Guthrie told to stay away...

[melonhead]

It's mid-table championship quality football (at best) in the long term. .

i think our record over the last 7 years plying in that exact way says something slightly different

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Isn't is just typical of the internet to blow this up into a major crisis.

Guthrie was told he wasn't playing.
Guthrie stated his case for playing, and how he felt about being behind Jay Tabb in the midfield pecking order a little too forcefully.
Brian McD has sent his to sit on the "naughty step" for a few days until he's calmed down.
End of crisis.

He'll be back soon -in fact I'd not be surprised to see him start v Arsenal.

[Archie's penalty]

The Reading way is hustle and bustle, championship standard wing play, percentage set pieces and resorting to hoofball when nothing else is working.

Stoke haven't done too bad on it.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastl ... -32120444/

There is a quite good assessment of Guthrie and the team here:

http://www.tiktaka.com/reading/guthrie- ... -survival/

I really like the piece on Guthrie, great analysis.

[melonhead]

From my point of view, we were well on top of the game for the first half against Fulham, and it was only our failure to react to the changes caused by the introduction of Ruiz, that let Fulham get a foothold back in the game (really don't get this view that somehow Fulham "outplayed" us - I must've been watching a different game to those who think so). IMO this is a great improvement,and if we can take the momentum from the last 10 minutes into the game against QPR, then I can sense our first win coming up.....

Fulham outplayed us for the 5 minutes after Ruiz came on as we didn't get a grip on him at all, before that we were bang on top, and after that it was very even.

agreed

fulham made a change, mcdermott cant just change things straight away, since he had no idea how the new fulham setup/tactics would play out
once he had assessed it, he changed things and nullified teh change, just cant see what else he was supposed to do
make a change before fulham by somehow guessing what jol was going to do? making a chage at exactly the same time deciding what to do as soon as he saw ruiz warming up?

[melonhead]

My point is surely you can understand Guthrie's frustration at the situation,

yes. im sure brian does too
if it was just a case of sheer frustration brian wouldnt have reacted in this way. he always comes out and says so- "id be concerned if a player wasnt upset at being dropped" etc
but for it to go this far, it means there must have been a stepping over the line by guthrie in terms of respect

im pretty sure AZ and BMD would of given him guaranteed first team football or some form of guarantee otherwise there is no way he would of joined us.

stop making stuff up

[melonhead]

Why sign him in the first place, the club and manager new what they were getting when they signed him....a player that isn't 'direct' and can be volatile.

because hes a good player, and brian knows that we will need a creative player in the middle to win certain games this season, and to give us other tactical an formation options.
if hes been volatile, then brian is dealing with it, and im not sure what else you expect.

should brian just let him do what he wants, play as he wants, be disrespectful to the manager, moan in the media?
im sorry, but he just not "that" good to justify that sort of leniency.
its not like hes cantona is it.

th emanager is dealing with it, either guthrie accepts it, and works hard and works his way back in in a quiet and respectful manner, or he goes.

fair enough

[Hoop Blah]

I don't think McDermott made a change to nulify Fulham's introduction of Ruiz, he made a change because Tabb was blowing out of his arse.

As for Guthrie, it will be interesting to see how this pans out and where the truth in the story actually lies.

As I've said before, signing him to then play him in a different position and/or ask him to play differently to how he's made his name and is capable of seems really odd. He isn't a Sigurdsson number 10 type player. He's more of a more creative type Harper or Premier League Brian Howard from what I've seen of him before, that's why he was understudy to Cabeye at Newcastle. Putting him in our team to play behind the lone forward just didn't make a lot of sense.

All in all a bit of an odd one really and not looking like the clever piece of business it first looked and this is looking like a real test of McDermotts management now.

[West Stand Man]

I don't like to knock Tabb - he runs ragged and he never gives up, but surely you can all admit he's not a Premier League standard player? It's not his fault - and I expect his relishing having the chance to play at the moment, but we need someone better - whether that's Guthrie or not, we need someone stronger in midfield.

Go on then, humour me. What is the definition of a Pl standard player if it isn't one who can play well at PL level?

[melonhead]

It really does seem that McD is increasingly out of his depth

he seems to have lost his way.

we are in the top divison, trying to work out a way of competing and improving so that we stay up with the players weve got.and imo it looks like its slowly working and coming together.


i just dont see how you can say either of those two statements are true
seems like typical kneejerk panic and doom mongering attitude cos all of a sudden we arent winning every game

[Lacoste]

I don't like to knock Tabb - he runs ragged and he never gives up, but surely you can all admit he's not a Premier League standard player? It's not his fault - and I expect his relishing having the chance to play at the moment, but we need someone better - whether that's Guthrie or not, we need someone stronger in midfield.

Go on then, humour me. What is the definition of a Pl standard player if it isn't one who can play well at PL level?

Come on be honest, any manager who thinks that going into a prem season with Tabb, Leg, Gunnarson, Karacan and a Guthrie who doesn't suit our style (apparently) is sufficient deserves everything he gets.

[West Stand Man]

Go on then, humour me. What is the definition of a Pl standard player if it isn't one who can play well at PL level?

Come on be honest, any manager who thinks that going into a prem season with Tabb, Leg, Gunnarson, Karacan and a Guthrie who doesn't suit our style (apparently) is sufficient deserves everything he gets.

That still doesn't go anywhere near answering my question.

[melonhead]

My point though is that McDermott shouldn't have let it get to this point. Either he should have managed Guthrie's expectations when he first signed, adapted the system to accommodate his style, or signed a player more suited to how we're playing now. I think it's been a poor piece of man management and I worry about his ability to motivate those who aren't just honest championship triers.

i think we did try to accomodate guthire, and change our style to fit his, in the first few games.
the trouble is hes not good enough to build a side around, and not worth changing our style just to suit him.

So a wasted/wrong signing then.

Funny how so many people (I'm not saying you were one) were celebrating his signing but are now saying we are better off without him.

rubbish

i like him, think hes a decent player, and if his attitude is right, he can help us play in different ways,be creative with, and keep hold of the ball better, which we sorely need.
he was impressive in the pre season friendly, and against stoke and chelsea, since then hes done less than nothing, and doesnt deserve any special treatment, or a guaranteed start

& if hes been disruptive, and disrespectful to the manager,just cos hes been left out of three ganmes, then i have no choice but to begin thinking if he carrys on with that we'll be better off without him.

[facaldaqui]

It really does seem that McD is increasingly out of his depth - I don't know whether a remedy would be bringing in another coach to help him out or what, but we need to do something, as he seems to have lost his way.

If he was out of his depth and had lost his way we'd be being thrashed every week, not getting three draws in the last four matches plus beating QPR in the league cup. The margin is very fine, and it seems to me that we are very close to succeeeding. It maybe that we never do quite succeed, but if so it will be due to a slight lack of premier quality in the side. I back McDermott to inch his way to success at this level. I really enjoyed Saturday and thought the team did a lot of good things. Same against Newcastle, where Pardew said we gave them a going over (we'd've won that without Ba's handball).

[under the tin]

This thread is a carbon copy of previous discussions where those with favourite players use a situation like this to criticise a manager.

Matejovski/Howard anyone?
Brian is paid to make the decisions. The buck stops there. It is him who will be likeliest to get the tin tack, not a member of his playing staff.
It is irrelevant to talk about the potential qualities of any player. Talk is cheap.
If Guthrie wants to be an auto starter, then he needs to produce on the bloody pitch, not on twitter.

[melonhead]

The Reading way is hustle and bustle, championship standard wing play, percentage set pieces and resorting to hoofball when nothing else is working.

Stoke haven't done too bad on it.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastl ... -32120444/

There is a quite good assessment of Guthrie and the team here:

http://www.tiktaka.com/reading/guthrie- ... -survival/

I really like the piece on Guthrie, great analysis.

spot on

aree with all of that

[Schards#2]

And personally, I think it shows Guthrie cares about wanting to play - he could sit on his arse and just collect his over inflated pay packet - but he's not happy doing that and as I said on another thread, McD is cutting off his nose to spite his face at the moment - playing Tabb when he could be playing Guthrie is one of the strangest decisions McD has made imo.

not strange at all when you see the way the team looks with either player in the middle.
tabb played very well on saturday, and fit into the teams style: stoke and chelsea ganmes aside, guthrie hasnt played well, constantly gives the ball away, doesnt track back or work hard, constantly moans and whinges during th egame at the players, and after the game on twitter to the manager.

yes its god that he cares- you wouldnt expect anyone to be happy at being dropped. but brian isnt in the habit of being a dictator manager, and strict disciplinarian. if hes felt the need to banish guthrie from training, its because guthrie has stepped beyond the bounds of respectful conduct.

This actually isn't true is it.

[Snowball]

Back to Tabby

Three starts 2-2, 3-3 and a 3-2 cup win where he had a big part in one of the goals

only other appearance 18 minutes as a sub where we also won 3-2



I think he's under-rated and always has been. He's a great pro.

[melonhead]

I don't think McDermott made a change to nulify Fulham's introduction of Ruiz, he made a change because Tabb was blowing out of his arse.

As for Guthrie, it will be interesting to see how this pans out and where the truth in the story actually lies.

As I've said before, signing him to then play him in a different position and/or ask him to play differently to how he's made his name and is capable of seems really odd. He isn't a Sigurdsson number 10 type player. He's more of a more creative type Harper or Premier League Brian Howard from what I've seen of him before, that's why he was understudy to Cabeye at Newcastle. Putting him in our team to play behind the lone forward just didn't make a lot of sense.

.

imo hes the harper to karacans sidwell, and has the ability to be better than my favourite crab

[Geekins]

I'm still wanting Guthrie to play and be a part of this team but it does sound like he's causing some upheavel in the camp. Kinda makes sense with Hunt defending Tabb after the game on Saturday and mentioning what a team player he is. Guthrie needs to lose the chip on his shoulder and concentrate on playing football.

[Mr.T10]

McDermott has spoken out... http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 30639.html

Now fecking play him! Would love to see Karacan and Guthrie in the middle but might have to wait a few weeks until we see that paring.