Proud to be a Reading fan tonight

[Hoop Blah]

We played better than we have, but lets not forget that we were playing an Arsenal side with 2 or 3 first teamers (who can't actually get a game I might add) in it and the rest a bunch of kids with very limited first team experience. They were awful in that first half and played their own large part in our 4-0 lead (that's to take nothing away from some good attacking play though)..

The "B team" line is ridiculous. That Arsenal side cost £55 million, yet the implication is that we got slaughtered by a bunch of nobodies with no future in the game.

We also lost by two goals, not seven. Had the whistle gone 30 seconds earlier, who'd be talking about us getting thrashed 3-0 by a B team in the last 46 minutes?

I know most of the team board seem to have the samaritans on speed-dial, and only concede the glass might be half full because somebody might have pissed in it, but a 4-4 score at 90 minutes, even if one team did score all the last four, doesn't actually mean the team that equalised was far better.

£55m? If you say so, but that was spent on what, 4 players? How many of those 4 get a start in a league game this season?

The rest of the side were kids and inexperienced pros who rarely play. Some decent players and prospects for the future but that was very much a B team.

[MouldyRoyal]

not read the thread just seen the title.

I honestly think there has to be some kind of retardation in associating anything to do with last nights performance with the word 'proud'.

I am quite proud that my team has now taken part in the highest ever aggregate scoring PL game (7-4 Pompey) and now the highest aggregate scoring ever League Cup game (5-7). At least we are not boring.

No, we're shit at defending.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

£55m? If you say so, but that was spent on what, 4 players? How many of those 4 get a start in a league game this season?

The rest of the side were kids and inexperienced pros who rarely play. Some decent players and prospects for the future but that was very much a B team.

It was a B team. It's just a B team full of talent far better than most premier league sides can hope to ever field, assembled at a cost most could not afford.

You make it sound like being 4-0 was the least we should have expected, and them beating us by any scoreline would have been some kind of cup shock on par with losing at home to Northampton.

[Hoop Blah]

Don't buy that I'm afraid. Yes many Premier League teams would struggle to have attracted Arshavin when he signed for Arsenal, but he's been poor for the last 18 months or so and so his fee when he signed is pretty irrelevant. Similar with Chamakh.

The rest, Walcott apart, would struggle to get in most Premier League teams at the moment and have very few league appearances between them. As their record shows though, Arsenal are well capable of fielding teams to progress in this cup (most teams play weakened teams which helps) but that doesn't take away from the fact we were 4-0 up and totally capitulated.

[leicsRoyal]

For the first 44 minutes Arsenal played like the team they were, a team of youngsters, those recovering from injury and those that can't get into the first team.
They put out exactly the same eleven for the start of the second half. Yes their substitutions, when made, were far more effective. Mainly due to the fact that we looked dead on our feet and we were tactically naive with our replacements.

I would love to know what Brian said at half time as we looked like a team completely lacking confidence in the second half and we were 4-1 up.

[SCIAG]

I think you're being harsh on many of the Arsenal players there, Hoop.

Koscielny played 43 matches last season and has already played 7 this season. Djourou played 29 last season. Giroud is a very good striker and was involved heavily in the comeback. Arshavin has been disappointing for Arsenal recently, but set up a goal at the weekend and was excellent at the Euros. Jenkinson is on the fringes of the England squad and has already played 12 matches this season. I reckon most Premier League sides would take them, I'd certainly want all of them in our first team (though not necessarily at the same time).

Miquel is inexperienced and was played out of position, Coquelin is inexperienced, Martinez might have been making his Arsenal debut, and Eisfield is practically unheard of outside of Arsenal fans.

Meanwhile, the second least experienced player on the pitch after Eisfield was Morrison, and we used a string of players who wouldn't get in many other Premiership sides- Tabb, HRK, Church, and on current form Gorkss and Federici, even McCleary, Gunter, Leigertwood, Shorey and Hunt probably wouldn't get in many PL sides- which leaves Roberts, McAnuff, and maybe Pog. It's not like this is Arsenal's first team losing to our reserve side, this is our reserves losing to their reserves.

We capitulated because we were inferior, because we were trying to hold a lead playing 4-4-2 against a passing side, and because the referee was treating them like the kids team getting thrashed, and didn't send off Koscielny, for example.

[Snowball]

The "B team" line is ridiculous. That Arsenal side cost £55 million, yet the implication is that we got slaughtered by a bunch of nobodies with no future in the game.

We also lost by two goals, not seven. Had the whistle gone 30 seconds earlier, who'd be talking about us getting thrashed 3-0 by a B team in the last 46 minutes?

I know most of the team board seem to have the samaritans on speed-dial, and only concede the glass might be half full because somebody might have pissed in it, but a 4-4 score at 90 minutes, even if one team did score all the last four, doesn't actually mean the team that equalised was far better.

TOTALLY agree

Koscielny & Djouru was the centre-back partnership last season when Arsenal beat Barcelona.

Giroud took the French league by storm last year and won a championship medal
then got bought for plenty of cash. He's scored 13 goals for France

Walcott is a superb player and is only not getting games because he won't sign a new contract.
if he was on a 5 year contract he'd go for 20-25 million

Jenkinson has already been called in to train with the England set-up. he only cost 1M
but that was a steal and he's going to be a top-top defender. has looked the business for the first team this season

Fringpong is VERY highly-rated as a killer midfielder and on this board yesterday (before the game)
people were saying that if he played he would totally bully/dominate midfield unless Legs played

12 Million. 156 appearances for Arsenal, 30 for England. Walcott
22 Million. 102 appearances for Arsenal, 75 for Russia. Arshavin
09 Million. 067 appearances for Arsenal. 06 for France. Koscielny
?? Million. 087 appearances for Arsenal. 33 for Switzerland. Dojorou
01 Million. 013 Appearances for Arsenal. England prospect
12 Million. 073 appearances for Montpelier (Champions) (33 Goals), 13 for France

Coquelin is a VG player as is the German kid

[Percy's Rocket]

Yes I am proud of what they have achieved, really proud but also for the first time ever I was really angry with them last night..and especially with Brian for that cheap shoddy substitution which was actually a blatant attempt to use up time that backfired.. and that is not hindsight..I was screaming at him not to do it

he gave the ref the excuse to extend the game.

I am angry because they threw away a chance to make it one of the best nights ever and instead it became one of the worst. I am sure they feel it from a professional point of view but as a fan it is worse because you look on helplessly as they just seem to panic and crumble and basic fundamentals (and all the good things that gave the four goal lead) just seem to go out of the window.

Two goals from corners inexcusable and two errors causing the first goal.but worse than that the passing and drive to go forward just left them.Arsenal were so there for the taking it was not true but we still feared them and it showed.

If there is money and apparently there is buy a new centre half of genuine proven prem quality and the others can work around him . I really like Gorkks but it just looks as though the level is beyond him.

As to sacking Brian..no way.. he does not deserve that and who do we get instead...Redknapp maybe...would the owner back him enough ? (and then we do a pompey ?)

[Ian Royal]

I have just realised that the difference of opinion here is our basic attitudes about the game.

I have and always will just love football. It has never been just about winning for me - so I can enjoy a great game even if we lose. I would much rather see my team show some fight and lose 7-5 than lose 3-0 and not putting a fight up at all.

It seems others are only interested in supporting a team that wins at all costs and seem embarrassed by the result. Frankly if you feel like that why on earth support a team like Reading FC. You really should be supporting Man U.

The only time I feel embarrassed is when the team don’t appear to be giving their all.

Your conclusion is fallacious.

[Rex]

I have just realised that the difference of opinion here is our basic attitudes about the game.

I have and always will just love football. It has never been just about winning for me -so I can enjoy a great game even if we lose. I would much rather see my team show some fight and lose 7-5 than lose 3-0 and not putting a fight up at all.

It seems others are only interested in supporting a team that wins at all costs and seem embarrassed by the result. Frankly if you feel like that why on earth support a team like Reading FC. You really should be supporting Man U.

The only time I feel embarrassed is when the team don’t appear to be giving their all.

There seems a slight contradiction in your post.
As an aside to a generalisation - do the team actually appear to not give their all - or individuals are up against a stronger and more tactically agile player both mentally and skilfully.

[robbieroyal]

Too many IF'S and BUT'S.

We were 4-0 up.

We were 4-2 up with 80 seconds of normal time remaining.

We did LOSE 5-7.

This is unforgivable. Nothing to be proud here. If anyone wasn't embarrassed by any of this then Shame on you.

So many opportunities to close the game out by players and management. Inexcusable.

[Hoop Blah]

@SCIAG & Snowball, irrespective of what they've done in the past that was still Arsenal's B team they put out. Very few of them will be in consideration for their team this weekend when they're back in the league whereas for our game all of our squad, bar Morrison, will potentially be starting.

Yes it may be a reasonably talented side, and some of those players will go on to have good careers, but right now only Jenkinson is really a first team player. Arshavin doesn't even make their first team player profiles page on their website!

Here's the respective league starts for the 11's both managers started with. That tells you a story...

Federici, 2
Gunter, 4
Shorey, 5
Morrison, 0
Gorkss, 8
McLeary, 3
Tabb, 2
Legiertwood, 7
Kanu, 1
Roberts, 1
Hunt, 2

Martinez, 0
Jenkinson, 8
Miquel, 0
Djourou, 0
Koscielny, 2
Walcott, 1
Frimpong, 0
Coquelin, 1
Gnarby, 0
Arshavin, 0
Chamakh, 0

[PistolPete]

What that really tells us is just how far away from us the top 4 (or 6) are when their reserve starting XI is that strong.

Lets not get away from the facts, we drew over 90 minutes and lost by 2 goals after 120, in that there is no disgrace.

Yes I got carried away with the thread title, but as an example, Ruud Van Nistelroy tweeted last night that he had 'fallen in love with the Capital One Cup', we had a part to play in that and yes I am 'proud' to support little old Reading - even, especially, on a night like that.

[cmonurz]

Lets not get away from the facts, we drew over 90 minutes and lost by 2 goals after 120, in that there is no disgrace.

Well you are, in that sentence, getting away from the facts of what happened, aren't you.

[Hoop Blah]

What that really tells us is just how far away from us the top 4 (or 6) are when their reserve starting XI is that strong.

Lets not get away from the facts, we drew over 90 minutes and lost by 2 goals after 120, in that there is no disgrace.

Yes I got carried away with the thread title, but as an example, Ruud Van Nistelroy tweeted last night that he had 'fallen in love with the Capital One Cup', we had a part to play in that and yes I am 'proud' to support little old Reading - even, especially, on a night like that.

But lets not pretend that, as good as some of those players are (or have been in the past and perhaps the future) it was absolutely Arsenals B team, mainly made up of players who are very unlikely to be starting league games for Arsenal and, with a couple of exception our team was selected from our normal first choice 15 and everyone is in real contention to play against QPR (or at least were before half time on Wednesday!).

[mr_number]

Lets not get away from the facts, we drew over 90 minutes and lost by 2 goals after 120, in that there is no disgrace.

Well you are, in that sentence, getting away from the facts of what happened, aren't you.

The referee oxf*rd us, he bottled it! oxf*rd oxf*rd scumbag piece of shit ref ruined it for us!

After a day's careful consideration, I've decided this is my view as well. Also that there was a conspiracy for refs in the TV games to get them into extra time to make the League Cup seem more exciting. I think I've nailed it.

[PistolPete]

Lets not get away from the facts, we drew over 90 minutes and lost by 2 goals after 120, in that there is no disgrace.

Well you are, in that sentence, getting away from the facts of what happened, aren't you.

I am getting away from some of the facts, but so are you. An essay into the finer details might prevent me from generalising about the game but I don't think much remains unsaid! We both know what happened, I'm just trying to offer a bit of balance to what I know was a disastrous hour of football. I was still proud to be a fan that night (yes, 'proud' Seb, just as it's possible to be 'proud to be English') rather than exclusively 'embarrassed'.

[melonhead]

not read the thread just seen the title.

I honestly think there has to be some kind of retardation in associating anything to do with last nights performance with the word 'proud'.

We try, but lets face it it was an utter utter shambles.

+1 - I've tried to say this, but a lot of people don't seem to understand the point.

im not proud of the performance at all-and said so
i gave some reasons _if pushed _for which i could be proud of bits of it

[melonhead]

@SCIAG & Snowball, irrespective of what they've done in the past that was still Arsenal's B team they put out. Very few of them will be in consideration for their team this weekend when they're back in the league whereas for our game all of our squad, bar Morrison, will potentially be starting.

Yes it may be a reasonably talented side, and some of those players will go on to have good careers, but right now only Jenkinson is really a first team player. Arshavin doesn't even make their first team player profiles page on their website!

Here's the respective league starts for the 11's both managers started with. That tells you a story...

Federici, 2
Gunter, 4
Shorey, 5
Morrison, 0
Gorkss, 8
McLeary, 3
Tabb, 2
Legiertwood, 7
Kanu, 1
Roberts, 1
Hunt, 2

Martinez, 0
Jenkinson, 8
Miquel, 0
Djourou, 0
Koscielny, 2
Walcott, 1
Frimpong, 0
Coquelin, 1
Gnarby, 0
Arshavin, 0
Chamakh, 0

stats can tell you whatever you want them to

if you made it total premiere league starts it would tell you a different story, and one perhaps more informative about the players relative experience and quality

[melonhead]

Lets not get away from the facts, we drew over 90 minutes and lost by 2 goals after 120, in that there is no disgrace.

Well you are, in that sentence, getting away from the facts of what happened, aren't you.

apart from the last bit, they ARE facts



the last bit is wrong, cos there was a little disgrace in it