How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

[The Quiet Man]

I wouldn't say we were lucky last season I just think we found the perfect championship percentage football and significantly overachieved given the players we had. What we are now discovering is that you can't play championship football in the premier league. Specifically we are struggling badly against 3 in midfield which we also did consistently in the championship as well. In the premier league you have to be able to consistently pass the ball and the players we have got can't do that, they punt long when they come under pressure - the alternative is you play Stoke's pressing game but you have very physcial energetic midfield and the ability to run corners (which we have only had with Roberts in the side) which we can do for about 60 minutes but then people like Mcanuff are spent and we can't keep the pressure on and concede huge amounts of space late on in games.

The cost of stripping out and refitting the side which significantly overchieved to get promoted was horrendous and the hope was surely that some of the current first team would come good at the next level. We've seen Morrison and McCarthy show promise but the remainder of the squad look championship journeymen or they don't fit in to the playing style (Guthrie and Pog).

The manager is doing his best but I'm sure privately he must have been disappointed with some performances and aware of the areas of weakness. The difficulty with the premier league is that once the window shuts you have no loan opportunities and you live or die on your signings and in Guthrie and Pog we just didn't get it right but those margins are very narrow because by the time the window closed there was no indication that those players would turn out quite so badly.

Quite what the financial background is I'm not too sure but if we are being constantly told there is very little money available for January and we spent less than almost everyone else in August then the whole AZ takeover has been a bit of a damp sqib and just like under Sir John we are just not going to be able to compete at the highest level.

If the manager has to go (and I hope he doesn't) then the replacement will have the same task, form a squad that overachieves by 20-30% and somehow hope that it can survive a the highest level, so it will be another hungry lower league manager and another bunch of low cost players while we do things the Reading way and hope we strike lucky again.

[Hoop Blah]

The truth is that without spending tens of millions we won’t have the players who can play that way - so we need to accept that our style is the “Reading way” and we need to stick with Brian. Lets face it the current style has just brought the most successful ever decade at the club by far.

I disagree that you need players who cost fortunes to play that way successfully. Swansea didn't spend much putting their team together, and nor have Wigan or Norwich really (the latter don't play quite so patiently but they pass the ball more than us). In the Championship; Brighton, 'Boro and Peterborough haven't spent silly amounts of money building teams that play a style based more on technicalique and movement, albeit with varying degrees of success.

It can take time to implement yes, but it doesn't really take any more money.

I'm not saying that McDermotts style of play hasn't been relatively successful for us though, although might argue that the current brand is that similar to Coppell's teams (I'd say we're a lot more direct and percentage football focus than with Harder, Sidwell, Little and Kitson in the side. That might be splitting hairs to an extent though!).

[domo]

I dont normally post on here but its raining and Im bored of my work so here is my pennies worth..
I like Brian and has done a lot better than I ever expected him to. The trouble for me is the style of football that permeates all the way through the club and for the last few years is a very predictable style with from waht I can see no potnetial to change
Direct fast wing play and counter attacking..to me its like Readin are playing the way they did (not as well ) as in 2005/6 and the world football had continued to develop while we still play in the same way.
As a result everyone on the Reading infrastructure is used to building and developing this style and we dont bring in people who will challenge and question this approach..tbf last year I thought that while we punched above our weight,overachieved etc, we were in general, extremely boring to watch (with the exception of a few games). Until the club takes that decsion to look at how the rest of the football world hhas taken on new ideas new approaches etc we will always struggle UNLESS we get the very best players of the type we use
So..wingers have to be more skilful, better at delivery, vision etc than any we have currently, Midfields have to be the best at shutting down , spoling etc, strikers have to be Shane Long like and defenders have to be..good at defending.. So if you want to play like this and have a level of success then you need Stoke type players etc who have cost a lot more than our lot..
Alternatively you can do what other teams like Swansea Wigan and others have done but it takes time..it absolutely does not need to cost more and if patient probably costs a lot less, but the management, coaching staff from academy up proably need to relearn (which is tough) or leave, and the supporters probably have to accept potnetial relegation, defeats, etc while that transititon takes place.
I was also one that could see what Rodgers was trying to do (and saw his impact at academy level as my son is at one that plays reading chelsea and others) and was beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the patience wasnt there..to me thats the biggest chance we ever had of changing and now its going to take lot more to make it happen .
The academy players who I have watched are being developed in the Reading way (although did see some really promising ones when they came to Fulham) which is a shame as thats where it can have a great impact ...I am a STH and go to virtually all the games but in the last 2-3 years I cant say I have enjoyed the football being served up that much but there isnt a magical cure..just a brave one.

[domo]

and apologies for my english but Im a very lazy typer...

[Esteban]

Specifically we are struggling badly against 3 in midfield which we also did consistently in the championship as well.

This hits the nail on the head. Burnley, Peterborough and Cardiff immediately spring to mind as examples last season where we really struggled against a formation that allowed a fluidity up font and in midfield. We were very fortunate to beat Burnley twice and Peterborough at home. Consistently we have struggled against this formation and we need to find an answer to it, because we come up against that system a lot more in the PL.

However, we couldn't make wholesale changes in the summer due to a lack of money and as a result, we've had to go back to the system we used last season. A style that we know, and I'm sure Brian knows too, was a risk. But when your transfers don't fit in and you are losing games, you have to try something to change it. We tried playing with a new system and it failed us, so he went back to where we found success over the past two and a half seasons. It's hard to fault that logic. It's also hard to deny that when we did go back to that system, we looked better. Maybe only marginally, but better.

Our problem is a lack of quality, but that costs a fortune. We made a calculated risk with the players we brought in. We signed some of the best players from the Championship, two seasoned PL players and took a gamble on Pogrebnyak. It's a broad brush and the hope was that it would work out. Aside from Shorey and arguably McCleary, it hasn't.

Some will argue that we should have spent more money on one or two players, but we'd have been left short in other areas. That strategy may have worked for us, but is perhaps more of a gamble. Time will tell whether or not we've got enough to stay up, but I don't think that sacking Brian is the answer. He has consistently got the best out of this group of players, they are still playing for him and he's had success for pretty much his entire time as manager. It's hard to think of anyone else who could come and make a difference big enough to guarantee survival. A new manager would cost a lot of money in compensation to Brian and, presumably, Nigel Gibbs, in compensation to a club (how many currently out of work managers could come in and make a difference?) and in other fees. On balance, keeping Brian in his job seems to me to be the best option at present.

As a slight aside, this article gives an interesting take on the style of managers and offers opinion on the language used by McDermott and his peers: http://www.impresscoaching.co.uk/2012/11/the-relegation-dog-fight-which-managers-can-inspire-their-teams-to-safety/

[Royal Rother]

Quite what the financial background is I'm not too sure but if we are being constantly told there is very little money available for January and we spent less than almost everyone else in August then the whole AZ takeover has been a bit of a damp sqib and just like under Sir John we are just not going to be able to compete at the highest level.

Not having a pop at you TQM (good to see you posting again) but continuation of the policies under SJM was exactly what we were told to expect. Just that there would be a bit of extra financial muscle meaning we wouldn't have to sell our best players every season.

The ethos of the club was not going to change.

My fear as soon as TSI's involvement was announced was that the whole ethos was going to change and that RFC would become a wealthy benefactor's plaything, turned on in the short-term by chucking tens of millions at the club thereby risking undoing everything that SJM spent 20 years carefully building, brick by brick as it were.

Thankfully that has not happened.

Reading FC has, so far, retained its soul. I think it's sad that so many on here appear not to value that.

I have said it before but I would rather have the opportunity to watch RFC in the Championship next season with the likes of Samuel, D'Ath, Ikpeazu et al wearing the hoops than see us struggling week after week with incessant moaning from the fans in the PL.

But then to me it's only a game. And whatever level the club is playing at, rest assured it is only doing so thanks to the investment of SJM and AZ, not the fans and not Sky. So if they choose to hold the purse strings tightly I suggest that is what we should all accept. Or find another club to support.

[sandman]

Given their 8 game winning streak, top place in their national group, and the top scorer in the Academy Leagues I personally feel that the entire Academy setup should be dismantled with immediate effect.

[Royal Bahamas]

I dont normally post on here but its raining and Im bored of my work so here is my pennies worth..
I like Brian and has done a lot better than I ever expected him to. The trouble for me is the style of football that permeates all the way through the club and for the last few years is a very predictable style with from waht I can see no potnetial to change
Direct fast wing play and counter attacking..to me its like Readin are playing the way they did (not as well ) as in 2005/6 and the world football had continued to develop while we still play in the same way.
As a result everyone on the Reading infrastructure is used to building and developing this style and we dont bring in people who will challenge and question this approach..tbf last year I thought that while we punched above our weight,overachieved etc, we were in general, extremely boring to watch (with the exception of a few games). Until the club takes that decsion to look at how the rest of the football world hhas taken on new ideas new approaches etc we will always struggle UNLESS we get the very best players of the type we use
So..wingers have to be more skilful, better at delivery, vision etc than any we have currently, Midfields have to be the best at shutting down , spoling etc, strikers have to be Shane Long like and defenders have to be..good at defending.. So if you want to play like this and have a level of success then you need Stoke type players etc who have cost a lot more than our lot..
Alternatively you can do what other teams like Swansea Wigan and others have done but it takes time..it absolutely does not need to cost more and if patient probably costs a lot less, but the management, coaching staff from academy up proably need to relearn (which is tough) or leave, and the supporters probably have to accept potnetial relegation, defeats, etc while that transititon takes place.
I was also one that could see what Rodgers was trying to do (and saw his impact at academy level as my son is at one that plays reading chelsea and others) and was beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the patience wasnt there..to me thats the biggest chance we ever had of changing and now its going to take lot more to make it happen .
The academy players who I have watched are being developed in the Reading way (although did see some really promising ones when they came to Fulham) which is a shame as thats where it can have a great impact ...I am a STH and go to virtually all the games but in the last 2-3 years I cant say I have enjoyed the football being served up that much but there isnt a magical cure..just a brave one.

I keep reading that we have a predictable style of play, etc, etc, ..... but the one thing that we can do on a regular basis is SCORE Goals, so that is NOT our problem area. Our problem is that we let their goals in! Last year, we had a team spirit, that saw an 11-man defence, when required. A Work ethic that was unparralled in the Championship. That 'Team Ethic' is not working so well this year. Of course the standards are much higher, which is what is expected in the EPL, and there are positions that we are hurting in, as far as our Defence is concerned, but there is not the 'Team' there right now, that is fighting to get back and cover the gaps. When you can have 4 to 5 players LOOKING at a ball bouncing around them, and not one of them moving for it, there is a lack of "THAT'S MINE" mentality, that we had last year. If we get that back, even with the players we have, WE CAN still SUCCEED! Come bacl Kacan, as you are the perfect example of what we need.....

[Extended-Phenotype]

i do have a counter argument E-P- there isnt the money
its just not enough of one for you



lets talk about it, explain to me, im aching to understand you
where do you want the money to come from?
do you want AZ to put more money in?
what if he cant afford it?
which players would you have bought/not bought with th ebudget we did have of ten million quid?

“the risk of investing more money to stay up” vs “running things cheaply for the benefit of the club”. We can disagree, but the conversation isn’t pointless, nor is either opinion irrelevant.

what if its not about risk though?
what if simply AZ has given us what he can afford to this summer?
what if he doesnt really have much more to throw away?
what then?
im sure he will put in what he can afford to in january as well, but if that isnt enough what can we do about it.

you can sit there typing we need more all you like, but how is it helping?

Happy to discuss it with you, that’s what a forum is after all. As long as you are happy to acknowledge that you too offer opinions that “can’t change anything” and therefore it’s ignorantly hypocritical to dismiss my opinion on these grounds.

1) You think Brian should stay. So? How does that make him stay? Why bother writing that? Explain please.

2) You think McCleary looks dangerous when he plays. So what? Does that make him dangerous? Why write that? Explain why this is not irrelevant.

3) You think Gorkss has been a calamity. So? Does that make him better? Is that not pointless, then?

4) Please do explain why you escape your own rules.

Ta.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Reading's issue this season is the ability to defend as a team. We are awful at it. We seem quite bright going foward (goalscoring seems not to be too much of an issue) and are also appearing to be difficult for sides to beat, however the overriding issue is our activities as defensive unit which seem to lack consistency and common sense. If this was sorted out then we'd see some results going our way. The problem is that I can't see this being sorted out with the personnel available and if it is not addressed in January (need a right back, a left sided central defender as a minimum) Brian's position would then be at risk.

[melonhead]

i do have a counter argument E-P- there isnt the money
its just not enough of one for you



lets talk about it, explain to me, im aching to understand you
where do you want the money to come from?
do you want AZ to put more money in?
what if he cant afford it?
which players would you have bought/not bought with th ebudget we did have of ten million quid?

“the risk of investing more money to stay up” vs “running things cheaply for the benefit of the club”. We can disagree, but the conversation isn’t pointless, nor is either opinion irrelevant.

what if its not about risk though?
what if simply AZ has given us what he can afford to this summer?
what if he doesnt really have much more to throw away?
what then?
im sure he will put in what he can afford to in january as well, but if that isnt enough what can we do about it.

you can sit there typing we need more all you like, but how is it helping?

Happy to discuss it with you, that’s what a forum is after all. As long as you are happy to acknowledge that you too offer opinions that “can’t change anything” and therefore it’s ignorantly hypocritical to dismiss my opinion on these grounds.

1) You think Brian should stay. So? How does that make him stay? Why bother writing that? Explain please.

2) You think McCleary looks dangerous when he plays. So what? Does that make him dangerous? Why write that? Explain why this is not irrelevant.

3) You think Gorkss has been a calamity. So? Does that make him better? Is that not pointless, then?

4) Please do explain why you escape your own rules.

Ta.

lol- not going to answer any of the questions then?
still continuing to focus on the individual?


those are all very different. those are all things the manager and the club can do something about.hence why those are all things worth debating.

debating what to theoretically do with theoretical money that we dont actually have isnt.thats the difference
imo.

although, you carry on if you like. you know my feelings on the matter. ill just reply with **** every time i think you need to recall what they are

[Lacoste]

^^^^Extended-Phenotype 1 - 0 melonhead ^^^^

[melonhead]

more genius contribution from lacoste
very helpful.



im just putting my point of view to you both, and arguing with yours where i disagree with it, and telling you why i do so, and answering all the points you put to me
not sure why you find that so hard to cope with.or why you cant do the same in reply.

[Extended-Phenotype]

But you aren’t. You are saying it’s valid to have an opinion on one thing but not another, and as far as I can see there is no difference between the subject matter.

How is it different to discussing whether Brian stays or goes? If he’s gonna be booted, you saying he should stay isn’t going to change that any more than me saying we should spend more money changes the amount of money we spend.

It’s not the disagreeing that bothers me, it’s the hypocrisy and cheap manner by which you dismiss opinion.

We are discussing Reading FC. I think we should’ve spent more pre-season. I’m sure there is an argument against that, but calling it “pointless and irrelevant” isn’t one of them.

Not sure what is so difficult to grasp about that.

[Hoop Blah]

I keep reading that we have a predictable style of play, etc, etc, ..... but the one thing that we can do on a regular basis is SCORE Goals, so that is NOT our problem area. Our problem is that we let their goals in! Last year, we had a team spirit, that saw an 11-man defence, when required. A Work ethic that was unparralled in the Championship. That 'Team Ethic' is not working so well this year. Of course the standards are much higher, which is what is expected in the EPL, and there are positions that we are hurting in, as far as our Defence is concerned, but there is not the 'Team' there right now, that is fighting to get back and cover the gaps. When you can have 4 to 5 players LOOKING at a ball bouncing around them, and not one of them moving for it, there is a lack of "THAT'S MINE" mentality, that we had last year. If we get that back, even with the players we have, WE CAN still SUCCEED! Come bacl Kacan, as you are the perfect example of what we need.....

Personally I think we're scoring goals, and cheapish goals if you get what I mean, because we're over committing players going forward to compensate for that predictable and somewhat one dimensional approach.

More importantly perhaps is that we're also giving the ball away too much and too easily that we're then giving the opposition far too many chances to score. That's a direct result of the way we play, as is the fact that we're chasing the ball so much that we're probably suffering from fatigue more than the opposition during the crucial last 15/20 minutes of a game when more goals are scored.

[melonhead]

But you aren’t. You are saying it’s valid to have an opinion on one thing but not another, and as far as I can see there is no difference between the subject matter.

How is it different to discussing whether Brian stays or goes? If he’s gonna be booted, you saying he should stay isn’t going to change that any more than me saying we should spend more money changes the amount of money we spend.

It’s not the disagreeing that bothers me, it’s the hypocrisy and cheap manner by which you dismiss opinion.

We are discussing Reading FC. I think we should’ve spent more pre-season. I’m sure there is an argument against that, but calling it “pointless and irrelevant” isn’t one of them.

Not sure what is so difficult to grasp about that.

its different if you are saying he should go because he didnt pend all the money when he did
and its different in that people are saying theyd rather buy two or three top players than the 5-6 we got with the 10 million budget, but are refusing to say which positions they wouldnt have covered with that money in order to spend more on better players.

the money is what it is, and that determined the transfer activity
so in my opinion, i reckon that makes it wrong and makes no sense to criticise brian in that area.
what he is criticisable over is the tactics he employs, and the people he did buy with th emoney he had.
more than happy to debate thosethings in regard to brian. and i may even agree with you on some of them



ive ansked a string of questions in order to engage in debate with you on those points but you have refused to answer, where i have tried my hardest to answer all of yours, so im clearly not dismissing anyone.


but you continue to play the man, and not the ball, as always.

its enough to make me most upset.it really is

[melonhead]

I keep reading that we have a predictable style of play, etc, etc, ..... but the one thing that we can do on a regular basis is SCORE Goals, so that is NOT our problem area. Our problem is that we let their goals in! Last year, we had a team spirit, that saw an 11-man defence, when required. A Work ethic that was unparralled in the Championship. That 'Team Ethic' is not working so well this year. Of course the standards are much higher, which is what is expected in the EPL, and there are positions that we are hurting in, as far as our Defence is concerned, but there is not the 'Team' there right now, that is fighting to get back and cover the gaps. When you can have 4 to 5 players LOOKING at a ball bouncing around them, and not one of them moving for it, there is a lack of "THAT'S MINE" mentality, that we had last year. If we get that back, even with the players we have, WE CAN still SUCCEED! Come bacl Kacan, as you are the perfect example of what we need.....

Personally I think we're scoring goals, and cheapish goals if you get what I mean, because we're over committing players going forward to compensate for that predictable and somewhat one dimensional approach.

More importantly perhaps is that we're also giving the ball away too much and too easily that we're then giving the opposition far too many chances to score. That's a direct result of the way we play, as is the fact that we're chasing the ball so much that we're probably suffering from fatigue more than the opposition during the crucial last 15/20 minutes of a game when more goals are scored.

now that i can agree with

[bracksroyal10]

Melonhead should apply for one of the media vacancies the club has with the amount of opinions on things. Maybe you can provide opinions combined with Snowball's ever reliable stats

[melonhead]

i am a bot, created by the club, for this very purpose


as is snowball

[Ian Royal]

In a lower league. which can't be emphasised enough.

What relevance does that have then*?

* I'm aware McDermott masterminded our promotion but comparing his sides competitiveness now with Rodgers has nothing to do with that IMO.

Utterly different expectations. Rodgers expected to consolidate mid-table in Championship before a strong promotion push. McDermott expected to compete to keep us in the PL. Rodgers actually took us into a Championship relegation fight. McDermott has us in the PL relegation fight most of us expected, just with far more ineptitude than most of us expected. McDermott has also proved he can achieve good things here, Rodgers didn't. Plus we're getting closer to winning games than under Rodgers and haven't been nearly as humiliated in as many league matches.

Of course McDermott gets more leeway. It's not the same thing in the slightest.