The "Does it Even Itself Out?" Thread

[Matt de K]

Not sure if we've had one of these before or not, but seeing as we've had a couple of bad decisions against us, I thought it would be good to have a plus/minus points accumulator for the season, for bad decisions that have affected the outcome of the game.

We all hear - "Well, it evens itself out over the duration of the season"

Well so far:

Torres offside goal = -1
Ba's handball goal = -2

I know this is all "ifs" & "maybes" but never-the-less I'm looking forward to scrubbing these -3 points off real soon

[SpaceCruiser]

And the two penalties we were denied against Tottenham.

That's 5 points the referees have cost us so far this season.

[Libertine]

Not sure if we've had one of these before or not, but seeing as we've had a couple of bad decisions against us, I thought it would be good to have a plus/minus points accumulator for the season, for bad decisions that have affected the outcome of the game.

We all hear - "Well, it evens itself out over the duration of the season"

Well so far:

Torres offside goal = -1
Ba's handball goal = -2

I know this is all "ifs" & "maybes" but never-the-less I'm looking forward to scrubbing these -3 points off real soon

Not in the PL, and not for us. The close calls always go for the established teams and the refs have a bias against the newly promoted teams when it come to close calls. Those calls always go in favor of the established PL team.

Sadly I can see at least 1 or 2 more game changing decisions to go against us before the end of this season because of the officials pro-established team bias. It sucks ass, but we are just going to have to fight our way through it.

[Albert Spangler]

And the two penalties we were denied against Tottenham.

That's 5 points the referees have cost us so far this season.

If we'd taken our chances and defended better then we wouldn't be relying on refereeing decisions.

[old woman]

And the two penalties we were denied against Tottenham.

That's 5 points the referees have cost us so far this season.

If we'd taken our chances and defended better then we wouldn't be relying on refereeing decisions.

Whilst this is a valid point, you have to take into account the game overall- If the penalty for handball had been given and converted against Spurs , we would have taken a 1-0 lead and with the situation they were in, they may have been demoralised and fallen apart.

In the Chelsea game, had Torres been flagged offside, we may have drawn 2-2. Feds would not have gone upfield for the corner that's for sure.

Today we may have won 2-1 or even gone on to win by a bigger margin.

Cause and effect

[Ian Royal]

Anyone see whether Newcastle actually were offside when McCarthy brought their player down in the box? Because I thought that was a stonewall penalty until I saw the flag.

[RoyalBlue]

Anyone see whether Newcastle actually were offside when McCarthy brought their player down in the box? Because I thought that was a stonewall penalty until I saw the flag.

Given that no-one else was interfering with play(recognising that is not the right expression) it had to be the player McCarthy brought down (Ba) who was offside.

[Avon Royal]

Not sure if we've had one of these before or not, but seeing as we've had a couple of bad decisions against us, I thought it would be good to have a plus/minus points accumulator for the season, for bad decisions that have affected the outcome of the game.

We all hear - "Well, it evens itself out over the duration of the season"

Well so far:

Torres offside goal = -1
Ba's handball goal = -2

I know this is all "ifs" & "maybes" but never-the-less I'm looking forward to scrubbing these -3 points off real soon

To be fair, most observers thought we caught a break with the advantage-then-penalty decision against Stoke. That would add +1.

[Ian Royal]

Anyone see whether Newcastle actually were offside when McCarthy brought their player down in the box? Because I thought that was a stonewall penalty until I saw the flag.

Given that no-one else was interfering with play(recognising that is not the right expression) it had to be the player McCarthy brought down (Ba) who was offside.

Good decision, the player was just offside.

[Handsome Man]

Was it deliberate?

Newcastle were evry lucky to get the second goal, but was it definitely handball?

[bcubed]

simple answer

No it doesn't even itself out and really why should it?
What's so special about the length of a season that luck should even itself out over that time?

And anyway established teams and especially top five will keep getting decisions in their favour - that's just life

[windermere_royal]

Anyone see whether Newcastle actually were offside when McCarthy brought their player down in the box? Because I thought that was a stonewall penalty until I saw the flag.

i am overseas and watched it live on the box. clearly offside.

[Libertine]

Was it deliberate?

Newcastle were evry lucky to get the second goal, but was it definitely handball?

I had a pretty heated argument with a bunch of Toon fans on the comment thread for the article about the game at the Guardian about this exact thing. Intent, inschment. When a player is in his own box, extends his arm and a shot strikes either his hand or arm is a penalty not always given regardless of intent? To me the same standard should apply when in the opponent's box. No matter what the goal should be disallowed if a ball strikes his arm, if his arm is above his side/extended, and the ref deems there was intent the player should get a red card in addition to having the goal disallowed. The same standard should be applied to attacking players that is applied to defending players in both boxes...

[Jackson Corner]

Te so called elite panel of refs stay in the Prem. So become pals with the managers and players as they have them every week. And as such favour them. Mind you I can't remember us getting many decisions going are way last season?

[Handsome Man]

Was it deliberate?

Newcastle were evry lucky to get the second goal, but was it definitely handball?

I had a pretty heated argument with a bunch of Toon fans on the comment thread for the article about the game at the Guardian about this exact thing. Intent, inschment. When a player is in his own box, extends his arm and a shot strikes either his hand or arm is a penalty not always given regardless of intent? To me the same standard should apply when in the opponent's box. No matter what the goal should be disallowed if a ball strikes his arm, if his arm is above his side/extended, and the ref deems there was intent the player should get a red card in addition to having the goal disallowed. The same standard should be applied to attacking players that is applied to defending players in both boxes...

I thin that's the recommended interpretation of the rules for defenders - if your arm is up in the air and a shot strikes it, then you can give away a penalty.

For attackers, I don't think it's so clear cut. To me, he stuck his hand out and stroked it into the net with what looked like a clear deliberate action, but would a third official or TV referee really have made the same decision? It could have been accidental and a legitimate goal.

[SpaceCruiser]

Even itself out my arse, we are getting fukked over because we are "the small team" and everyone else is "the big team", hence decisions ALWAYS go their way.

This.

Roberto Martinez was having a whinge about Manure and I agreed with him. I never liked Martinez as a Wigan player, but as a manager, he has been spot on about certain referee decisions. The FA should not be charging him for being honest - big clubs DO get decisions in their favour.

[Super_horns]

Does that mean your a bigger club than us...

Thinking of Mr Atwell?

It does seem the top managers can simply ring up and moan about a lack of decisions - could you do that in other sports?

[Pepe the Horseman]

Does that mean your a bigger club than us...

Thinking of Mr Atwell?

It does seem the top managers can simply ring up and moan about a lack of decisions - could you do that in other sports?

That was a blatant goal though

[Matt de K]

We need to bring honesty back into the game. In every MOTD there is always some sort of dishonesty somewhere along the line.

Yesterday Ba celebrated by telling the Newcastle fans that he just scored with his right hand. Ok, so he admitted it to his traveling fans, and in the interview afterwards. Should he've admitted that to the ref, after Maradona'ing into the net? A Newcastle fan would say "no" probably, using the old "it'll even itself out over the season"

So when every point is now massive, in terms of £££'s, relegation & also Champions League & UEFA spots; is it time to enforce honesty? Could this be done?
Issue a fine and/or points deduction?? (I know the answer is no, btw, it's taken an eternity just to get the ball rolling with goal line technology)

Back to the OP - so is it currently -3 points?? I don't think you can start bringing pens into it, as we've got to score them as well, just officials getting decisions wrong, or completely missing them.

[RoyalBlue]

Was it deliberate?

Newcastle were evry lucky to get the second goal, but was it definitely handball?

I had a pretty heated argument with a bunch of Toon fans on the comment thread for the article about the game at the Guardian about this exact thing. Intent, inschment. When a player is in his own box, extends his arm and a shot strikes either his hand or arm is a penalty not always given regardless of intent? To me the same standard should apply when in the opponent's box. No matter what the goal should be disallowed if a ball strikes his arm, if his arm is above his side/extended, and the ref deems there was intent the player should get a red card in addition to having the goal disallowed. The same standard should be applied to attacking players that is applied to defending players in both boxes...

I thin that's the recommended interpretation of the rules for defenders - if your arm is up in the air and a shot strikes it, then you can give away a penalty.

For attackers, I don't think it's so clear cut. To me, he stuck his hand out and stroked it into the net with what looked like a clear deliberate action, but would a third official or TV referee really have made the same decision? It could have been accidental and a legitimate goal.

As I mentioned on another thread,'deliberate' no longer appears to come into it. How often do you see a player penalised when he gains possession after the ball deflects off his hand (absolutely no intent)? Answer - very frequently. There is no way that a team should be allowed to score a goal in that manner and 99.99% of the time they aren't allowed to.