Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[weybridgewanderer]

The reason we are in this mess is the guy that took over a year ago stopped paying tax and NI,

lolwut Rangers have been doging their tax bill for years m8

You know the feeling you pay your expensive tax advisers for some expensive tax advice on how you can mitigate the tax laws to your advantage. You take the advice you're given and implement it accordingly you do it for years, everything's above board and legal then all of a sudden HMRC says "oh no you can't do that we don't like it and we'd like you to give us some money we feel is due".

Well step forword one Peter Thomas Lawwell and one Eric James Riley, both members of the Celtic board. Both are members of a LLP called Inside Track3 which is allegedly a 'tax efficient film investment vehicle' or rather it was since HMRC have decided it's merely "an aggressive tax avoidance scheme" .

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Lets be honest, "sevco" could not have afforded to pay them in Div 1 or Div 3 or if we are not playing so they would have been sold anyway

If they would have been sold anyway, what other reason would they have for leaving without transferring over?

...perhaps so they can join other clubs straight away, without waiting to be sold. Maybe their contracts aren't actually all that great if they can't avoid the tax any more.

[Ian Royal]

oh, and for what its worth, I do not believe rangers will play football next season.

Spartans and Cove Rangers, who have been trying to get into the SFL for years will appeal any decision that allows sevco in

Right now I believe the club is dead

Interestingly, the SFL announced at the weekend plans for promotion/relegation from SFL Div 3. How convenient that should be mooted after 100+ years of no such concept! I wouldn't be surprised if any ambitious clubs outside of the SFL have been offered this olive branch in the future provided they do not opposed 'Rangers 2012 Ltd' entering SFL Div 3 in 2012/13.

A club the size of Rangers with all the potential for lovely lucre that comes with them not existing next season? Behave.

Or just paving the way for NewRangers to enter SFL Div 3 after winning the tier below in 12/13? Wouldn't do to have them stuck and unable to enter the league.

[Ian Royal]

I rather hoped that thus fate would behalf Pompey, but if its Rangers, so be it.

Football HAS to realise that the economics of the madhouse simply cannot go on without any jeopardy to the clubs involved in what is frankly, cheating.

If it means a club of the size, history and standing of Rangers going bust to at least make owners in the future think twice about spending money they don't have and have no intention of ever paying back, or arrogantly believing that they can avoid paying tax or NI, to finance their own bloated egos and the clamour of their fans for instant and never ending success, then thats what needs to happen.

Agreed.

TBH I just get the impression other owners will think Whyte was incompetent at cheating, or deliberately out to fold the club. And then they'll all carry on as normal.

[weybridgewanderer]

Lets be honest, "sevco" could not have afforded to pay them in Div 1 or Div 3 or if we are not playing so they would have been sold anyway

If they would have been sold anyway, what other reason would they have for leaving without transferring over?

...perhaps so they can join other clubs straight away, without waiting to be sold. Maybe their contracts aren't actually all that great if they can't avoid the tax any more.

they were paying tax on their contracts

EBTs are non contractual loans that are not subject to tax

the chances are that the clubs they will move to wlll also use tax avoidance schemes, there is every chance Reading players and drectors use tax avoidance schemes

they were paying tax on their salary, in the last 12 months whyte took the tax from them but did not pay the revenue

Just like if your employer took your tax off your waes but used the money to pay other bills rathe rthan give your tax payments to the revenue

[weybridgewanderer]

if they were going to earn less, why not move to the newco and then get a transfer, same effect but their is a transfer fee involved

the reason is if they go for free their signing on fee is higher as there is no transfer fee to pay

[Franchise FC]

if they were going to earn less, why not move to the newco and then get a transfer, same effect but their is a transfer fee involved

the reason is if they go for free their signing on fee is higher as there is no transfer fee to pay

So they agree to reducing/deferring wages to assist the club to stay in business - business goes bust anyway. Then you want them to hang around to give up the chance of a signing on fee just to help the club. I wouldn't - would you

[Flyingkiwi]

if they were going to earn less, why not move to the newco and then get a transfer, same effect but their is a transfer fee involved

the reason is if they go for free their signing on fee is higher as there is no transfer fee to pay

It might also be that the clubs they are potentially looking to join wouldn't be so interested if they had to pay some extortionate fee to Newco for their services.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Lets be honest, "sevco" could not have afforded to pay them in Div 1 or Div 3 or if we are not playing so they would have been sold anyway

If they would have been sold anyway, what other reason would they have for leaving without transferring over?

...perhaps so they can join other clubs straight away, without waiting to be sold. Maybe their contracts aren't actually all that great if they can't avoid the tax any more.

they were paying tax on their contracts

EBTs are non contractual loans that are not subject to tax

So with those stopped, would they be worse off now, or no change?

if they were going to earn less, why not move to the newco and then get a transfer, same effect but their is a transfer fee involved

the reason is if they go for free their signing on fee is higher as there is no transfer fee to pay

Is there any evidence at all to suggest that players who sign on a free get significantly higher signing on fees?

[Barry the bird boggler]

Is there an update on Birmingham's situation anywhere, are they still failing to file accounts?

[soggy biscuit]

It is quite clearly nothing at all to do with signing on fee's.

[Franchise FC]

Is there any evidence at all to suggest that players who sign on a free get significantly higher signing on fees?

Pavel Pogrebnyak ??

[Super_horns]

Not in trouble but this take-over probably saves us from any:

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/ ... _takeover/

[Mr Angry]

Hmmmm - so this has taken 2 weeks to conclude? I wonder how in depth the Due Diligence was?

Also, if I was a Hornets fan, I'd be quite upset that Sean Dyche was going to get the boot despite having done nothing wrong, and reading that article it seems that the whole set up is going to be a West Ham Mk II - and the Mk I version didn't end well....

Could be choppy waters ahead....

[Super_horns]

I agree on that but it seems the new owners have a decent record with Udinese and Granada albeit shipping a load of players into the Championship all at once isn't a great idea IMHO.

[daswonder]

I agree on that but it seems the new owners have a decent record with Udinese and Granada albeit shipping a load of players into the Championship all at once isn't a great idea IMHO.

Watford like Granada will be used as a training ground for players to end up at Udinese.

[Deadlock]

The funny smell in the SFA keeps getting worse... yesterday the 30 SFL clubs were sent a rather bizarre document pushing for Sevco 5088 to be admitted to Scottish League 1.

The "Wings Over Scotland" blog neatly dissected it here.

Without further ado, let’s take a wild and wacky journey, line by line, through the most stark-raving-bonkers, howling-at-the-moon, loopier-than-a-box-of-Fruit-Loops-looping-the-loop-over-the-Northern-Loop-Road, lights-are-on-but-the-hamster’s-got-the-house-keys, ten-sandwiches-and-seven-cans-of-lager-short-of-a-picnic, madder-than-a-bottle-of-weasels-in-a-tumble-drier, wasn’t-April-Fool’s-Day-three-months-ago?, oh-my-God-they’re-actually serious document ever issued in the history of Scottish football.

EDIT - and they also did this:-

[Super_horns]

I agree on that but it seems the new owners have a decent record with Udinese and Granada albeit shipping a load of players into the Championship all at once isn't a great idea IMHO.

Watford like Granada will be used as a training ground for players to end up at Udinese.

Well makes a change from having to sell top players to the Premiership...

[cmonurz]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012 ... vision-spl

Anyone else think Rangers might still pull this one out of the bag?

[Deadlock]

Not if Turnbull Hutton of Raith Rovers has his way. Here he is standing on the SFA's doorstep and saying clubs in the Scottish Football League are being "lied to, bullied and threatened" by the Scottish FA and Scottish Premier League...

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/109094-raith-director-we-are-being-bullied-and-lied-to-over-rangers-situation/