Back from the Arsenal game/TV

[melonhead]

I really don't think they did. It was just a freak 45 minutes.

It's also incredibly disingenuous to praise tactics that give us the lead, but say they are blameless when we lose it.

th etactics were- get at them, pass it about, keep possession, play it to the wings, get lots of balls into the box, get your shots in early, if we get ahead, make sure we shut the game down when needed.etc

the tactics were not- let them waltz through the middle of the park, pass the ball to their attackers in dangerous areas, totally lose your shape at the back when under pressure.

and thats what lost us the game

I think when Hunt went off it benefited them too - he won every header and his closing down was superb, not giving the Arsenal back 4 any time on the ball. Pog came on and kept heading the ball towards our own goal

just think nhunt had run himself into the ground by that point
agreed- was biggest positive for me. looks better and better every game, won almost everything in the air, against players twice his size.
has to be roberts and hunt again on sunday

[cmonurz]

I know most football fans are the biggest load of pessimists and suffer from huge knee jerk reactions - but most on here really are pathetic in my opinion.

That’s pretty weak considering much of the reaction on here is as a result of our generally shambolic season thus far, and not simply because we lost last night.

[melonhead]

th etactics were- get at them, pass it about, keep possession, play it to the wings, get lots of balls into the box, get your shots in early, if we get ahead, make sure we shut the game down when needed.etc

That's my point - we didn't really do any of that, except approach the game with a bit of energy and get plenty of balls into the middle, it just all came together for the first half. We certainly didn't play possession football, Arsenal were just as slack with the ball as us in the first half.

we did all of that, we played really well, dont let the appalling 2nd half blind you to that.


and even if you disagree- theres no way that brians tactics involved any of the negative stuff that we did 2nd half.

[Vision]

shit tactics didnt lose us that game, the tactics got us 4-0 up.

I really don't think they did. It was just a freak 45 minutes.

It's also incredibly disingenuous to praise tactics that give us the lead, but say they are blameless when we lose it.

th etactics were- get at them, pass it about, keep possession, play it to the wings, get lots of balls into the box, get your shots in early, if we get ahead, make sure we shut the game down when needed.etc

the tactics were not- let them waltz through the middle of the park, pass the ball to their attackers in dangerous areas, totally lose your shape at the back when under pressure.

and thats what lost us the game

Well the inabilty by the manager to see it or his reluctance to do something about that is the issue. Gorkks made 2 really basic errors which a manager can't really do much about but Tabb and Leigertwood were crying out for help in the middle of the park (especially when they brought on the German kid's fresh legs) but McD did nothing to address it.

Does that mean he should get sacked and we will be relegated if he isn't? Of course not but it's daft to pretend he couldn't have done more to try and stop what happened last night

[melonhead]

Posted this to the "Tactics" thread below but that doesn't seem to be a starter, so am reposting here:

The way I see it is that our direct, straight attacking style is good for scoring, but we have no viable mechanism for controlling a game when we're leading. We seek to do what we did last year, absorb pressure and counter-act but that doesn't work when teams have vastly better forwards. We're always allowing teams a route back into games.

This seems to be coupled with our lack of ability against pace. Of course, last night's opposition will be one of the quickest we face, but I've got to wonder about Brian's tactics against such strike forces. He was actively pushing up the defence and trying to play with a high-line last night. This just seemed allow their midfield to play weighted through balls into the acres of space behind our defence and watch as Walcott and Arshavin run onto them.

We also seem to have problems with players who sit in the hole between midfield and our defence, like Berbatov last week. We're not sure whether our midfield should drop back (and get awfully squashed and compressed) or a CB should step up (leaving more space to play balls behind).

I'm sure I'll be accused of hyperbole and knee-jerking by most nobbers (Dirkers et al.) because I levying criticism. Honestly, not my intention and the above are things that have been apparent in recent games not just last night. There are problems that need sorting, if there weren't, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

all good, measured, points

[andrew1957]

I know most football fans are the biggest load of pessimists and suffer from huge knee jerk reactions - but most on here really are pathetic in my opinion.

That’s pretty weak considering much of the reaction on here is as a result of our generally shambolic season thus far, and not simply because we lost last night.

So far we have not played one side outside the top 13. Only Spurs have completely outplayed us and we could have at least drawn every other game we have played. We were robbed by the refereeing decisions against Chelsea and Newcastle.

Even last night the guys showed tremendous spirit and but for another dodgy referee we would have won.

I still think that IF Brain is given time we will finish above the drop zone.

[melonhead]

I really don't think they did. It was just a freak 45 minutes.

It's also incredibly disingenuous to praise tactics that give us the lead, but say they are blameless when we lose it.

th etactics were- get at them, pass it about, keep possession, play it to the wings, get lots of balls into the box, get your shots in early, if we get ahead, make sure we shut the game down when needed.etc

the tactics were not- let them waltz through the middle of the park, pass the ball to their attackers in dangerous areas, totally lose your shape at the back when under pressure.

and thats what lost us the game

Well the inabilty by the manager to see it or his reluctance to do something about that is the issue. Gorkks made 2 really basic errors which a manager can't really do much about but Tabb and Leigertwood were crying out for help in the middle of the park (especially when they brought on the German kid's fresh legs) but McD did nothing to address it.

Does that mean he should get sacked and we will be relegated if he isn't? Of course not but it's daft to pretend he couldn't have done more to try and stop what happened last night

already criticised brian for: - not having a central midfielder on the bench at all to bring in when ledge / tabb tired visibly after all that chasing
and not playing pearce from the start, and not bringing him on when he saw gorkss being an idiot
got no problem with that

[Extended-Phenotype]

Sick of his woeful subs, stubborn grudges with players, bias towards his mates and shit tactics.

Garbage.

lol- the woeful subs that have scored 3 goals in two games?
no way am i having that the way he has dealt with a player with an attitude problem is wrong in any way.
what bias towards his mates? church is his mate- hasnt played all season, fed was his mate-dropped for being dodgy, cummings was his mate, but gunter stepped straight into the team when he arrived, etc etc

shit tactics didnt lose us that game, the tactics got us 4-0 up. im pretty sure when he set out his tactical stall at the start of the game and 2nd half it didnt in any way involve letting players walk through our midfield and into the box, or gifting them possession with shit clearing headers etc. it was shit defending, and an increasingly porous midfield that lost the game.
the only issue with brian imo was not having guthrie on the bench(but if theres a problem, its totally understanable), and not starting with pearce


the players we brought in were all top championship players, of a kind that would fit our style(guthrie aside, and that was with a view to varying out tactics when needed) in the same way that swansea/norwich strengthened last year.
was our biggest summer spend ever, bringing in more quality players than ive ever seen before.
the problem is we came up a year too early, and the core of the squad arent quite good enough. but you cant just bring in 12 new players and start again(like QPR have) thats daft. imo

Nice spin, but his woeful subs have thrown away far more points than they have gained. His petty squabbling with a player has left us short of options, costing us more points. He couldn’t wait to let that bald fat BBQ chef back between the sticks despite showing himself to be an utter nightmare. He refused to spend what we obviously needed to in favour of keeping his shit friends in the side. The players he did buy he can’t even use, it’s like giving Gary Barlow a Mothercare catalogue. He has the tactical variety and flexibility of a team controlled by the computer in the 1980’s Spectrum game Kick Off. I’m bored of it.

[melonhead]

cant let players dictate when they are played, cant play players with an attitude problem, cant play players who have visible tantrums in the media.
full stop.
for me at least

thats not brians fault, thats guthries.

if guthrie had played brilliantly in the games hes played, and had been dropped for no reason, id criticise brian for it.
but no player can demand a game every week, let alone one who has let himself and th eteam down with the quality of his displays
imi

[TBM]

cant let players dictate when they are played, cant play players with an attitude problem, cant play players who have visible tantrums in the media.
full stop.
for me at least

thats not brians fault, thats guthries.

if guthrie had played brilliantly in the games hes played, and had been dropped for no reason, id criticise brian for it.
but no player can demand a game every week, let alone one who has let himself and th eteam down with the quality of his displays
imi

tbh i think Guthrie should have been on the bench last night - he is the kind of person we needed to come on and hold on to the ball

[melonhead]

cant let players dictate when they are played, cant play players with an attitude problem, cant play players who have visible tantrums in the media.
full stop.
for me at least

thats not brians fault, thats guthries.

if guthrie had played brilliantly in the games hes played, and had been dropped for no reason, id criticise brian for it.
but no player can demand a game every week, let alone one who has let himself and th eteam down with the quality of his displays
imi

tbh i think Guthrie should have been on the bench last night - he is the kind of person we needed to come on and hold on to the ball

agree totally,already said thats one of th ethings brian got wrong, i just dont think you can do that if hes causing problems with his attitude/tantrums

[Elm Park Pasty]

For me, the most depressing, and illustrative point about how Reading are playing at the moment, is the number of us (myself included) who didn't think four nil was enough of a lead. Yes, we all sat in numbed disbelief, but there doesn't seem to have been many posts from people saying they thought it was game over. It's as if the majority of us knew what was coming next

[mr_number]

For me, the most depressing, and illustrative point about how Reading are playing at the moment, is the number of us (myself included) who didn't think four nil was enough of a lead. Yes, we all sat in numbed disbelief, but there doesn't seem to have been many posts from people saying they thought it was game over. It's as if the majority of us knew what was coming next

I was considering that, but I think that's as much due to a fairly entrenched pessimism amongst us Reading fans, more than being specifically related to how we're playing right now

[parky]

For me, the most depressing, and illustrative point about how Reading are playing at the moment, is the number of us (myself included) who didn't think four nil was enough of a lead. Yes, we all sat in numbed disbelief, but there doesn't seem to have been many posts from people saying they thought it was game over. It's as if the majority of us knew what was coming next

This is exactly how I felt, I have no confidence in us seeing out a game or even something that would be even scarier, not conceding We haven't kept a clean sheet since the game where we were promoted.

[MouldyRoyal]

Posted this to the "Tactics" thread below but that doesn't seem to be a starter, so am reposting here:

The way I see it is that our direct, straight attacking style is good for scoring, but we have no viable mechanism for controlling a game when we're leading. We seek to do what we did last year, absorb pressure and counter-act but that doesn't work when teams have vastly better forwards. We're always allowing teams a route back into games.

This seems to be coupled with our lack of ability against pace. Of course, last night's opposition will be one of the quickest we face, but I've got to wonder about Brian's tactics against such strike forces. He was actively pushing up the defence and trying to play with a high-line last night. This just seemed allow their midfield to play weighted through balls into the acres of space behind our defence and watch as Walcott and Arshavin run onto them.

We also seem to have problems with players who sit in the hole between midfield and our defence, like Berbatov last week. We're not sure whether our midfield should drop back (and get awfully squashed and compressed) or a CB should step up (leaving more space to play balls behind).

I'm sure I'll be accused of hyperbole and knee-jerking by most nobbers (Dirkers et al.) because I levying criticism. Honestly, not my intention and the above are things that have been apparent in recent games not just last night. There are problems that need sorting, if there weren't, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

all good, measured, points

Cheers, that's what I was aiming for.

[Royalclapper]

Playing Tabb is like having a Greggs outlet in the middle of Fortnum and Mason.

[melonhead]

i love greggs

[cmonurz]

i love greggs

Yes but you'd go to Woodley Centre for a pie, not Fortnum and Mason.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Playing Tabb is like having a Greggs outlet in the middle of Fortnum and Mason.

Playing Jay Tabb is a bit like buying a hamper from Fortnum and Masson, falling out with the hamper because it passes the ball too much for your shit hoof-it tactics and eating a Greggs cheese and onion pasty which lets the opposition stroll through it like it was Patrick Swayze in f/cking Ghost.

[Norfolk Royal]

For me, the most depressing, and illustrative point about how Reading are playing at the moment, is the number of us (myself included) who didn't think four nil was enough of a lead. Yes, we all sat in numbed disbelief, but there doesn't seem to have been many posts from people saying they thought it was game over. It's as if the majority of us knew what was coming next

I'd go along with that. I was having a txt exchange with an Arsenal m8 during the game and when we want four-nil up he texted me to say he was giving up on the game and we could have the cup.

When it went to 4-1 I immediately texted him with 'It's not over yet.'

He started watching again but had to turn the telly off at 4-2 because he was staying in a hotel room with wife and two very young kids and his missus wanted them to go to sleep.

I kept the txt upd8s going to him as it developed. He was somewhat amazed this morning.