Proud to be a Reading fan tonight

[Hoop Blah]

I've not said the B Team wasn't much good. I've just said it's their B team because people keep saying it wasn't!

As a further point, and not the one I was originally making, some of those players wouldn't get picked in our side (at the moment) over and above the players we have.

We lost to their B team. That is an absolute fact because only 1 of their players is starting for their first team on a regular basis. Our side, on the other hand, was made up of players who will, and have been, starting games for us in the league and were the best players available for McDermott (in his opinion, judging by his league team selections).

Whether their B team is better than our A team is irrelevant to the point I was making that it wasn't their first team that beat us.

[Snowball]

[.

The likes of the keeper, left back (Miquel), Gnarby, Eisfeld, and even Frimpong are lightyears ahead of our established senior pro's? These are kids that might turn into decent players, but there is nothing to say they're better than our players as yet and if I were a senior pro I'd be gutted to think they'd run rings round me.

.

Gnabry was listed by Goal.com as one of the ten biggest talents in the world leading up to 12/13 season and is widely perceived to be one of the bright stars of the future in German football and has been praised for his combination of technique and physical power.


Eisfield has been getting rave reviews and looks a shoe-in to be a top star

[cmonurz]

I think we all get the difference in class between the teams Snowball, but this debate wouldn’t be being had if we had battled hard but utlimately lost 2-0 or 3-0 to an obviously better side.

Instead we capitulated from a position no football team should fail to win from really, whatever the circumstances.

[Hoop Blah]

Arsenal had a total of 500 premiership appearances in their team for Tuesday
plus about 600 Top Flight appearances in France and Russia and shedloads of
European experience.



Coquelin has made12 Premiership appearances for Arsenal and was MotM v Spurs last year. He started in the Champions League away to Olympiacos. He has been a regular at every age level for France except the senior side. He signed a new long-term deal with Arsenal this January.

Jenkinson played 9 Premiership games last season and has started 8/9 Premiership games this season and is already on the fringes of the England team


Frimpong 6 Premiership Appearances. Highly rated by Wenger

Giroud 9 Prem appearances for Arsenal won the French League last year and was the league's top-scorer, cost a bargain 12 Million, has played 13 times for France

Arshavin cost at least £15 Million, 101 Premiership appearances for Arsenal, 236 for top Russian side Zenit St Petersburgh. Has won the Russian league, the Russian League Cup, the Russian Super Cup, the EUFA Cup, the EUFA Super Cup and was Russian Foot baller of the Year. He captained the Russia side for whom he has played 75 times. In 2009 he scored four goals at Anfield in a 4-4 draw!

Chamakh has appeared 40 times in the Premiership for Arsenal and played 230 games for Bordeaux, 61 times for Morocco. In 8 consecutive Champions League matches he scored 7 goals.

Djorou has made 99 Premiership appearances, 86 for Arsenal. He was CB when Arsenal beat Barcelona. He has played 33 games for Switzerland. He was first-choice CB in January 2011 when Arsenal played 8 games all clean sheets. In 2010-22 he payed 37 times for Arsenal. Last season he had 27 appearances

Koscielny played 35 times in the top division in France and has made 67 appearances for Arsenal in the Premiership. He has plenty of Champions League experience and was the CB partner of Djouru when Arsenal beat Barcelona 2-1. Voted 4th most important Arsenal player last season. Played 6 times for France

Walcott cost Arsenal 12 Million and has made 156 Premiership appearances, 30 games for England

Eisfield cost half a million, was in Arsenal's 24-man squad for the tour of Asia. He is a HUGE prospect and is being hailed as the new Freddy Ljunberg

Gnabry has been hailed as a super talent and has already broken into the Arsenal first team squad (100K) Gnabry was listed by Goal.com as one of the ten biggest talents in the world leading up to 12/13 season. Gnabry is widely perceived to be one of the bright stars of the future in German football and has been praised for his combination of technique and physical power.

Great, and how many of those have been first team players on a regular basis this season? 1. How many would've started if it were a Champions League game or Premier League game? 1, maybe 2 or perhaps 3 at the most?

How many of ours will start against QPR? 5 or 6 I'd guess, and the rest, bar Morrison and Tabb, are all players who've been first choice in their position this season when everyone else in their position has been available to the manager.

[Snowball]

Our side, on the other hand, was made up of players who will, and have been, starting games for us in the league and were the best players available for McDermott (in his opinion, judging by his league team selections).

Nonsense. In "pecking order" terms...


Kebe is currently ahead of McCleary. Didn't play

McAnuff is ahead of Hal Robson-Kanu. Didn't play.

Cummings is ahead of Gunter. Didn't play.

McArthy (IMO) is ahead of Federici. Didn't play.

Pearce is ahead of Morrison. Didn't Play

Marriappa is ahead of Morrison. Didn't play.

Tabb is barely a squad player. Played.

and Church?

[Hoop Blah]

[.

The likes of the keeper, left back (Miquel), Gnarby, Eisfeld, and even Frimpong are lightyears ahead of our established senior pro's? These are kids that might turn into decent players, but there is nothing to say they're better than our players as yet and if I were a senior pro I'd be gutted to think they'd run rings round me.

.

Gnabry was listed by Goal.com as one of the ten biggest talents in the world leading up to 12/13 season and is widely perceived to be one of the bright stars of the future in German football and has been praised for his combination of technique and physical power.


Eisfield has been getting rave reviews and looks a shoe-in to be a top star

These are players for the future though. As I've said, in the future some of them may turn into very good players. At the moment though they are kids that a senior pro should be pretty comfortable dealing with once they're 4-0 up!

As great as their reviews may be (and don't forget this is all PR you're talking about, like ours has been for many of our junior players) they are not first team players.

[cmonurz]

As great as their reviews may be (and don't forget this is all PR you're talking about, like ours has been for many of our junior players) they are not first team players.

Absolutely - based on PR, Neville Roach might have won the Ballon d'Or.

[Hoop Blah]

Our side, on the other hand, was made up of players who will, and have been, starting games for us in the league and were the best players available for McDermott (in his opinion, judging by his league team selections).

Nonsense. In "pecking order" terms...


Kebe is currently ahead of McCleary. Didn't play

McAnuff is ahead of Hal Robson-Kanu. Didn't play.

Cummings is ahead of Gunter. Didn't play.

McArthy (IMO) is ahead of Federici. Didn't play.

Pearce is ahead of Morrison. Didn't Play

Marriappa is ahead of Morrison. Didn't play.

Tabb is barely a squad player. Played.

and Church?

That perhaps didn't come out as I intended it. They've all been players he's selected for league games and been the best available at those times (the wingers were obviously our backup pair) and are genuine first team players, not just players waiting for a distant chance (all bar Morrison that is).

Tabb is currenlty our 3 choice central midfielder (and one of those ahead of him is injured.

Eg, Gunter and Federici have both been selected for our first team when McCarthy and Cummings have been available. Roberts and Hunt are both players who will start League games for us when everyone is fit etc

I wasn't trying to say all 11 on Wednesday are our first choice 11 that will start against QPR or played v Fulham. That would obviously be wrong.

The majority (not all because some are) of the Arsenal team that started are not really in contention for a start in the League.

[Royal91]

Could be worse could be an Ipswich fan!

[melonhead]

and look how much they spent last year!

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I think we all get the difference in class between the teams Snowball, but this debate wouldn’t be being had if we had battled hard but utlimately lost 2-0 or 3-0 to an obviously better side.

Instead we capitulated from a position no football team should fail to win from really, whatever the circumstances.

Usually when a team is 4-0 down, it's because they are being outplayed by a far better team. It's bound to be far harder to come back in such circumstances. It's incredibly rare to go 4-0 against a team that are more talented than you are.

I'd maintain us going 4-0 up was more of a shock than them coming back. At half time I really was wondering if 4-1 would be enough. Had we been playing an average premier league team, I wouldn't have been worried.

I do think if we hadn't let in such a sloppy goal just before half-time, they wouldn't have come back. Instead, it gives them a bit of hope, and sets nerves jangling in the Reading camp.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

These are players for the future though. As I've said, in the future some of them may turn into very good players. At the moment though they are kids that a senior pro should be pretty comfortable dealing with once they're 4-0 up!

As great as their reviews may be (and don't forget this is all PR you're talking about, like ours has been for many of our junior players) they are not first team players.

I take it when we were fielding young sides in cup ties against lower league opposition a few years ago, you were utterly amazed how these kids could beat the seasoned pros from a division below?

Really, you make it sound like just because they aren't regulars in Arsenal's first team they must be naive young things that any pro should handle with ease.

B team of not, they are a better team than us.

Yes, we shouldn't have blown a 4-0 goal, but they shouldn't have gone 0-4 down to us either.

The annoying the for me was how soft some of their goals were. We actually worked really hard to try and keep them out, then concede two goals from free headers at corners, for example. We let them back into the game through a misplaced header. We let in a 7th because the defender inexplicably ducks under the ball rather than heading it. In the last seconds or normal time, when everyone should have been defending, we still had players pushed forward.

[floyd__streete]

Yes we lost. Yes we lost after being 4-0 up. But we had the character to come back from 4-5 (and got beaten by a team with £40m worth of striking talent on the pitch.)

We showed that we can put on one of the greatest games of football this country has ever seen.

Why blame Anton for not spending? We're not down yet and there's no certainty that any big money signings would have paid off. Why blame the manager for trying a 'togetherness' theory? Maybe it's not too late to change his mind. Why blame Roberts for talking on the radio as if he should be playing football better? He seemed alright to me tonight. Why blame McDermott for making a sub in injury time? The net gain in time for Arsenal was zero.

You lot are a moaning and fickle lot - Shorey was not wanted and not good enough but McDermott proved us wrong. He proved us wrong on Shane Long, he proved us wrong on Leigerwood, he proves us wrong time after time so let's just accept he'll make the odd mistake and is as good a man as any to move us forward...

We were 5 seconds from a fantastic win, let's not forget that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qC73mL4ZFo

[Hoop Blah]

I take it when we were fielding young sides in cup ties against lower league opposition a few years ago, you were utterly amazed how these kids could beat the seasoned pros from a division below?

I might if that ever really happened! We played fringe players yes, as did Arsenal, but we didn't through loads of kids in together as such, and when we did do a bit more of that we weren't really successful at it.

Really, you make it sound like just because they aren't regulars in Arsenal's first team they must be naive young things that any pro should handle with ease.

B team of not, they are a better team than us.

I'm not saying they should find it a stroll in the park but they should, as a collective of players we have as Premier League starters be able to close out the game against that mix of talent and inexperience that Arsenal put out against us. I'm sure those that matter at RFC will agree with that.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I take it when we were fielding young sides in cup ties against lower league opposition a few years ago, you were utterly amazed how these kids could beat the seasoned pros from a division below?

I might if that ever really happened! We played fringe players yes, as did Arsenal, but we didn't through loads of kids in together as such, and when we did do a bit more of that we weren't really successful at it.

That B team was Arsenal's fringe players. It wasn't the youth team

I'm not saying they should find it a stroll in the park but they should, as a collective of players we have as Premier League starters be able to close out the game against that mix of talent and inexperience that Arsenal put out against us. I'm sure those that matter at RFC will agree with that.

Playing four games in this year's Reading team in the premier league doesn't suddenly give you a noticeable advantage over a 19 year old Arsenal reserve player.

I'm sure that those that matter will be able to judge a team on their ability, not by their 2012/13 stats on wikipedia, and consequently will be more concerned with a team scoring from two free headers at corners etc, not the fact that is was a "B team".

[Arch]

The thing I don't get in all this is the idea that something ground-breakingly new happened on Tuesday night, something that finally exposes the frailties that have been hidden, shows the emperor is really stark naked. The fact is, the game was pretty much business as usual for Reading for about as long as I've been a fan which goes back to about 1971. We are the team who get beat 7-5 in outlandish circumstances (or 6-4 or 7-4 or 7-5 again). We are also the team who win thirteen times in a row from the first game of the season, who get 106 points in the second tier, who beat Liverpool thanks to the mercurial skills of Brynjar Gunnarson, who put six past Wednesday within hours of Schards' famous "dull and uninspiring" speech. In my first season following Reading as a youngster we twice lost to Bury 5-1, but we also thrashed some people. What people don't seem to appreciate is that Reading are interesting - to the public at large, and not just because we are involved in games like Tuesday's, but because we do things like win the Championship against more vaunted opposition from a position of almost impossible weakness. Pride in Reading is not just pride in any old football team but pride in one that's constantly involved in events that catch the public imagination. We love to pretend that people or the press don't care about or notice us, but the fact is they do. Reading are a fun club for many different reasons. It's unceasingly entertaining following this club, and Tuesday was just another night at the theater.

[Libertine]

Our side, on the other hand, was made up of players who will, and have been, starting games for us in the league and were the best players available for McDermott (in his opinion, judging by his league team selections).

Nonsense. In "pecking order" terms...


Kebe is currently ahead of McCleary. Didn't play

McAnuff is ahead of Hal Robson-Kanu. Didn't play.

Cummings is ahead of Gunter. Didn't play.

McArthy (IMO) is ahead of Federici. Didn't play.

Pearce is ahead of Morrison. Didn't Play

Marriappa is ahead of Morrison. Didn't play.

Tabb is barely a squad player. Played.

and Church?

There is basically no difference between Kebe and McCleary at this point. Both bring a "hit or miss" game to the pitch.

Will agree that McAnuff is first choice versus HRK. But Jobi did play for 52 minutes of the game Tuesday evening.

Cummings right now is first choice, but the difference in the quality of play between he and Gunter is slight.

McCarthy has been first choice but mainly due to Fed's injury, and has played very well when called upon. In the club's eyes, when healthy, Feds is our #1 keeper.

Pearce hasn't seen any time in almost a month. For whatever reason (contractual from what I hear) Pearce is not one of our first choice CB's.

Yes. Mariappa is ahead of Morrison.

And finally Tabb. A squad player? Right now Jay Tabb, with the injury to Jem and Guthrie appearing not to be an option, is our 1st choice CM! Think about that. I love Jay Tabb, he is a hard worker. But right now, and as long as Jem is out injured and Guthrie is out of favor, he is a 1st choice CM for a Premier League club.

Right now this appears to be our first choice team;

-------------McCarthy------------------
Cummings-Mariappa-Gorkss-Shorey
Kebe-Leigertwood-Tabb-McAnuff
--------Pogrebnyak-Hunt-------------

Other than the keeper everyone but Mariappa, Cummings and Kebe saw extended periods on the pitch against Arsenal. Besides the keeper 7 out of the 10 players who are considered, as of right now albeit maybe not preferred, 1st choice right now played extensively on Tuesday. Ironically one of the best on Tuesday was Roberts and he isn't on the chart. After Tuesday's game he will (and should imo) be. But the irony of it is our strongest position right now appears to be striker, with Pogrebnyak, Hunt, Roberts and Alf all playing well when called upon, while most people considered our strikers our weakest position at the beginning of the season.

No, seriously, Jay Tabb is our preferred 1st team Premier League CM with Jem hurt?

[Elm Park Pasty]

The thing I don't get in all this is the idea that something ground-breakingly new happened on Tuesday night, something that finally exposes the frailties that have been hidden, shows the emperor is really stark naked. The fact is, the game was pretty much business as usual for Reading for about as long as I've been a fan which goes back to about 1971. We are the team who get beat 7-5 in outlandish circumstances (or 6-4 or 7-4 or 7-5 again). We are also the team who win thirteen times in a row from the first game of the season, who get 106 points in the second tier, who beat Liverpool thanks to the mercurial skills of Brynjar Gunnarson, who put six past Wednesday within hours of Schards' famous "dull and uninspiring" speech. In my first season following Reading as a youngster we twice lost to Bury 5-1, but we also thrashed some people. What people don't seem to appreciate is that Reading are interesting - to the public at large, and not just because we are involved in games like Tuesday's, but because we do things like win the Championship against more vaunted opposition from a position of almost impossible weakness. Pride in Reading is not just pride in any old football team but pride in one that's constantly involved in events that catch the public imagination. We love to pretend that people or the press don't care about or notice us, but the fact is they do. Reading are a fun club for many different reasons. It's unceasingly entertaining following this club, and Tuesday was just another night at the theater.

I posted this in the other Reading fan page, but as I liked what Arch said, and as I am proud of (and frustrated by!) my team, I have given myself permission to reproduce it here:


I think we all know the other night was a complete disaster, only a fool would really suggest otherwise. No team should give up a four goal lead, I don't care if you are Arsenal playing Barcelona. We could all have taken losing 7-5 if the goals had been shared throughout the game. However, that game is gone. I find some of the blood letting and almost suicidal talk since then ridiculous. IT WAS ONE GAME!!! It wasn't even a league match for god's sake. Get some perspective people. The thing is going to be how the team move on from here, and getting results from now on. On 22 October 2006 we were beaten 4-0 at home, strangely enough by Arsenal. We finished 8th, 8th in the Premier League. One game does not a season make.

Following Reading FC is a bit of a strange story if you've been round long enough. Excepting Wigan, there are probably not many clubs that have risen from the bottom of the Third/Fourth tiers of English football to be in and around the Premier League. Yes, Southampton and Norwich have made their way through but they had to come down first. I don't think if you were around in the Seventies it makes you a better fan from someone who started following last season, but it does give you a much more rounded perspective. A fan from 2005 has tasted success and failure of equal feeling to a longer fan but at a higher level of football. I was there for 1-6 against Crystal Palace and the Uri Gellar spoon bending afterwards, the 0-6 against Bristol Rovers where it was 0-0 at half time, Pants for Pants, the game against Notts County where we were so bad that we only won 1-0 cos they scored for us. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else, what it does make me is someone who remembers that there are some games where we have played appallingly, and the most important thing was always what happened next............