Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Wimb]

Bradford Bulls into administration, and say they face liquidation in 10 days.

pfffft GTFO GF

[Deadlock]

Should never have changed their name from Bradford Northern.

[Wimb]

Isn't that the hat-trick of financial troubles for teams in Bradford? With City, Park Avenue and now the Bulls all having big problems in the last 50 years?

[Uke]

Isn't that the hat-trick of financial troubles for teams in Bradford? With City, Park Avenue and now the Bulls all having big problems in the last 50 years?

It's like a fire sale

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

Isn't that the hat-trick of financial troubles for teams in Bradford? With City, Park Avenue and now the Bulls all having big problems in the last 50 years?

It's like a fire sale

/\ Uh oh.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

And can someone explain how the calculation above works, in practice.

Original debt was millions, now it is only a few hundred thousand. What does that mean? Who agrees on creditors’ behalf to accept such measly sums for the debt? Is the problem not the FL which is, after all, protecting the club and fans, but the likes of HMRC and other creditors who simply don’t act strongly enough in demanding full repayment of their debt?

As far as I'm aware it's to do with whether the creditors think they'll get more from the liquidation process or by accepting a CVA. They can demand they get paid back in full but the club can turn around and do as Rangers have done and declare themselves bankrupt and just fold.

HMRC usually accept the CVA as it's better than nothing but they've got pissed off in recent years due to clubs seemingly using administration/CVAs as a way to wrack up big tax debts.

HMRC as a policy will oppose every settlement which gives them less than 100%.

But votes in a settlement are proportinate to the total debt owed, and a settlement only needs 75% of votes to carry it, so if HMRC has 25% or less they can't block it.

What is distrubing is the practice of a settlement which promises future money to creditors in the event of future promotions etc. The last Portsmouth settlement had that.

[bigmike]

[bigmike]

St Johnston have just announced that they are voting against Newco Rangers being admitted into the SPL.

Thats 6 votes against - so far - so Newco Rangers WON'T be playing in the SPL next season.

St Johnstone
Hearts
Hibs
Dundee Utd
Aberdeen
Inverness

The ongoing uncertainty surrounding Rangers has been an unwelcome distraction which has had an adverse effect on both participating SPL Clubs and Scottish Football in general.

The present economic climate has made it extremely difficult for anyone involved in football and any reduction in income will have a serious impact on this Football Club.

Notwithstanding the potentially damaging financial implications, the Board believes that sporting integrity should not be sacrificed in favour of economic expediency.

Over the last few weeks there has been a mounting groundswell of opinion amongst our fans which has clearly shown that the vast majority of our supporters would not favour an application by newco Rangers to the SPL. This has simply reaffirmed the Board's position.

It is important that a clear and unambiguous message goes out from the custodians of Scottish Football that this sort of scenario should never be allowed to happen again.

As a result, St Johnstone Football Club will not support an application by newco Rangers to join the SPL.

We would urge all St Johnstone fans to get behind the Club and offer their support in the challenging season which lies ahead.

It seems that the important part for St Johnstone is sporting integrity should not be sacrificed in favour of economic expediency.

Geoff Brown has always run St Johnstone within their means cutting cloth and all that jazz and he has since handed the club over to his son since he retired. It seems that Steven Brown has the same morales as his father which is a good thing.

I do think that this has the potential to put a few clubs to the wall. It will affect Saints but being as they are extemely well run and they have lived within their means for such a long time I dont think it will affect them too badly. Also being the fact that Rangers have gone bang means that Saints have qualified for Europe cant hurt the budget. If they get past the qualifiers in to the Europa league then the money that they would have lost out to not hosting Rangers will be canceled out.

I personally think that Rangers need to apply to the SFL for admittance and if they are accepted 3rd div is where they need to start.

[MassSarrslibrarian]

I think, if the SPL clubs do indeed carry out their threat to vote against rangers then it shows big cahones to almost cut off one of your biggest revenue makers in the national game....but Rangers, and any club in a similar postion in the future need to realise,is that NOONE is bigger than the game itself, and the rules in which it is governed by. Fiorentina in italy found that out several years ago, and had to work their way back up from Serie C II (division 4) in italy-so for Rangers, or Newco Rangers, or Club12 or Bury Rangers, whatever you want to call them should accept the same treatment..

But then again, Serie A is a much bigger league with (and no disrespect to Scotland, much bigger clubs, so perhaps the absence of Fiorentina at the time was not that noticeable...however the rest of SPL will want to pretend, Rangers absence will be VERY noticeable

[Ian Royal]

Ta. I guess what I’m asking is if HMRC said, ‘ummm, no, we want all or most of the money you owe us’, would Pompey be fcuked?

It's the other creditors that cause the problem in accepting the CVA. So anyone owed less than £2500 will probably go for it as they usually are told they'll get paid in full. I don't know if the players are included - I expect so, they'll vote for it as they're guaranteed to get their money if the club keeps going. If it folds the FL / PL rules are a bit irrelevant as the club ceases to exist, so at that point they can start worrying about not being paid in full.

And then there's the mysterious debts that appear and are owed to companies owned by the owner, prospective owner, or his mates.

[Royal Monk]

Because of the football creditors rule the players contracts will be paid in full if liquidation occurs, this is why none of the top earners at portsmuff have left. Who in their right mind would turn their back on some of the contracts at portsmuff .... Ie Dave Kitson £20,000 a week

[Ian Royal]

Because of the football creditors rule the players contracts will be paid in full if liquidation occurs, this is why none of the top earners at portsmuff have left. Who in their right mind would turn their back on some of the contracts at portsmuff .... Ie Dave Kitson £20,000 a week

But surely, if the club is liquidated the football creditors rule is irrelevant. If there isn't a club anymore and it's assets don't equal the debt the players can't be paid in full. And there are no sanctions the FL / PL / FA can take against a club that doesn't exist anymore. They can hardly threaten to cancel its league membership can they!

It's not UK law, it's a footballing law. As far as I'm aware anyway.

[Royal Monk]

Im pretty sure that parachute payment money has been set aside for some of the money and the FL are liable for the rest

[Deadlock]

Southampton throw Rangers out of the pre-season tournament at St. Mary's and replace them with Anderlecht.

The decision has not been made lightly and has been reached with the integrity of the competition in mind, ensuring that the annual event will remain an extremely competitive experience with both Arsenal and Anderlecht bringing along a first team squad.

This after another four Rangers players invoke their TUPE rights not to join Sevco 5088, including club captain Steven Davis.

[Deadlock]

There's a rumour now going around that East of Scotland League club Spartans, who have on several occasions applied for entry to the Scottish Football League, will take legal action if Sevco 5088 are allowed into the SFL without meeting the required criteria. Sevco cannot produce the three years of audited accounts needed. A legal challenge by the disaffected clubs would suspend the beginning of the Scottish season!

[cmonurz]

It’s beginning to look like we might genuinely be seeing the slow death of a big football club.

Two weeks ago it looked like entry to SPL was the only hurdle left, and a low one at that. Now SFL entry looks shaky, and the police are investigating the takeover. What a shambles. I have no great love for Rangers but can’t help feel a bit of sadness for the supporters of a club with a long history, not because their club is folding, but the manner in which it is doing so.

[Wimb]

It’s beginning to look like we might genuinely be seeing the slow death of a big football club.

Two weeks ago it looked like entry to SPL was the only hurdle left, and a low one at that. Now SFL entry looks shaky, and the police are investigating the takeover. What a shambles. I have no great love for Rangers but can’t help feel a bit of sadness for the supporters of a club with a long history, not because their club is folding, but the manner in which it is doing so.

It's sad but history is just that, it's history. If those thousands of fans love their club, then they can back it and be part of its rise back up through the leagues and to a level it 'belongs' The club hasn't lost any of it's history and the fans can still savour those titles, European jaunts etc but they've been built on lies and bad management and therefore the club needs to be punished for potentially denying those same pleasures to other well run and genuine clubs.

If the same happened to Reading i'd be upset but I'd still potter down to watch them in the Southern Premier League or whatever level they may be. I'd still get the same pleasure from discussing whether we should play Neil the postie at right back against Tom the 18 year old, as opposed to are we signing Pog, Sig etc.

[soggy biscuit]

They should apply to go into the English non league

7 or 8 years of English lower league to get to the prem > 3 years to get back to the same sh*t SPL they were in before

[Wimb]

They should apply to go into the English non league

7 or 8 years of English lower league to get to the prem > 3 years to get back to the same sh*t SPL they were in before

Think others have posted here before to say that they wouldn't be allowed and I can't see UEFA/SFA letting that happen without a massive massive fight.

[soggy biscuit]

They should apply to go into the English non league

7 or 8 years of English lower league to get to the prem > 3 years to get back to the same sh*t SPL they were in before

Think others have posted here before to say that they wouldn't be allowed and I can't see UEFA/SFA letting that happen without a massive massive fight.

Ah fair enough. Would always be the worry that it could open the door for Celtic to come in too, which I never ever want to happen.