Proud to be a Reading fan tonight

[Hoop Blah]

stats can tell you whatever you want them to

if you made it total premiere league starts it would tell you a different story, and one perhaps more informative about the players relative experience and quality

Possibly so, but the point I was making was that this was Arsenal's B team. How many games players have played in the past few seasons or over their career has no bearing on how Wenger rates them alongside the rest of his squad.

Adams and Keown have probably each played more Premier League games than the combined Arsenal starting 11 but that wouldn't make them any closer to being in their 'A team'.

[ZacNaloen]

There is pride in the first half performance but none in the way we conceeded two goals at the end of the game. But I can't blame the players for that, they got no support for their manager who should have made a change to tighten things up.

[Hoop Blah]

There is pride in the first half performance but none in the way we conceeded two goals at the end of the game. But I can't blame the players for that, they got no support for their manager who should have made a change to tighten things up.

Kind of agree to an extent, but there is no excuse for the ineptitude senior professionals showed in closing out the game. You don't need an extra man in midfield in order to know when to clear the ball or for the full back to stay back and defend his area of the pitch in the dieing moments of the game.

[melonhead]

stats can tell you whatever you want them to

if you made it total premiere league starts it would tell you a different story, and one perhaps more informative about the players relative experience and quality

Possibly so, but the point I was making was that this was Arsenal's B team. How many games players have played in the past few seasons or over their career has no bearing on how Wenger rates them alongside the rest of his squad.

Adams and Keown have probably each played more Premier League games than the combined Arsenal starting 11 but that wouldn't make them any closer to being in their 'A team'.

agree- it was clearly a B team, and still clearly better than half our A team
its just one that cost 50 odd million more than ours, and has much more prem/intl experience

[melonhead]

There is pride in the first half performance but none in the way we conceeded two goals at the end of the game. But I can't blame the players for that, they got no support for their manager who should have made a change to tighten things up.

if he had brought a defender on for a striker, half the people on here would have gone mental
and it would have resulted in us sitting back, inviting pressure onto our shaky defence, and wed have probably lost 10-4

[Maguire]

Someone on FaceSlag said the following which I think sums it up nicely

Reading FC did a good job of channeling the spirit of that bloke in Gladiator who pisses himself before getting his face staved in with a spiky ball. What's that sound RFC? It's the sound of one person very slowly clapping in an echoing warehouse. Bravo.

I can't see how anyone can see Tuesday night as anything other than a laughable capitulation. I don't feel personally humili8ed but I would if I managed that side or played in it. What an absolute shambles.

[ZacNaloen]

There is pride in the first half performance but none in the way we conceeded two goals at the end of the game. But I can't blame the players for that, they got no support for their manager who should have made a change to tighten things up.

if he had brought a defender on for a striker, half the people on here would have gone mental
and it would have resulted in us sitting back, inviting pressure onto our shaky defence, and wed have probably lost 10-4

We only needed to defend for 5 minutes!

We were inviting pressure as it was by not being able to get a foot on the ball once Roberts went off.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

@SCIAG & Snowball, irrespective of what they've done in the past that was still Arsenal's B team they put out. Very few of them will be in consideration for their team this weekend when they're back in the league whereas for our game all of our squad, bar Morrison, will potentially be starting.

Yes it may be a reasonably talented side, and some of those players will go on to have good careers, but right now only Jenkinson is really a first team player. Arshavin doesn't even make their first team player profiles page on their website!

Here's the respective league starts for the 11's both managers started with. That tells you a story...

Federici, 2
Gunter, 4
Shorey, 5
Morrison, 0
Gorkss, 8
McLeary, 3
Tabb, 2
Legiertwood, 7
Kanu, 1
Roberts, 1
Hunt, 2

Martinez, 0
Jenkinson, 8
Miquel, 0
Djourou, 0
Koscielny, 2
Walcott, 1
Frimpong, 0
Coquelin, 1
Gnarby, 0
Arshavin, 0
Chamakh, 0

stats can tell you whatever you want them to

if you made it total premiere league starts it would tell you a different story, and one perhaps more informative about the players relative experience and quality

Those stats tell you absolutely nothing about the quality of the players. Getting into Arsenal's first team is a shade more difficult than getting into Reading's.

It's like saying Gorkss should have easily been able to handle Walcott, because he's played 47 times for Latvia, while Walcott's only played 30 times for England.

[melonhead]

There is pride in the first half performance but none in the way we conceeded two goals at the end of the game. But I can't blame the players for that, they got no support for their manager who should have made a change to tighten things up.

if he had brought a defender on for a striker, half the people on here would have gone mental
and it would have resulted in us sitting back, inviting pressure onto our shaky defence, and wed have probably lost 10-4

We only needed to defend for 5 minutes!

We were inviting pressure as it was by not being able to get a foot on the ball once Roberts went off.

i agree, that taking roberts and nhunt was the difference, imo
but they were both shattered
im just saying bringing on a defender could easily have led to even more pressure, not less

[ZacNaloen]

I accept that Roberts was perhaps tired and needed to come off (although he looked fine to me though), but putting on a striker that can't do the job either of them was doing half as well when you could have brought a defender on to protect was a tactical error.

[Hoop Blah]

Those stats tell you absolutely nothing about the quality of the players. Getting into Arsenal's first team is a shade more difficult than getting into Reading's.

It's like saying Gorkss should have easily been able to handle Walcott, because he's played 47 times for Latvia, while Walcott's only played 30 times for England.

But it does tell you it's their B Team.

Some of those players have been, at times, very good players but currently they can't get a game for Arsenals first team.

I don't expect Reading to compete with the likes of Arsenal, City, Chelsea and United and I don't expect us to have squads of the same quality either. That doesn't detract from the fact that the side they put out was not their first team and that most of them aren't involved with the first team at all.

What I do expect is for our players to be professional enough to put in a better performance than I saw for the second half of normal time on Tuesday night, irrespective of the opposition.

[melonhead]

I accept that Roberts was perhaps tired and needed to come off (although he looked fine to me though), but putting on a striker that can't do the job either of them was doing half as well when you could have brought a defender on to protect was a tactical error.

kevin dillon said hed have made exactly the same decision

and i quote "cos churchy would chase a paper bag all day long"

[ZacNaloen]

Kevin Dillon failed at Aldershot

[melonhead]

he did follow it up with " but i guess that means i would have lost 7-5 too"


i only added the quote for the lols, not cos i thought dillon backing me up would win the argument


he still knows more than yow though

[ZacNaloen]

I'm sure he's a good coach.

[Hoop Blah]

But it does tell you it's their B Team.

Yeah, a B-team containing Walcott, Arshavin, Giroud (top scorer in french league last year), and a number of top level players with international experience to their names.
Yes, it's their B-team, but each and every one of the players they fielded have to be considered lightyears better than anyone we fielded.

This also brings up another matter, the fact that our 2nd string is so poor.
When we sub someone and bring on Church, it's like amputating a leg.
We need better backups, better squad players. That's all there is to it.

Each and everyone? Have you watched Arshavin the last 18 months? He was a special player when they signed him but his performances of late are exactly why he's not really got a game this season. He was absolutely awful for pretty much the whole game.

The likes of the keeper, left back (Miquel), Gnarby, Eisfeld, and even Frimpong are lightyears ahead of our established senior pro's? These are kids that might turn into decent players, but there is nothing to say they're better than our players as yet and if I were a senior pro I'd be gutted to think they'd run rings round me.

It was a rank bad performance from half time onwards and against a team who put in one of the worst 45 minutes of football I've seen against us in the last 18 months. They couldn't string two passes together for 45 minutes, couldn't tackle and couldn't even make basic clearances or control the ball to get the ball out of their half. We let them back into the game in the second half and our players will know it.

[Dave the rave]

I'm sorry Hoop but you need to back down on this one.

The side Arsenal put out was better than the one we put out. Simple as. A, B, Cs don't matter. Nor does the cost of the team.
Their individuals were/are better than our individuals.

In fact you could suppose that their 'B' side spend a lot of time training against their 'A' side so should be more than a match for most teams but that's not the argument.

Still doesn't mean we should have shipped a load of goal like we did, mind.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Those stats tell you absolutely nothing about the quality of the players. Getting into Arsenal's first team is a shade more difficult than getting into Reading's.

It's like saying Gorkss should have easily been able to handle Walcott, because he's played 47 times for Latvia, while Walcott's only played 30 times for England.

But it does tell you it's their B Team.

Yes it does.

You just have it in you head that "B team" means a team that's not much good. Arsenal's B team has been consistently beating premier league teams and getting into the latter stages of cups for years.

We dominated for 45 minutes, then they dominated for 45, drawing level. I'd actually say we dominated just as much in our good half than they did in theirs. It's as if people seem determined to forget the huge contribution we made to the match, and paint it as if we lost 1-7.

[Snowball]

We played a fullback who had been recently dropped,

An overweight keeper who had had a disastrous start
to the season and was coming back from injury

Our centreback was aged 21 and had never played a league game for RFC and just one cup game a season ago
and last season was playing in League 1

We dropped our Captain and our much-vaunted Russian striker Pog, (our top-scorer)

Our other, admittedly good striker (Roberts) was still striving for complete match fitness

and both wingers were the usual second-choices/impact subs

and JAY TABB, who was a bit-part player in the championship last season

Arsenal had 55 Million quid's worth of buys on the pitch and Fringpong, Coquelin

[Snowball]

Arsenal had a total of 500 premiership appearances in their team for Tuesday
plus about 600 Top Flight appearances in France and Russia and shedloads of
European experience.



Coquelin has made12 Premiership appearances for Arsenal and was MotM v Spurs last year. He started in the Champions League away to Olympiacos. He has been a regular at every age level for France except the senior side. He signed a new long-term deal with Arsenal this January.

Jenkinson played 9 Premiership games last season and has started 8/9 Premiership games this season and is already on the fringes of the England team


Frimpong 6 Premiership Appearances. Highly rated by Wenger

Giroud 9 Prem appearances for Arsenal won the French League last year and was the league's top-scorer, cost a bargain 12 Million, has played 13 times for France

Arshavin cost at least £15 Million, 101 Premiership appearances for Arsenal, 236 for top Russian side Zenit St Petersburgh. Has won the Russian league, the Russian League Cup, the Russian Super Cup, the EUFA Cup, the EUFA Super Cup and was Russian Foot baller of the Year. He captained the Russia side for whom he has played 75 times. In 2009 he scored four goals at Anfield in a 4-4 draw!

Chamakh has appeared 40 times in the Premiership for Arsenal and played 230 games for Bordeaux, 61 times for Morocco. In 8 consecutive Champions League matches he scored 7 goals.

Djorou has made 99 Premiership appearances, 86 for Arsenal. He was CB when Arsenal beat Barcelona. He has played 33 games for Switzerland. He was first-choice CB in January 2011 when Arsenal played 8 games all clean sheets. In 2010-22 he payed 37 times for Arsenal. Last season he had 27 appearances

Koscielny played 35 times in the top division in France and has made 67 appearances for Arsenal in the Premiership. He has plenty of Champions League experience and was the CB partner of Djouru when Arsenal beat Barcelona 2-1. Voted 4th most important Arsenal player last season. Played 6 times for France

Walcott cost Arsenal 12 Million and has made 156 Premiership appearances, 30 games for England

Eisfield cost half a million, was in Arsenal's 24-man squad for the tour of Asia. He is a HUGE prospect and is being hailed as the new Freddy Ljunberg

Gnabry has been hailed as a super talent and has already broken into the Arsenal first team squad (100K) Gnabry was listed by Goal.com as one of the ten biggest talents in the world leading up to 12/13 season. Gnabry is widely perceived to be one of the bright stars of the future in German football and has been praised for his combination of technique and physical power.