Guthrie told to stay away...

[Royalclapper]

It's not exactly uncommon for manager/player bust-ups to occur when a player feels aggrieved at not getting enough game time. This situation does appear to be a bit silly though. You can understand Guthrie being p*ssed off when he is seemingly dropped for being too good a player for the teams ethic. A dip in form or some bad mistakes like the Peter Sellers clangers from federici would probably be a different kind of being annoyed as personal frustration at poor form is likely to count.

The hustle and bustle approach is probably a good option against the lower placed sides, but the more technically gifted teams will probably play it long for a period to counteract this and then step it up and pick you off when space becomes available. We also need someone who can make the most of the space we get in good areas, just can't see Tabb as this player, and you can see why McD signed Guthrie. They both need to find a solution imo, this just won't help the cause when we need it most.

[Snowball]

It's not a mountain out of a molehill when our centre midfield options are reduced to

Leigitwood, Tabb, Mcanuff, Gunarsson

That is nowhere near adequate in this division.

Our last three results (leaving out Liverpool as Guthrie played)
seem to suggest we CAN compete


2-2 Draw Karacan-Elwood with Newcastle, lost to a hand-ball goal
2-2 Draw Karacan-Tabb away to Swansea
3-3 Draw Tabb-Elwood with Fulham.

Also McCleary can play behind the striker in 4-5-1

[Simon's Church]

It's not a mountain out of a molehill when our centre midfield options are reduced to

Leigitwood, Tabb, Mcanuff, Gunarsson

That is nowhere near adequate in this division.

Our last three results (leaving out Liverpool as Guthrie played)
seem to suggest we CAN compete


2-2 Draw Karacan-Elwood with Newcastle, lost to a hand-ball goal
2-2 Draw Karacan-Tabb away to Swansea
3-3 Draw Tabb-Elwood with Fulham.

Also McCleary can play behind the striker in 4-5-1

But including two games with Karacan who's out for 6 weeks.

[Snowball]

Point is Tabb started twice and we got two good draws against decent teams

[ZacNaloen]

Tbf, Tabb played very well on Saturday

[Royal Lady]

I don't like to knock Tabb - he runs ragged and he never gives up, but surely you can all admit he's not a Premier League standard player? It's not his fault - and I expect his relishing having the chance to play at the moment, but we need someone better - whether that's Guthrie or not, we need someone stronger in midfield.

[Schards#2]

Point is Tabb started twice and we got two good draws against decent teams

We were outplayed in both games by sides that may well not finish in the top half. I like Tabb, he give 100% and has made the absolute maximum of his talents, which is admirable.

He is, however, not good enough at this level and no amount of stats will change that.

[Snowball]

Point is Tabb started twice and we got two good draws against decent teams

We were outplayed in both games by sides that may well not finish in the top half. I like Tabb, he give 100% and has made the absolute maximum of his talents, which is admirable.

He is, however, not good enough at this level and no amount of stats will change that.

Daft. If he starts ten and we W1 D9?

[Cypry]

It's not a mountain out of a molehill when our centre midfield options are reduced to

Leigitwood
Tabb
Mcanuff
Gunarsson

That is nowhere near adequate in this division.

The question was why Guthrie wasn't in the squad on Saturday....that's the molehill that Dellor was trying to have a dig around...

I'm sure there are some issues around Guthrie (his little outburst on Twitter more than hints at that) - Brian is probably, quite rightly so, trying to keep a lid on it, and probably sees it as unhelpful when "the press" keep picking at the wound...that could explain why he sounded pissed off couldn't it?
I suspect Brian is more than aware that we're lacking in midfield personnel with Jem out for a bit, and the last thing he wants is the press agitating any situation which surrounds Guthrie any further. I'm sure nobody more than Brian would like to have him featuring as a starting player...problem is, look at his performance against Liverpool - in a situation where we desperately need a win, would you be prepared to take a gamble on a player coming good, where recently he's been unable to produce the goods?

My problem here is how polarised peoples views are, and how many seem to want to knock Brian at every opportunity.....

That's a bit of a generalisation. I stated only yesterday that I love Brian and what he has done for the club, in the same way I loved Coppell - but we can't just ignore that everything is going wrong - It really does seem that McD is increasingly out of his depth - I don't know whether a remedy would be bringing in another coach to help him out or what, but we need to do something, as he seems to have lost his way.

Therein lies the problem - you're only seeing the negative...

Call me an RTG, but on the pitch, we're improving. This season was never going to be easy, I'm not quite sure what other peoples expectations were but I'll be ecstatic if, come July, we're going into pre-season looking at another PL season ahead of us....relegation wouldn't even be the disaster that some make it out to be...I'm sure AZ has gone on record saying as such (and, if I remember correctly, said that Brian would retain his backing, even if we were relegated)...

Yes, we've had a couple of issues in the personnel - Feds, and now Guthrie, but as someone said, these kind of issues crop up all the time in every club in the country. Nice to see Feds back in the squad on Saturday, and I'm 100% certain that he'll regain the shirt at some point this season. Whether Guthrie does is probably largely down to the player himself knuckling down and proving that he can offer something - if he's not prepared to do that, then I'd suggest we don't really want him here anyway....

From my point of view, we were well on top of the game for the first half against Fulham, and it was only our failure to react to the changes caused by the introduction of Ruiz, that let Fulham get a foothold back in the game (really don't get this view that somehow Fulham "outplayed" us - I must've been watching a different game to those who think so). IMO this is a great improvement,and if we can take the momentum from the last 10 minutes into the game against QPR, then I can sense our first win coming up.....

[RoyalBlue]

Point is Tabb started twice and we got two good draws against decent teams

We were outplayed in both games by sides that may well not finish in the top half. I like Tabb, he give 100% and has made the absolute maximum of his talents, which is admirable.

He is, however, not good enough at this level and no amount of stats will change that.

Daft. If he starts ten and we W1 D9?

That is just a stat which may or may not say something about Tabb's ability as a PL player. It could well be that the efforts and talents of the other players in the team carried him and got those results.

I could probably have had a run of games in our record breaking side and they would have still got some good results as they could have carried me! Doesn't make me a Championship level player though!

[ZacNaloen]

From my point of view, we were well on top of the game for the first half against Fulham, and it was only our failure to react to the changes caused by the introduction of Ruiz, that let Fulham get a foothold back in the game (really don't get this view that somehow Fulham "outplayed" us - I must've been watching a different game to those who think so). IMO this is a great improvement,and if we can take the momentum from the last 10 minutes into the game against QPR, then I can sense our first win coming up.....

Fulham outplayed us for the 5 minutes after Ruiz came on as we didn't get a grip on him at all, before that we were bang on top, and after that it was very even.

[melonhead]

Brilliant so the only player that can pass has now had a bust up. If I were Guthrie and the manager kept putting a second rate winger in CM and taking me off I would be pissed off!

Not only that he sees Tabb lining up in front of him. McDermott has to realise this is a results business not lets play a shit player because he's a nice guy.

think guthrie has to realise that while since when he is played he gives the bal away as much as anyone in the team, doesnt work as hard, and has shown precious little of his vaunted creativity, that he should probably stop moaning and blaming everyone else, and start looking at how he can improve his game, and that of the team

its a shame, because at the start of the season he looked a decent aquisition, but after the initial boost of a new team etc, he has seriously dipped, and just spends most of the games waving his arms and whingeing.
Mcdermott is nothing but fair and respectful to the players, and if there is a problem of this size its clearly down to the player not giving McDermott the respect he deserves

[bracksroyal10]

Sorry but once again we are shelling out good wages for a player who by the looks of things isn't going to feature much again unless the situation gets resolved. (Reminds me of a certain Fae under Coppell).

Its the Premier League, Guthrie is a very good player who could of probably done better than to join us if he wanted to I'm sure there were offers from bigger teams.

Not saying for one second that any player is bigger than the club/manager because this should never be the case.

My point is surely you can understand Guthrie's frustration at the situation, im pretty sure AZ and BMD would of given him guaranteed first team football or some form of guarantee otherwise there is no way he would of joined us.

If my memory serves me correctly Guthrie is naturally more of a sitting midfielder and BMD has been trying to put him in an attacking role so it would be a while before you start to get the best out of Guthrie in an attacking position. At least if we aren't going to play him much more we need to bring in a technically gifted midfielder on top of what we already have because quite frankly I can't see us being a team who can win ugly in this league like Stoke whos height and physical approach more than make up for the technical ability they may lack at times.

Its disappointing to say the least I really rate Guthrie as a player im sure everyone would agree if you were in Guthrie's shoes you would be expecting to play some part in the majority of our matches this season. In my eyes him and the Pog were our two key players at the start of the season.

Don't know whats been said behind the scenes but it would be a shame if Guthrie were to rot in the reserves he is obviously going to be very frustrated at the situation. He is undoubtedly our best centre mid based on ability.

If we want to stay in this division we may need to adapt our style of play as a team to be more competitive at this level. Maybe a sure sign that the majority of our team cannot consistently deliver the same performance levels needed each week. This is the transformation that we need to make from npc to PL. Not saying for one minute it happens overnight because it doesn't unless you're Man City which we aren't.

[melonhead]

Guthrie has done nothing so far to be able to demand he's in the first team.

Please tell me what 70% of our squad have done to be able to cement a place in the first team?

is the answer - got to a play off final, won the championship, and looked a better side as a whole, and won more points when guthrie isnt in the 11?

[Tails]

Why sign him in the first place, the club and manager new what they were getting when they signed him....a player that isn't 'direct' and can be volatile.

[melonhead]

My point though is that McDermott shouldn't have let it get to this point. Either he should have managed Guthrie's expectations when he first signed, adapted the system to accommodate his style, or signed a player more suited to how we're playing now. I think it's been a poor piece of man management and I worry about his ability to motivate those who aren't just honest championship triers.

i think we did try to accomodate guthire, and change our style to fit his, in the first few games.
the trouble is hes not good enough to build a side around, and not worth changing our style just to suit him.

[RoyalBlue]

My point though is that McDermott shouldn't have let it get to this point. Either he should have managed Guthrie's expectations when he first signed, adapted the system to accommodate his style, or signed a player more suited to how we're playing now. I think it's been a poor piece of man management and I worry about his ability to motivate those who aren't just honest championship triers.

i think we did try to accomodate guthire, and change our style to fit his, in the first few games.
the trouble is hes not good enough to build a side around, and not worth changing our style just to suit him.

So a wasted/wrong signing then.

Funny how so many people (I'm not saying you were one) were celebrating his signing but are now saying we are better off without him.

[melonhead]

And personally, I think it shows Guthrie cares about wanting to play - he could sit on his arse and just collect his over inflated pay packet - but he's not happy doing that and as I said on another thread, McD is cutting off his nose to spite his face at the moment - playing Tabb when he could be playing Guthrie is one of the strangest decisions McD has made imo.

not strange at all when you see the way the team looks with either player in the middle.
tabb played very well on saturday, and fit into the teams style: stoke and chelsea ganmes aside, guthrie hasnt played well, constantly gives the ball away, doesnt track back or work hard, constantly moans and whinges during th egame at the players, and after the game on twitter to the manager.

yes its god that he cares- you wouldnt expect anyone to be happy at being dropped. but brian isnt in the habit of being a dictator manager, and strict disciplinarian. if hes felt the need to banish guthrie from training, its because guthrie has stepped beyond the bounds of respectful conduct.

[melonhead]

Anyone who doesn't believe it, after hearing McD's interview after the game, is an idiot imo.

Quite clearly, there is a problem. Guthrie wasn't even on the bench. He has clearly been told to adapt his style of play to the way that McD wants him to play, as Guthrie himself tweeted a few weeks ago. If he's moaned about it to McD or anyone else, I don't blame him. It's the way he may have gone about it that may be questionable. If he's ranted and raved and sworn to McD, then McD needs to reel him in.

is that not what brian is doing?

[Snowball]

Possession isn't the issue, shots on target is

9-8 says we were well in the game