, fortunately there are the expections in England with the likes of Rodgers, Martinez and even the likes of Holloway who have studied the european game and adapted features it into their own teams play.

[Maguire]

hoddle turned swindon around...kick started the revolution at chelsea,but now spends his time developing the football skills of young players abroad.i wonder why.

Probably because he's not good enough to get a decent job in this country.

"Kick started the revolution at Chelsea" = didn't get them higher than an 11th place finish.

Sacked by England. Sacked by Southampton.

[frimmers3]

and there best before hoddle took the reins was what? and when?

[Hoop Blah]

England do produce technically competent players its just when they get high enough up the professional ladder it is coached out of them, Rooney and Wilshere are examples in recent times where it would look like they would break the mould. Unfortunately Ferguson trained the flair out of Rooney's game (just watch footage to see how different a player he was pre and post united move) and the physicality of the English game forced Wilshere to go from a attacking winger/forward to a central mid.

It's the coaches and managers that need to start changing their mindset for it to start change elsewhere, fortunately there are the expections in England with the likes of Rodgers, Martinez and even the likes of Holloway who have studied the european game and adapted features it into their own teams play.

I do agree on the Fergie effect on Rooney, although I'm not sure it's all been bad. I have been frustrated in the past that he's moved him around and played him in odd positions for United which I've felt hasn't been the best for England or Rooney's creative development. At club level I don't think it's made him less creative though, but he is now a less spontanious player than he was at 18/19. That's possibly just natural development though.

As for Wilshire, I'm not sure moving into the middle is an escape from the physicality of the English game either. He's possibly moved into the most physical part of the pitch where you can't avoid the blood and thunder of the Premier League. I've never heard of him being a different player to the one he is now either, but I'm sure, like a lot of talented kids, he would've played in more attacking roles as a youngster when he'd have been winning games on his own further up the pitch (eg Ashley Cole used to be a centre forward as a nipper, but that's just because playing left back wouldn't have been winning his schoolboy teams games).

[Maguire]

and there best before hoddle took the reins was what? and when?

"Their"

They finished 11th the season before Hoddle took over. Hoddle managed finishes of 14th, 11th, and 11th again.

Gullit came in the season after Hoddle left and immediately took them to a 6th place finish.

Started the revoLOLution

[frimmers3]

i think that makes my point. "started the revolution". myopia seems to be endemic in your quarter.

[Ian Royal]

Ashley Young has to take a penalty, otherwise he wouldn't have been kept on.
I assume Gerrard and Rooney as well?
So who are the last two, Carroll and Cole?

Terry, Rooney, Gerrard, Young, Carroll.

Underlined to definitely miss.

This amused me, Ian.

Yeah, that one kinda backfired a bit didn't it!

[Hoop Blah]

and there best before hoddle took the reins was what? and when?

"Their"

They finished 11th the season before Hoddle took over. Hoddle managed finishes of 14th, 11th, and 11th again.

Gullit came in the season after Hoddle left and immediately took them to a 6th place finish.

Started the revoLOLution

To be fair though, and as much as it pains me to side with frimmers on anything, he did.

It was Hoddle who attracted the likes of Guilit to the club and got their young players playing good football. He laid the foundations for everything that followed really. They went from signing the likes of Nick Colgan, Nigel Spackman and Mick Harford to Rocastle, Gullit and Hughes, to Vialli, Lebouef and Petrescu by the time he left.

[Broxroyal]

there was a time when england could have fielded the likes of hoddle,waddle,gascoigne and le tiss..but their faces did not fit.better the journeymen the f.a approved.god knows he had his demons and faults,but had brian clough been given reign to oversee a team built around those guys(and others not mentioned) we might still be on a honeymoon rather than bridesmaids.

For those with even loner memories, there was a time (in the '70s) when we had Tony Currie and Alan Hudson but preferred to play Trevor Cherry in midfield for England.
Now we don't produce players like Currie or Hudson.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Glenn Hoddle remains the best England manager in the last 40 years. Totally suited to international Management. Even had the balls to rightly drop Gascoigne against pretty much everyone elses opinion at the time. Sacked for being a bit odd.

[Maguire]

and there best before hoddle took the reins was what? and when?

"Their"

They finished 11th the season before Hoddle took over. Hoddle managed finishes of 14th, 11th, and 11th again.

Gullit came in the season after Hoddle left and immediately took them to a 6th place finish.

Started the revoLOLution

To be fair though, and as much as it pains me to side with frimmers on anything, he did.

It was Hoddle who attracted the likes of Guilit to the club and got their young players playing good football. He laid the foundations for everything that followed really. They went from signing the likes of Nick Colgan, Nigel Spackman and Mick Harford to Rocastle, Gullit and Hughes, to Vialli, Lebouef and Petrescu by the time he left.

Gullit signed Vialli and Leboeuf IIRC. Petrescu came from the (presumably equally as progressive, Sheffield Wednesday).

At the end of the day, Frimmers is a doe-eyed Spurs fans heaping praise upon one of his favourite players from his 30s. There's a reason Hoddle is coaching failed footballers in the sunshine and not holding down a top job in the UK, and it's a bit fanciful to suggest he was a better footballer than the 1998 squad even when he was manager.

Still, weirdos attract weirdos I guess.

[tulip]

England do produce technically competent players its just when they get high enough up the professional ladder it is coached out of them, Rooney and Wilshere are examples in recent times where it would look like they would break the mould. Unfortunately Ferguson trained the flair out of Rooney's game (just watch footage to see how different a player he was pre and post united move) and the physicality of the English game forced Wilshere to go from a attacking winger/forward to a central mid.

It's the coaches and managers that need to start changing their mindset for it to start change elsewhere, fortunately there are the expections in England with the likes of Rodgers, Martinez and even the likes of Holloway who have studied the european game and adapted features it into their own teams play.

I agree with this. Also the fans in England don't seem to want to watch possession football. There were many complaints on here during the Spain games about them being boring.

[Bandini]

Glenn Hoddle remains the best England manager in the last 40 years. Totally suited to international Management. Even had the balls to rightly drop Gascoigne against pretty much everyone elses opinion at the time. Sacked for being a bit odd.

He was sacked when he'd lost the dressing room with his weirdness merely the catalyst.

[Maguire]

Oh yeah, the game.

Totally predictable really. Italy much the superior side whilst being mercifully appalling up front (some credit to our back five for this - they all had good tournaments).

Decent first half hour then just dropped and dropped, conceded possession and didn't threaten to score. I do agree with Roy Hodgson in the sense that statistics don't tell you everything. Possession in front of your defence isn't all that important, and Italy didn't create - for all their shots - much in the way of genuine chances.

Does mean you getting fooking tired though and Gerrard cramping up on 71 minutes just proved it. It's not a sustainable style of football in a tournament when you have to play every few days.