Justice For The 96

[From Despair To Where?]

23 years for someone to come out and say to the families "You were right, the authorites were negligent, you were lied to and lied about and there was a deliberate attempt to cover up. We are very sorry". There has to be at the very least a new enquiry.

Just wish some of the more idiotic posters/trolls on here had shown a shred of humanity, actied with some dignity and kept their thoughts to themselves just for once.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

They had problems the year before. Yet they still gave the smaller stand to Liverpool fans, with fewer turnstiles.

Hardly the most important point in all of this, but I've no idea why people keep bringing this point up. It's not as if it was pay on the day.

It's not as if 10,000 Liverpool fans need more space than 10,000 Forest fans would.

I'd assumed from what was said that the capacities were different? Wasn't there a problem with the stated capacity being overcalculated? So if that stand was smaller, but given the same capacity, that would certainly have contributed to some of the crush.

The Leppings Lane stand certainly had much fewer turnstiles causing congestion and delaying the fans ability to actually get in.

The capacities were different (by a huge margin - the other end was about twice as big), but it's not as if they were letting the same number of fans into both. Both would have had their capacities per square metre worked out the same way.

I've never read anything suggesting the Leppings Lane End capacity was wrong, just that there was no way of making sure each of the pens was filled equally.

[Stuboo]

Pleased that today the truth about Hillborough has finally come out. Now comes justice.

I read the summary of the report. Some truly shocking stuff in there. The main issues of Hillsborough appear to be the unsafe design of the stadium to start with, the poor management by the authorities on the day and the subsequent smear campaign and cover up afterwards. Quite shocking that the police, the politicians and certain newspapers colluded to blame the Liverpool fans. This unholy trilogy still collude today to pull the wool over our eyes. Something needs to be done.

I even believed the lie the police and the newspapers told that Liverpool fans stormed the gates and caused the tragedy. The report shows that this is not true.
The police chief in charge that lied about the fans rushing the gates is on a full pention by the way.

My heart goes out to all the 96 that died, their families and all those affected by Hillsborough. I hope they feel some vindication now the truth is out and I hope that now those to blame for the disaster are brought to justice.

You really should all read the report.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/Section-1/summary/

It could have happened to any one of us.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

How come it didn't happen to any of those clubs then? All took thousands upon thousands of fans to terraced matches for decades, including games at Hillsborough.

Sheer good fortune? Or did they just have fewer people turning up l8 to rush the gates? Is it nothing more than sheer coincidence that it was Liverpool fans who were involved in the two worst crowd disasters in the 80s?

Are all questions people ask.

Some people still believe the earth is flat and the holocaust never happened.

They're all fcuking idiots too.

Yes they're exactly the same thing, aren't they?

What's your angle on this anyway? Every time the subject comes up you stride about the thread chucking abuse around and acting like the world authority on Hillsborough. It seems to hold a particularly close place to your heart.

I remember one of the very first times I came on this site (under a long-dead username) I posted a (genuine) comment that somebody I know who was there (an ex-g/fs dad) said that he thought the Liverpool fans had to take some portion of the blame. You went absolutely nuts at me, and it wasn't even my opinion. Was only my sixth ever post or something and I thought "pfuck this lot" and didn't come back for years.

Arch is another one - definitely some hidden emotion there, always goes ballistic on the topic.

Maybe they were at Hillsborough that day Maguire? I wasnt, but if i was it would tilt me off big time everytime this topic came up.

[Maguire]

Absolutely TLM. If they were then I can understand why they go batshit crazy at people.

[who are ya?]

It could have been Sharpys Mum

[Royal With Cheese]

What's your angle on this anyway? Every time the subject comes up you stride about the thread chucking abuse around and acting like the world authority on Hillsborough. It seems to hold a particularly close place to your heart.

I was there so I guess seeing people die in front of your eyes does make it a close place to my heart.

I'm not an authority on Hillsborough - I've never claimed to be. I prefer to leave that to the people who have written the report who completely exonerated Liverpool fans from any wrong doing.

I guess the "reasoned debate" hob nob goes through every year of so just gets on my tits.

There - well done to the trolls - they've won. I'm sure the wank socks are at the ready for that one.

[Maguire]

What's your angle on this anyway? Every time the subject comes up you stride about the thread chucking abuse around and acting like the world authority on Hillsborough. It seems to hold a particularly close place to your heart.

I was there

Let's leave it at that then.

I had no idea - perfectly understandable responses in the context of this.

*no wanksock*

[Royal With Cheese]

Fair enough.

[philM]

Thinking about the statements that were altered..

This looks to me like it was done centrally. Sections were simply scored out. If the police who wrote them were involved surely they would have just got them to re-write the statements.

The police weren't very popular around then, and the Government would have been worried about riots etc if the police were seen to be at fault in any way for Hillsborough, so the way to "defuse"" the situation was to shift the blame on to the fans.

Stinks of Thatcher to me. I wonder if we'll ever find out who used the pen, and who told them to.

Maybe it'll all be blamed on the (deceased) Chief Constable.

[Wizard]

Anyone seen the front page of the Sun today? I haven't, just interested.

[paultheroyal]

[Wizard]

Didn't expect them to acknowledge it (on the front page anyway). Fair play.

Thanks Paul.

[soggy biscuit]

Interesting interview with David Mellor on R5 this morning who was sports minister at the time. He said 'Thatcher didn't like football or football fans'

Was quite surprising as he just seemed to throw it in there without being asked about it. Maybe there is some significance in there, maybe not.

[Schards#2]

Thinking about the statements that were altered..

This looks to me like it was done centrally. Sections were simply scored out. If the police who wrote them were involved surely they would have just got them to re-write the statements.

The police weren't very popular around then, and the Government would have been worried about riots etc if the police were seen to be at fault in any way for Hillsborough, so the way to "defuse"" the situation was to shift the blame on to the fans.

Stinks of Thatcher to me. I wonder if we'll ever find out who used the pen, and who told them to.

Maybe it'll all be blamed on the (deceased) Chief Constable.

You're an idiot

[Terminal Boardom]

Thinking about the statements that were altered..

This looks to me like it was done centrally. Sections were simply scored out. If the police who wrote them were involved surely they would have just got them to re-write the statements.

The police weren't very popular around then, and the Government would have been worried about riots etc if the police were seen to be at fault in any way for Hillsborough, so the way to "defuse"" the situation was to shift the blame on to the fans.

Stinks of Thatcher to me. I wonder if we'll ever find out who used the pen, and who told them to.

Maybe it'll all be blamed on the (deceased) Chief Constable.

You're an idiot

Quite happy to go with the Thatcher conspiracy. She hated and effectively destroyed the Trade Union movement and the government was dead against football. remember that Hillsbrough was a few years after Heysel, Bradford and Birmingham as well as at a time when Thatcher was desperate to introduce membership card schemes throughout the game. Throw in the ban on away fans by Luton Town and the government's attitude has been clear for all to see. Hopefully, the time will coome when a line can be drawn under the whole Hillsbrough affair. Events of the last 24 hours or so is a start.

[Schards#2]

Thinking about the statements that were altered..

This looks to me like it was done centrally. Sections were simply scored out. If the police who wrote them were involved surely they would have just got them to re-write the statements.

The police weren't very popular around then, and the Government would have been worried about riots etc if the police were seen to be at fault in any way for Hillsborough, so the way to "defuse"" the situation was to shift the blame on to the fans.

Stinks of Thatcher to me. I wonder if we'll ever find out who used the pen, and who told them to.

Maybe it'll all be blamed on the (deceased) Chief Constable.

You're an idiot

Quite happy to go with the Thatcher conspiracy. She hated and effectively destroyed the Trade Union movement and the government was dead against football. remember that Hillsbrough was a few years after Heysel, Bradford and Birmingham as well as at a time when Thatcher was desperate to introduce membership card schemes throughout the game. Throw in the ban on away fans by Luton Town and the government's attitude has been clear for all to see. Hopefully, the time will coome when a line can be drawn under the whole Hillsbrough affair. Events of the last 24 hours or so is a start.

You're also an idiot

[cmonurz]

Jesus christ, there are some fcuking idiots in this world.

[Silver Fox]

I can't remember the exact wording from the news reports last night but they were saying that Thatch was told in cabinet that South Yorks OB were covering up and lying and this was pretty much standard for them. i'd guess a government that cared about the victims would have done something about this

but then I'm probably an idiot

[Schards#2]

I can't remember the exact wording from the news reports last night but they were saying that Thatch was told in cabinet that South Yorks OB were covering up and lying and this was pretty much standard for them. i'd guess a government that cared about the victims would have done something about this

but then I'm probably an idiot

Indeed you are. Worse than that, you're as bad as the likes of Kes and Ideal in ignoring the conclusions of the report because they didn't say what you wanted them to say.They wanted it to codemn Liverpool fans, you, and other Fatcha haters wanted it to skewer her, it did neither.

Thatcher was given the opinion that the police evidence was questionable and didn't pursue it further. She did, however, commission and accept the Taylor report which was hugely critical of the police.

I don't doubt that thatcher hated football and football fans and would, instinctively, believe police over football fans but that is a million miles away from the theory that she personally oversaw a cover up, a suggestion that was dismissed by the panel in the first few minutes of their press conference.

I think trying to politicise this issue is pretty low but as the issues come up, you have to wonder what on earth Jack Straw's enquiry did in 1997/98 which seems to have either failed to uncover or completely ignored many of the issues that arose yesterday.