Back from the Game - Stoke City (H)

[CayeneMatt]

quote="CayeneMatt"]

Blah blah, tired and predictable cheap shot, blah blah radio, blah no actual attempt to say what's wrong with it blah.

Blimey, you're in a pissy mood.

1) When Harte plays well, I praise him, when I don't think he does, I criticise him. He needs to perform better all-round, he was sub-par for last season, but certainly not particularly bad. If Mills is such a poor player, why has a Championship team picked him up? I only thought he showed a lot of promise and was a better long term option than a Harte who'd started the season badly and was in / approaching his mid-30s. Of course nothing here actually tackles the content of my post other than telling me I'm wrong. Wow, insightful.

2) Yet more insightful analysis - I'm being thick because I'm concerned that someone who's had one full good season in teh championship may struggle in the Prem!? He was solid, but he is ponderous and can be too easily turned, if he's ready his good brain makes up for that, but he can be caught flatfooted - hence clumsy. And his headed clearance for their goal was poor and straight to an unmarked Stoke shit - I find it difficult to justify a better score than 6 for that.

3) Yes, casual sometimes, he played some sloppy passes, but in general was "excellent on the ball and offers a lot more in the middle".

4) Yes, I could, he was trying to bring the ball into close control to turn the defender, but his control wasn't quite good enough and he was covered by too many defenders. His heading was poor and he was generally struggling, but I saw plenty to suggest he'll be an asset. I don't think you can speak for the majority any more than I can. And I don't care whether I can see something others can't, that doesn't automatically make it wrong.

5) Just so you know, as far as I'm concerned 6 is an acceptable but slightly disappointing average score. So 6.5 is better than average. His HT talk can't have been that effective, we didn't affect the game for about 20 minutes after HT until he brought on McCleary. And I don't think he got his set up with our wingers right at KO.

You seem to have an issue with me and be looking for anything you can twist into an argument or dig at me. Because most of those points are verging on ridiculous. I don't intend to get into a long slanging match with you though, so now you've had a (half-hearted) attempt to actually put some content to your criticism, and I've answered it, I'm done.

[/quote]



The only problem I have with you is your supercilious attitude and the way you inflict your views, sorry 'analysis', on people. I could also go on about the way you talk to Snowball but thats a completely separate issue, but if you can dish out the character assassinations that freely, please don't go crying to mummy when you too receive one.

Sometimes your views can be very insightful, but there are other times when they're just plain daft. By all means criticise Harte when its deserved, I will do the same, but you dredge up the same old stereotypical shlte without any foundation. Just because your eloquent enough to construct a 3000 word diatribe doesn't necessarily mean you're right .... and as for the comments, sorry 'analysis' about Pearce. There was nothing, absoluately nothing, in the game yesterday or last season to suggest he wouldn't cut it in the PL. Not seen too many here to support you either ....

If you make your daft comments public, no matter how well they're expressed, expect a response. Though tbh, I can never be arsed to put too much effort in to it so apologies for only replying with a half hearted attempt.

[Victor Meldrew]

I know we like to play with width but it seems to me McDermott really wants Harte in the team and anything that makes his lack of pace harder to expose in a league full of pacy forwards is worth having, even if it means losing out in other areas.

Do you really think so,putting aside your long-held views on Shorey?
I think Shorey must have been injured for Harte to start as Shorey can do all that Harte can do and more IMHO.
I saw both play in the friendly at Bournemouth and based on that game alone so not substantive an argument I know but Shorey offered so much more to the attacking side of our game and was equally as bad (or good depending on your view) defensively.
Brian for all of his general excellence has his blind spots regarding certain players ,Church and HRK in particular,but he is aware that Cummings and Harte wouldn't be good enough for the Prem and that's why he swiftly bought both Gunter and Shorey.
That's my take on it FWIW.

[Ian Royal]

Re-watched their goal several times now and it looks to me like Kightly was Ledge's man, but he drifted off him into the box whilst Ledge was watching the ball out wide and moved towards it, Guthrie in place to spot it and cover by following Kightly, but instead stayed where he was. Neither Ledge or Gorkss could get to Kightly in time.

So for me, that's a combination of poor marking, a poor defensive header (under-pressure) and an absolute howler from the keeper. We better not (and won't) conceed many goals as error stroon as that or we'll be in a lot of trouble.

[CayeneMatt]

Re-watched their goal several times now and it looks to me like Kightly was Ledge's man, but he drifted off him into the box whilst Ledge was watching the ball out wide and moved towards it, Guthrie in place to spot it and cover by following Kightly, but instead stayed where he was. Neither Ledge or Gorkss could get to Kightly in time.

So for me, that's a combination of poor marking, a poor defensive header (under-pressure) and an absolute howler from the keeper. We better not (and won't) conceed many goals as error stroon as that or we'll be in a lot of trouble.

Not Harte or Pearce's fault

[Woodcote Royal]

I know we like to play with width but it seems to me McDermott really wants Harte in the team and anything that makes his lack of pace harder to expose in a league full of pacy forwards is worth having, even if it means losing out in other areas.

Do you really think so,putting aside your long-held views on Shorey?
I think Shorey must have been injured for Harte to start as Shorey can do all that Harte can do and more IMHO.
I saw both play in the friendly at Bournemouth and based on that game alone so not substantive an argument I know but Shorey offered so much more to the attacking side of our game and was equally as bad (or good depending on your view) defensively.
Brian for all of his general excellence has his blind spots regarding certain players ,Church and HRK in particular,but he is aware that Cummings and Harte wouldn't be good enough for the Prem and that's why he swiftly bought both Gunter and Shorey.
That's my take on it FWIW.

Just the fact that Harte can kick a ball with both feet makes him better all round player than Shorey and whilst you and the rest of the latter's fan club may be right in who Brian would prefer to play, don't you think it slightly odd that there has been no mention of Shorey being injured?

As far as I can see, we signed another left back because Mills was deemed not ready for the top flight, Harte was 34 and Shorey was free. Taking both players in their prime surely most observers beyond our east stand would see Harte as the better player by a distance.

[RoyallyFcuked]

As I've said before I remember going to Stoke when we were both in League 1 and the Britannia was less than a quarter full in the home end. They are the most overpraised fans in the country so it seems we aren't the only ones with PL "pLOLastic" hangers on. It was funny to hear them fall silent when reminded of the wastes of money known as Kitson and Sonko.

Haha yep, I remember hearing that and started joining in. I was in the South stand though, so too many plastics I suppose. The East Stand nearest the away fans was where that came from and that is the best place for singing, but even there it wasnt loud enough. Got to agree with the Stoke fan as well, we didnt get behind our team anywhere near as much as thought we would. The first season in Premier League (06/07) we were always in good voice where I was (East Stand towards South), but it was nowhere near that on Saturday. This only made me more certain about the Madejski's declining atmosphere and doesnt make me want to return any time soon. Il stick to supporting us away from home because nothing beats that.

[Victor Meldrew]

I know we like to play with width but it seems to me McDermott really wants Harte in the team and anything that makes his lack of pace harder to expose in a league full of pacy forwards is worth having, even if it means losing out in other areas.

Do you really think so,putting aside your long-held views on Shorey?
I think Shorey must have been injured for Harte to start as Shorey can do all that Harte can do and more IMHO.
I saw both play in the friendly at Bournemouth and based on that game alone so not substantive an argument I know but Shorey offered so much more to the attacking side of our game and was equally as bad (or good depending on your view) defensively.
Brian for all of his general excellence has his blind spots regarding certain players ,Church and HRK in particular,but he is aware that Cummings and Harte wouldn't be good enough for the Prem and that's why he swiftly bought both Gunter and Shorey.
That's my take on it FWIW.

Just the fact that Harte can kick a ball with both feet makes him better all round player than Shorey and whilst you and the rest of the latter's fan club may be right in who Brian would prefer to play, don't you think it slightly odd that there has been no mention of Shorey being injured?

As far as I can see, we signed another left back because Mills was deemed not ready for the top flight, Harte was 34 and Shorey was free. Taking both players in their prime surely most observers beyond our east stand would see Harte as the better player by a distance.

I know you don't go to many games these days but I do and from my observations( from the more knowledgable East Stand and at other grounds) Harte is one of the most left-footed players I have ever seen and (like Shorey) is abysmal with his right foot.
"Harte better player by a distance" ,now that is bordering on comical-Shorey an England international,Harte an Irish international along with Stephen Hunt.Both players are excellent takers of free-kicks but in my view Shorey's range and skill of passing puts him ahead.
Neither are that great at defending but Shorey offers more going forward so for me it would be a no-brainer but Irishman Brian does love his Irish players so you might well be right that Brian will play Harte until it becomes embarrassing.

[Woodcote Royal]

I don't need to attend many games to know how one footed Shorey is (but I've seen him play in hundreds) and using the fact that Harte is Irish as proof of Shorey's superiority is just pathetic.

The race is on for the first Shorey lover to come up with some solid evidence that their favourite love child was injured on Saturday and, yes, I guess a picture of an ingrowing toe nail on his LEFT foot would be acceptable

[glass half full]

Does an injury to his foot mean that he is too big for his boots?

[Victor Meldrew]

I don't need to attend many games to know how one footed Shorey is (but I've seen him play in hundreds) and using the fact that Harte is Irish as proof of Shorey's superiority is just pathetic.

The race is on for the first Shorey lover to come up with some solid evidence that their favourite love child was injured on Saturday and, yes, I guess a picture of an ingrowing toe nail on his LEFT foot would be acceptable

I think you rather than Shorey needs the treatment and you need to attend matches to see how dreadful Harte's right foot is-it is as bad as and arguably worse than Shorey's.
Get over it,he left us,we got a load of dosh and now he is back for free and I and many others are glad to see him back as his wand of a left foot will win us some points both with his great range of passing and his excellent free-kick taking.
My greater concern is that both are very weak defensively.

[Woodcote Royal]

You could always send Brian a copy of your delusional assessment of Shorey's ability and take the opportunity to ask him why he couldn't find room for such an amazing "wand" on his 7 man subs bench.

[pea]

As I've said before I remember going to Stoke when we were both in League 1 and the Britannia was less than a quarter full in the home end. They are the most overpraised fans in the country so it seems we aren't the only ones with PL "pLOLastic" hangers on. It was funny to hear them fall silent when reminded of the wastes of money known as Kitson and Sonko.

Haha yep, I remember hearing that and started joining in. I was in the South stand though, so too many plastics I suppose. The East Stand nearest the away fans was where that came from and that is the best place for singing, but even there it wasnt loud enough. Got to agree with the Stoke fan as well, we didnt get behind our team anywhere near as much as thought we would. The first season in Premier League (06/07) we were always in good voice where I was (East Stand towards South), but it was nowhere near that on Saturday. This only made me more certain about the Madejski's declining atmosphere and doesnt make me want to return any time soon. Il stick to supporting us away from home because nothing beats that.

lol at this guy calling other people plastics

[Victor Meldrew]

You could always send Brian a copy of your delusional assessment of Shorey's ability and take the opportunity to ask him why he couldn't find room for such an amazing "wand" on his 7 man subs bench.

He may just reply "injured".
I love the idea that my assessment was delusional-that makes Brian the same for signing him doesn't it?
So perhaps you might want to get in touch with our manager and tell him.

[Woodcote Royal]

I love the idea that my assessment was delusional-that makes Brian the same for signing him doesn't it?

No, it either makes your sense of logic equally delusional or, you are really getting desperate here.

Back on planet earth; Brian needed another left back and he got one who was free and came with several seasons of Prem experience.

Yes, I could think of many others I would rather he had chosen but from a business point of view, it was yet another very useful signing.

[Big Foot]

I don't need to attend many games to know how one footed Shorey is (but I've seen him play in hundreds) and using the fact that Harte is Irish as proof of Shorey's superiority is just pathetic.

The race is on for the first Shorey lover to come up with some solid evidence that their favourite love child was injured on Saturday and, yes, I guess a picture of an ingrowing toe nail on his LEFT foot would be acceptable

Shorey was out in Reading town centre on Saturday night FWIW

[Hoop Blah]

Back to Saturday's game, I thought were OK, nothing more and nothing less.

It was a tough opening game as Stoke are difficult for the best teams to play against yet, up until the final third we looked pretty comfortable. The back four snuffed them out well, with Gorkss outstanding for me, and Stoke were limited to rare chances. It's worth keeping in mind that Stoke really struggled to score away from home last season so I'm not getting too carried away.

I think they looked a bit more threatening than us though. Why? Mainly because we lacked any real composure or quality upfront for most of the game. Pogrebnyak really struggled to get any joy up against Huth and Shawcross and whenever Le Fondre found himself in space or with a decent half chance he looked like a player who was playing for Rotherham 12 months ago and fluffed his chances every time. Even allowing for Stoke's resilliance and agricultral defending, there needs to be a massive improvement in the final third if we're going to score enough goals to keep us up. We created all the best chances, but didn't really trouble the keeper and that's not good enough at this level.

Final comment saved for the outstanding McLeary. Irrespective of how tired Stoke might've been his cameo appearance was excellent and I hope we see a lot more of that play in the coming weeks and months. He looked like the best of Kebe but with the potential to be a lot more consistent, hard working and defensively sound.

[If you still hate Futcher]

From what I could see we did OK and can be reasonably satisfied - for me Guthrie was the stand out player, dropping off and demanding the ball all the time and was visibly annoyed when he didn't get it.

We were a little tentative going forward and always wanted 1 too many touches when there was a chance to get a shot off.

Even in the first half you could see that the Stoke defence were uncomfortable when we got the ball down and ran at them, no surprises there, and their left back (Willson?) was the more vulnerable of their full backs. Even in the first half he had to foul Jobi several times. Given this I couldn't understand why we didn't get the ball out to the right more often until Mcleary came on when, after his 1st run against them, that was all we were doing really apart from a couple of punts for Hunt to jump at. I didn't see us try to go down the left side at all when Jobi was over there.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Jesus, talk about over-analysis.

Scrambled clumsy goal – it happens. Otherwise defence were solid, though Stoke are not going to be their biggest test. In attack we weren’t prolific but unlike their attack, Stoke’s defence is as good as any top team and better sides will be more open than they were.

Not much to complain about, and the only thing we have learned is that McCleary warrants a starting place. For a team with several changes and playing it’s first game against top flight oppo, we did a pleasing job.

Now to stuff Chelsea in a game with zero pressure.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

...... and the only thing we have learned is that McCleary warrants a starting place. For a team with several changes and playing it’s first game against top flight oppo, we did a pleasing job..

Did we? We know he looks great coming on as sub and running at a tired defence on the hottest Saturday of the year. I very much want to see if he's as effective starting a game.

[Extended-Phenotype]

...... and the only thing we have learned is that McCleary warrants a starting place. For a team with several changes and playing it’s first game against top flight oppo, we did a pleasing job..

Did we? We know he looks great coming on as sub and running at a tired defence on the hottest Saturday of the year. I very much want to see if he's as effective starting a game.

And that's why he warrants a start.