Guthrie told to stay away...

[Hoop Blah]

...but he has never kept a regular first team place in the past.

Apart from his season on loan to Bolton of course, oh yeah, and the one at Newcastle when they went down. Plus of course the Championship season which I'm assuming you're discounting as you're only talking about Premier League first team places.

The problem he'll be having is that his instinct is to recieve a pass, make another one and move to be an option for a ball back. The other players in the team aren't looking to do that and so his having to play against his instinct so that he gets it and has to whack it down a channel for a forward to [not] chase.

Asking him to slot into a side that doesn't really pass the ball and to start passing just ignores the fact that you need two or three players to make a pass possible, he can't just suddenly start passing if the other around him aren't doing the same or capable of doing the same at this level.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

...but he has never kept a regular first team place in the past.

Apart from his season on loan to Bolton of course, oh yeah, and the one at Newcastle when they went down. Plus of course the Championship season which I'm assuming you're discounting as you're only talking about Premier League first team places.

The problem he'll be having is that his instinct is to recieve a pass, make another one and move to be an option for a ball back. The other players in the team aren't looking to do that and so his having to play against his instinct so that he gets it and has to whack it down a channel for a forward to [not] chase.

Asking him to slot into a side that doesn't really pass the ball and to start passing just ignores the fact that you need two or three players to make a pass possible, he can't just suddenly start passing if the other around him aren't doing the same or capable of doing the same at this level.

Plus ne's joined a team that plays at a much higher tempo than he's used to, and one that depends on every player closing down all the time, which is something he's never been called on to do before now. .

[RoyalBlue]

In what way rubbish? Could well be that the reason he's 'done less than nothing' is that McDermott was demanding he change his natural style of play. If that was the case then is McDermott playing at? As I said on another thread, it's like paying good money for a screw driver and then trying to use it as a hammer! Furthemore, this would point to a wasted/wrong signing.

As someone else pointed out, it looks pretty obvious the club gave Guthrie the big sell to attract him (interrupting his honeymoon?). If he has then been told to change the way he plays (was he told that was a requirement before being signed?) and has now been dropped, I can understand him being more than fed up.

I don't think this is going to turn out to be McDermott's finest hour in terms of handling signings/players. I also suspect it might be symptomatic of the increasing pressure that he probably feels under.

McDermott said this morning: "There's no bust-up. He wasn't selected to play for the game.

"So, I don't know where the reports are coming from. Danny was training yesterday."

Well Brian, if you want an answer to that, I suggest you have a look at getreading. Alternatively try asking Mr Fordham!

Really surprised the club's Head of Communications hasn't told you already - he must monitor the media.
RoyalBlue

its rubbish cos he is a good player, and may still fit into our style, and help us progress/be more creative/keep hold of the ball as he was brought in to do
its entirely possible he is the right player, with the right abilities, who just needs to adapt slightly, and adjust his attitude.
Vs stoke and chalsea he worked well, kept the ball, created, and looked a gr8 acquisition. a few games later hes lost it a bit,and gone all sulky.
im just saying theres plenty of time for him to get back to how he started, AND try and do some of the tracking back and covering.hustling we also need him to do.

i think brian knows its fordham, what he is saying is he has no idea why or how fordham(the worst reporter witha track record of making stuff up and being chronically wrong, ) has come up with this nonsense

Given the way 'The Hound' was banned for speaking the truth (as he and others saw it) McDermott should be sorting Fordham (or have someone else do it) if that is the case. The last thing the club needs at present is works of fiction. However, I suspect Fordham's story may not be entirely without foundation. Maybe Guthrie hasn't been told to stay away from the training ground but may have been sent to train with the youngsters or on his own for example.

[bigmike]

Fordham creates yet another shitstorm with his shocking Journalism..

why do people listen to this twerp?

[facaldaqui]

Given the way 'The Hound' was banned for speaking the truth (as he and others saw it) McDermott should be sorting Fordham (or have someone else do it) if that is the case. The last thing the club needs at present is works of fiction. However, I suspect Fordham's story may not be entirely without foundation. Maybe Guthrie hasn't been told to stay away from the training ground but may have been sent to train with the youngsters or on his own for example.

In this morning's report:

Asked if Guthrie, who joined Reading from Newcastle this summer, had been upset by his axing, McDermott said: "Listen, if players are not in the side at this football club, they support the players that are in the side - that's what's got to happen.

"You get paid to play when you're selected.

"And when you're not selected, support the players that are playing.

"That's what we've had over a long, long period of time.

"That's the culture of this football club."

I wonder if the clue is in this extract from the interview. Considering how Brian answered that question, I wonder if the issue may be how Guthrie supports the rest of ther team when he's out. If he's sulking, not mixing in, or whatever, perhaps that's the clash. It sounds to me as if the philosphy Brian expounds to the reporter may be the point he has insisted on to Guthrie. If Guthrie is an egotist, Brian will have a job on to get him onside with that philosophy.

[RoyalBlue]

The question was why Guthrie wasn't in the squad on Saturday....that's the molehill that Dellor was trying to have a dig around...

I'm sure there are some issues around Guthrie (his little outburst on Twitter more than hints at that) - Brian is probably, quite rightly so, trying to keep a lid on it, and probably sees it as unhelpful when "the press" keep picking at the wound...that could explain why he sounded pissed off couldn't it?
I suspect Brian is more than aware that we're lacking in midfield personnel with Jem out for a bit, and the last thing he wants is the press agitating any situation which surrounds Guthrie any further. I'm sure nobody more than Brian would like to have him featuring as a starting player...problem is, look at his performance against Liverpool - in a situation where we desperately need a win, would you be prepared to take a gamble on a player coming good, where recently he's been unable to produce the goods?

My problem here is how polarised peoples views are, and how many seem to want to knock Brian at every opportunity.....

That's a bit of a generalisation. I stated only yesterday that I love Brian and what he has done for the club, in the same way I loved Coppell - but we can't just ignore that everything is going wrong - It really does seem that McD is increasingly out of his depth - I don't know whether a remedy would be bringing in another coach to help him out or what, but we need to do something, as he seems to have lost his way.

Therein lies the problem - you're only seeing the negative...

Call me an RTG, but on the pitch, we're improving. This season was never going to be easy, I'm not quite sure what other peoples expectations were but I'll be ecstatic if, come July, we're going into pre-season looking at another PL season ahead of us....relegation wouldn't even be the disaster that some make it out to be...I'm sure AZ has gone on record saying as such (and, if I remember correctly, said that Brian would retain his backing, even if we were relegated)...

Yes, we've had a couple of issues in the personnel - Feds, and now Guthrie, but as someone said, these kind of issues crop up all the time in every club in the country. Nice to see Feds back in the squad on Saturday, and I'm 100% certain that he'll regain the shirt at some point this season. Whether Guthrie does is probably largely down to the player himself knuckling down and proving that he can offer something - if he's not prepared to do that, then I'd suggest we don't really want him here anyway....

From my point of view, we were well on top of the game for the first half against Fulham, and it was only our failure to react to the changes caused by the introduction of Ruiz, that let Fulham get a foothold back in the game (really don't get this view that somehow Fulham "outplayed" us - I must've been watching a different game to those who think so).

Disagree with that last bit. We were pretty good in the first half but let Fulham back into the game from the moment the team returned from their half-time team looking and playing like they were half asleep. It just took Ruiz to exploit the fact that Fulham were controlling the game in the second half. It could be seen coming a long way off because, the moment our players backed out of Fulham's faces and stopped closing them down the moment they got possession, Fulham started to string together quick, short passing moves that were cutting through the centre of our team like a hot knife through butter.

[melonhead]

...but he has never kept a regular first team place in the past.

Apart from his season on loan to Bolton of course, oh yeah, and the one at Newcastle when they went down. Plus of course the Championship season which I'm assuming you're discounting as you're only talking about Premier League first team places.

The problem he'll be having is that his instinct is to recieve a pass, make another one and move to be an option for a ball back. The other players in the team aren't looking to do that and so his having to play against his instinct so that he gets it and has to whack it down a channel for a forward to [not] chase.

Asking him to slot into a side that doesn't really pass the ball and to start passing just ignores the fact that you need two or three players to make a pass possible, he can't just suddenly start passing if the other around him aren't doing the same or capable of doing the same at this level.

think we have "tried" to pass it more this season
and the last two home games have been much better in that area until we concede
before that point ive seen us passing alot more,& playing less hopeful balls

the problem comes, because we havent had a win yet, and are low on confidence, when we concede a goal after going in front, then our heads go down, and revert to panicking, and hoofing it when put under the slightest bit of pressure.

i do agree though, tha his mindset is just different to those around him, and where his first intinct is to pass and move, the others can be to look up and play the percentages by lumping it down the channels
compromising betwene the two: getting him to be a bit more direct, and track back when he loses it and also getting the others to be more composed, and look for the short easy pass more often
if we do that, he'll be a gr8 player for us, and we will get more success

[ZacNaloen]

Would be interested to know what percentage of Tabbs passes were long vs short yesterday.

[Hoop Blah]

We might be trying to pass it more but we just don't have the players really capable or comfortable enough doing it to make it work.

Rodgers showed that trying to adjust the way a team plays with players put together to do something else isn't easy. I think Guthrie is a bit of a victim of us trying to do a little bit of that but only doing it half heartedly.

[E. Andrew]

IF Brian is eventually sacked, I'm glad I won't be forced to see that little cnut's face. Like his play, but he's always seemed like an arse.

[RobRoyal]

Fordham creates yet another shitstorm with his shocking Journalism..

why do people listen to this twerp?

[Ian Royal]

Can't be arsed to read all this but I'm pissed off big time.

I'm pissed of with Guthrie for causing problems when we need unity and our best players to perform. And I'm pissed off with Brian for winding up one of our best players by buying him and then asking him to play a shit style of football that doesn't suit him in the slightest.

Guthrie should shut his mouth and do things the right way, but right now having watched 6 of our 8 games this season I get the feeling he knows more about how to survive in the Premier League than McDermott does. McDermott's got a real problem successfully building a team over the summer that's ready to perform, his brand of football is hopeful percentage play and he can't rely on falling into a winning formula with one of the better squads in the division like he has done previously. Because we don't have one of the best squads and you can't go on mindblowing runs of form in the PL followng a bit of luck and confidence. The gap between teams is far too large.

He's done a great job, probably overachieving each season he's been here so far and there's still time to don fine this season. But he's on a steep learning curve and I'm worried he may not be ready.

[Ian Royal]

We might be trying to pass it more but we just don't have the players really capable or comfortable enough doing it to make it work.

Rodgers showed that trying to adjust the way a team plays with players put together to do something else isn't easy. I think Guthrie is a bit of a victim of us trying to do a little bit of that but only doing it half heartedly.

I disagree with this, we're limited in the number of players we have who can move and pass a ball well, but I think with Shorey, McAnuff, Guthrie, Roberts, ALF and maybe Pog, Ledge and Kebe we have the beginnings of a side that can do it.

[RedRum]

Would be interested to know what percentage of Tabbs passes were long vs short yesterday.

Only 24 passes tbh, but still 88% completion. Basically, not many long balls.

[RoyalBlue]

Can't be arsed to read all this but I'm pissed off big time.

I'm pissed of with Guthrie for causing problems when we need unity and our best players to perform. And I'm pissed off with Brian for winding up one of our best players by buying him and then asking him to play a shit style of football that doesn't suit him in the slightest.

Guthrie should shut his mouth and do things the right way, but right now having watched 6 of our 8 games this season I get the feeling he knows more about how to survive in the Premier League than McDermott does. McDermott's got a real problem successfully building a team over the summer that's ready to perform, his brand of football is hopeful percentage play and he can't rely on falling into a winning formula with one of the better squads in the division, because we don't have one of the best squads and you can't go on mindblowing runs of form in the PL followng a bit of luck and confidence. The gap between teams is far too large.

He's done a great job, probably overachieving each season he's been here so far and there's still time to don fine this season. But he's on a steep learning curve and I'm worried he may not be ready.

Blimey, I'm in agreement with Ian again! I'm really starting to worry that someone, possibly my alter ego, has hacked into his account and is posting without his knowledge!

[Ian Royal]

Would be interested to know what percentage of Tabbs passes were long vs short yesterday.

Only 24 passes tbh, but still 88% completion. Basically, not many long balls.

I'd be interested to also see Ledge, Gorkss & McAnuff.

24 passes suggests to me what we all already know. We just bypass midfield too much.

[Ian Royal]

Can't be arsed to read all this but I'm pissed off big time.

I'm pissed of with Guthrie for causing problems when we need unity and our best players to perform. And I'm pissed off with Brian for winding up one of our best players by buying him and then asking him to play a shit style of football that doesn't suit him in the slightest.

Guthrie should shut his mouth and do things the right way, but right now having watched 6 of our 8 games this season I get the feeling he knows more about how to survive in the Premier League than McDermott does. McDermott's got a real problem successfully building a team over the summer that's ready to perform, his brand of football is hopeful percentage play and he can't rely on falling into a winning formula with one of the better squads in the division, because we don't have one of the best squads and you can't go on mindblowing runs of form in the PL followng a bit of luck and confidence. The gap between teams is far too large.

He's done a great job, probably overachieving each season he's been here so far and there's still time to don fine this season. But he's on a steep learning curve and I'm worried he may not be ready.

Blimey, I'm in agreement with Ian again! I'm really starting to worry that someone, possibly my alter ego, has hacked into his account and is posting without his knowledge!

I've joined the darkside.

Where's the money gone. Madejski out.

[RedRum]

I'd be interested to also see Ledge, Gorkss & McAnuff.

24 passes suggests to me what we all already know. We just bypass midfield too much.

Can't be bothered to post all the pictures up, but Ledge had 38/51 passes, Gorkss 11/24 (nearly every pass into the opposition half failed ). McAnuff had 14/21 passes.

Also as a side-note as this is about Guthrie - he had 37/48 successful passes against Stoke, 29/35 against Chelsea, 23/33 against Spurs, 42/47 against West Brom, 27/34 against Liverpool. Also, the majority of theses are short/medium balls and varied around the pitch.

[Ian Royal]

I'd be interested to also see Ledge, Gorkss & McAnuff.

24 passes suggests to me what we all already know. We just bypass midfield too much.

Can't be bothered to post all the pictures up, but Ledge had 38/51 passes, Gorkss 11/24 (nearly every pass into the opposition half failed ). McAnuff had 14/21 passes.

I wish I was surprised by Kaspars "hoof" Gorkss.

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

Just out of interest - coul someone with access to that Opta stat jobbie let us know what Berbatovs pass completion rate was? I reckon it was double the nearest one of ours...?