How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

3209 posts
MmmMonsterMunch
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6048
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 12:57

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by MmmMonsterMunch » 27 Nov 2012 23:30

Big Ern To be honest, with all the team spirit in the world, relegation is nailed on with this team.

His signings haven't worked, and only 1 of the 7 is contributing, that is Shorey who was a known quanity. We have to change things with the team drastically, however given that Brian fooked it up so much last time, I doubt he will be given the chance again in the next tranafer window.

If the board have decided that relegation is acceptable, then he should stay to try and get us back uop, however if we have intent on staying in this divison, the Board really have no choice but to replace him. This really is the true test to see how serious Anton is.

It will be a sad day when someone like Brian leaves the club, however we have no room for sympathy here. It is the club I support and not individuals.


Were the transfer dealings really that bad. He tried to cover the areas that needed strengthening on a limited budget.
Guthrie - free transfer. Worth a punt
Pog - No proof obviously but I suspect AZ was to do with this one.
Mariappa - Looks a good buy to me
McCleary - Again looks a decent buy
Shorey - good decision

User avatar
Big Ern
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2987
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 11:50
Location: Sunny, polluted Mexico City

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Big Ern » 27 Nov 2012 23:30

grey_squirrel
Lower West Di Canio ?

The guy has a lot to learn as a manager. Would destroy the structure that Reading have created under Mad's tenure.


That is completely not the issue here mate. Destroy the structure? Right here and now that is exactly what we need.

Though agree Di Canio is Not what we need.



maybe he was referring to our style of play which is outdated to say the least and we will not survive playing the current brand of slightly enhanced non league football.

DOYLERSAROYALER
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1590
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 18:59

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by DOYLERSAROYALER » 27 Nov 2012 23:49

...could do worse than get Di Matteo in....but he's been earmarked for Southampton should the Adkins revival run out of steam..

User avatar
cmonurz
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 12384
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 22:50
Location: Nob nob nob nob nob nob

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by cmonurz » 28 Nov 2012 01:57

So the only summer signing (bar free transfer Shorey) worthy of a start is Mariappa, and that's only by default because McDermott has fallen out with Pearce. Sorry Brian, your time is up.

User avatar
Harpers So Solid Crew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5273
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 08:39
Location: enjoying the money

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Harpers So Solid Crew » 28 Nov 2012 06:40

if we go down the rebuilding will take many reasons. i would expect the club to struggle, rather than bounce back.


Lacoste

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Lacoste » 28 Nov 2012 09:12

Two ball playing midfielders and a different style of play would do wonders for us. It would take the pressure off the back 4 and create chances for our best striker - the Pog.

Anyone who says a change of management is pointless need to have a bit more faith TBH. I wouldn't want Brian in the Champoinship anyway as I dont think that with his style of play he could build a side capable of going up and staying up. His signings tend to be poor and he really does rely on previous managers signings bar perhaps Roberts.

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Hoop Blah » 28 Nov 2012 09:14

cmonurz So the only summer signing (bar free transfer Shorey) worthy of a start is Mariappa, and that's only by default because McDermott has fallen out with Pearce. Sorry Brian, your time is up.


Gunter would've started but he pulled up in training. Not that it makes much difference in the scheme of things because he probably should've been dropped and was always one that would probably stuggle with the step up when we signed him.

Lacoste

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Lacoste » 28 Nov 2012 09:19

Brian now second fave to lose job behind MON.

User avatar
Royal91
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1391
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 19:04

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Royal91 » 28 Nov 2012 09:24

Brian said, "The boys are gutted but we have to keep going. Again the first goal proved crucial "

The first goal proved nothing expect the fact we are not good enough. Is he suggesting that teams who normally score first go onto win??

We score first we lose and if we concede first we lose.

Can someone please explain that quote to me!


User avatar
Alan Partridge
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 7368
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 13:25
Location: In a daft little ground, watching a silly game so fcuk off

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Alan Partridge » 28 Nov 2012 09:42

Not usually one for sack the manager, simply because in my view manager's take too much praise when things go well and too much stick when they don't. Football is 90% about players and 10% about managers. If you've got crap players you won't win anything and only when squads are close does that slightly better manager really make a difference in the vast majority of cases.

there are occasions when managers are really incompetent and that theory gets blown out of the window, it's rare to be honest but sometimes someone finds themself in a job they absolutely can't do. John Barnes for example!

also there comes a time where managers start to make decisions out of desperation/panic but also ones that are almost unexplainable, McDermott is starting to make those now.

What i would worry about with McDermott isn't so much Reading have a crud style of play nor even that they are losing. They were crap to watch last year and now they are in a better league with the same Championship plodders squad, what would concern me is everything he has done this year has been so different to what he and Reading as a club have done over the last 10 years really. It's all been kneejerk, all been squabbles and ridiculos inclusions/non inclusions in the side. I can understand change when things aren't working, you have to do that but there has been almost ridiculous change this season, it's been HNA team selection esque. There is no consistency to his selection, nor regular way that they play. I'd seen a couple of games on TV and Reading have generally looked a team and a threat, last night I don't think they looked either. They are getting worse as well not better.

Whether you rate Federici or not, he's had similar spells in his RFC time where he's been dire, McDermott has always stuck with him. First sign of iffy form, dropped. That's a big decision to leave your 'keeper out especially one that he was so happy with last season, who played every game as Reading won the league.

Pearce player of the season, couple of indifferent games, contract issues maybe, dropped. Now Mariappa and Morrison!!? Who on Earth would have predicted that in August? As it happens Morrison looks a natural as does McCarthy but again it strikes me as a manager taking gambles. Those 2 have worked there have been many more that haven't.

Guthrie dropped and for Jay Tabb. Jay Tabb who has played more games in a row in the PRemier League than he has at Reading for any time in his career when Reading were in a worse league. That makes no sense to me.

The strikers are changed on the weekly. ALF was IN, ALF was out, Hunt and Pog were in, now Pog's out, Roberts is in but Hunt's out. It's all very messy. The wingers too have changed, now HRK who like Tabb was never a regular starter is now playing every game. He like Tabb was barely good enough for the Championship how is he going to be good enough in this division?

This is a case of a manager losing the plot to be honest, it's someone that has got serious issues in this squad, there is obviously something not right, Guthrie and Federici have spoken out, there's all this change and it's got the point where he's not picking his best available team for whatever reasons. That would concern me the most.

it probably does need some fresh eyes with no previous agendas or issues to come in and take a look at it, it's one of those rare cases that although the players as a group definitely aren't good enough, the manager really does have quite a lot of accounability as well.

User avatar
Wimb
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4397
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 09:43
Location: www.thetilehurstend.com

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Wimb » 28 Nov 2012 09:57

Alan Partridge Not usually one for sack the manager, simply because in my view manager's take too much praise when things go well and too much stick when they don't. Football is 90% about players and 10% about managers. If you've got crap players you won't win anything and only when squads are close does that slightly better manager really make a difference in the vast majority of cases.

there are occasions when managers are really incompetent and that theory gets blown out of the window, it's rare to be honest but sometimes someone finds themself in a job they absolutely can't do. John Barnes for example!

also there comes a time where managers start to make decisions out of desperation/panic but also ones that are almost unexplainable, McDermott is starting to make those now.

What i would worry about with McDermott isn't so much Reading have a crud style of play nor even that they are losing. They were crap to watch last year and now they are in a better league with the same Championship plodders squad, what would concern me is everything he has done this year has been so different to what he and Reading as a club have done over the last 10 years really. It's all been kneejerk, all been squabbles and ridiculos inclusions/non inclusions in the side. I can understand change when things aren't working, you have to do that but there has been almost ridiculous change this season, it's been HNA team selection esque. There is no consistency to his selection, nor regular way that they play. I'd seen a couple of games on TV and Reading have generally looked a team and a threat, last night I don't think they looked either. They are getting worse as well not better.

Whether you rate Federici or not, he's had similar spells in his RFC time where he's been dire, McDermott has always stuck with him. First sign of iffy form, dropped. That's a big decision to leave your 'keeper out especially one that he was so happy with last season, who played every game as Reading won the league.

Pearce player of the season, couple of indifferent games, contract issues maybe, dropped. Now Mariappa and Morrison!!? Who on Earth would have predicted that in August? As it happens Morrison looks a natural as does McCarthy but again it strikes me as a manager taking gambles. Those 2 have worked there have been many more that haven't.

Guthrie dropped and for Jay Tabb. Jay Tabb who has played more games in a row in the PRemier League than he has at Reading for any time in his career when Reading were in a worse league. That makes no sense to me.

The strikers are changed on the weekly. ALF was IN, ALF was out, Hunt and Pog were in, now Pog's out, Roberts is in but Hunt's out. It's all very messy. The wingers too have changed, now HRK who like Tabb was never a regular starter is now playing every game. He like Tabb was barely good enough for the Championship how is he going to be good enough in this division?

This is a case of a manager losing the plot to be honest, it's someone that has got serious issues in this squad, there is obviously something not right, Guthrie and Federici have spoken out, there's all this change and it's got the point where he's not picking his best available team for whatever reasons. That would concern me the most.

it probably does need some fresh eyes with no previous agendas or issues to come in and take a look at it, it's one of those rare cases that although the players as a group definitely aren't good enough, the manager really does have quite a lot of accounability as well.


Awesome post, just awesome.

User avatar
Avon Royal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4652
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 10:54
Location: Diggs. Sideline. Touchdown. Unbelievable.

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Avon Royal » 28 Nov 2012 10:01

Lacoste Brian now second fave to lose job behind MON.


That makes a lot of sense.

O'neil resigns, we pay off Brian, we hire O'neil.

andrew1957
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4364
Joined: 29 Sep 2006 14:40
Location: Reading

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by andrew1957 » 28 Nov 2012 10:07

Cannot disagree with much of what you say AP. Although I will support Brian through thick and thin for the fantastic job he has done at RFC and would want him to stay even if we go down - I do have an uneasy feeling that something is not right in the camp.

The Pearce situation is particularly baffling - although as I said elsewhere ironically it might turn out to be the making of Morrison - who looks top class.

I guess the real question is "is Brian picking the team?" or is pressure being brought to bear to exclude the likes of Pearce and Guthrie (is he injured or not?). The truth is we just don't know but I have to say that we don't seem to have always played our "best" available team this season which is odd.

The main fault of the summer was not strengthening further at CM. We were crying out for another CM in case of injury and I think this is one area where we need 5 players. I know the fifth is Gunnar, but it looks like Brian has no intention of starting him at this level. Even if we don't strengthen elsewhere I will be amazed if we don't add two CMs to the squad in January.

The good news is that this squad is much better now than the Championship winning squad of last season (and I cannot see many players leaving if we go down as no one will want them) and we also have a lot of promising players coming through the Academy at the moment so even if we do go down I see a brighter future ahead and another promotion in May 2014.


User avatar
Avon Royal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4652
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 10:54
Location: Diggs. Sideline. Touchdown. Unbelievable.

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Avon Royal » 28 Nov 2012 10:11

Ap's post is very good - but too harsh on Tabb. Personally I think that JT is one of the few players that has looked at home in the prem, I think it suits his game more than the Championship.

royal_cornwall
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 09:31

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by royal_cornwall » 28 Nov 2012 10:13

Avon Royal
Lacoste Brian now second fave to lose job behind MON.


That makes a lot of sense.

O'neil resigns, we pay off Brian, we hire O'neil.




Yes please.

bracksroyal10
Member
Posts: 608
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:14
Location: Bracknell

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by bracksroyal10 » 28 Nov 2012 10:22

Mcd's only hope if results continue like this is if Anton pulls out a nice cheque for January. The majority of this squad they try, but the reality is a lot of them are hopeless at this level. We won't get 5 new players in but I think this is what is required if we are to stand a chance. At least two centre midfields are needed if we are not planning on using Guthrie as our cover is hopeless and adds nothing to the team.

Even so I am still flabbergasted as to why on earth Roberts was taken off and if that wasn't bad enough why on earth we are playing Hunt and Le Fondre together its a joke Pog should of came on he would of changed the game given enough time.

Fed up of people saying "the results will come" "we are almost there" the reality is we need the results now why Mcdermott keeps up this stance in his interviews is beyond me. Maybe the players need to know that what they are producing is not good enough don't understand how we can defend some of the performances I don't care who you are Yeovil Town wouldn't of thrown a 4 goal lead against Arsenal away how can you defend gifting away leads like that.

This club has shown in the FA Cup it can compete with the top PL teams and we've done it quite consistently over the years so why we can't now is beyond me and the majority of the squad that have played in those previous ties are still here now. Something needs to change whether it be playing staff or the manager because quite clearly what we are seeing is not good enough and it may seem harsh but if we want to stay up which AZ wants and I certainly do, then the standard has got to get better and maybe that needed to start with learning our PL lesson from last time when we didn't spend enough in our second year.

Clearly we haven't learned and even players we bring in like Guthrie and Pog aren't playing despite the money we are giving them each week. In my eyes we may as well of brought Rasiak and John Oster back because its turning into that much of a joke at the minute. We are in the PL we need to do all we can to stay there and I don't think enough has been done so far as harsh as it sounds. Majority of the players need a kick up the backside and need to realize that we need results now its not progression building up to 3 points over a 5 game period that counts for nothing.

Don't want us having to go to Utd, City and playing Chelsea Arsenal needing to go there to get points to stay up we need to start beating teams around us. I really feel we are on the verge of going into panic mode by the time we have played the next 5 games.

Lacoste

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Lacoste » 28 Nov 2012 10:29

McDermott reflects on narrow defeat

Brian McDermott was left to rue another tight defeat as his team went down 1-0 away to Aston Villa.


Christian Benteke's late header was the difference between the two sides; it was a game of fine margins but the Royals were not able to swing the details in their favour. They had chances to get something from the game - especially with a second half header from Adam Le Fondre - but it was not to be.


Brian said, "The boys are gutted but we have to keep going. Again the first goal proved crucial and they got it, it's frustrating to lose another one late on.


"I thought the shape was much better than on Saturday, I didn't think we were going to concede but then we let in a late goal. Benteke is a decent player, they spent £7million on him but I thought Morrison and Mariappa handled him really well. Morrison looks like a good prospect, he's only 21 and with Mariappa - an international - the combination was fine.


"I said to the players we need to create more in the final third, our wide players need to get in more instead of crossing from deep, it's a fair point to mention the crosses. I see quality day in and day out on the training ground but it didn't happen tonight. Anything away from home in the Premier League is difficult but we just keep going.


"Now we have to stick together, it's really important that we do that as a group. It's important the fans stick with us and try to get us over the line, to get a result from somewhere, hopefully on Saturday. We want some momentum having lost the last couple. We'd beaten Everton which was a great day but the last two haven't been great.


"In the first half I thought it looked like we were going to go on and win, we had opportunities before the break but we didn't make the goalkeeper work. Then in the second half with the header as well.


"Now you find out a lot about your players and staff about how you bounce back. Over the years we've done that really well. Now it's Manchester United and for me it doesn't get any better. We're still in a great situation, we're in the Barclays Premier League and fighting to stay in there for next season. If we keep going we'll get our rewards."

User avatar
Vision
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5123
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 20:53

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Vision » 28 Nov 2012 10:38

I'm not one for knee jerkism but alarm bells are certainly ringing after last night.

Last night was a game between two sides that was only ever going to be decided by the team that finally took advantage of the other's ineptitude at defending set pieces. the sort of game that should suit us given our comparitive resources in this league yet we still lost.

There's no single blueprint for success though. If there was then everyone would try to follow it.
Passing game with creative midfielders (QPR?),
Spend big (Southampton?),
Change manager/invest in youth (Villa?),
Buy proven Premiership players (Sunderland?)

All examples and suggestions on here of how we should go about things yet all those teams are struggling. It really isn't as straightforward as some on here seem to think

My worry is that after some high scoring draws/defeats we appear to have gone into our shells again. Unlike many on here the games against Fulham,Swansea Arsenal (albeit in the cup) and even the Wigan defeat didn't concern me too much. We've a better a chance if we give it a go but as AP has said earlier, on last night's evidence we appear to have changed tack to the style we served up against WBA,Liverpool and Norwich where we're simply trying to stifle the opposition and hope to nick something.

McD's use of that phrase ("i thought we would nick it") last night is highly concerning. Last night was a game against a team that were there for the taking and we never really put them under enough pressure to do so. If McD's level of confidence in this side that he's put together is based solely on the "hoping to nick something" then we are set for a bleak few months.

That all being said. Regardless of manager I fully believed we'd be in a relegation scrap this season anyway and I'm surpised that many on here seem so shocked by that realisation.

I know loyalty is an unfashionable word in modern football but IMHo McD has earned the right to be given time time to turn it around. However this only applies if he's willing to give it a good go and go with a fight. Last night was a pathetic whimper of a display with absolutely no discernable strategy other than the desire not to be embarrassed and hope to nick something. If that's going to be the MO for the rest of the campaign then he might as well go now because that isn't the Brian McDermott or Reading team that has won so many games in the last 2 and a half years.

royal_cornwall
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 09:31

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by royal_cornwall » 28 Nov 2012 10:39

andrew1957 Cannot disagree with much of what you say AP. Although I will support Brian through thick and thin for the fantastic job he has done at RFC and would want him to stay even if we go down - I do have an uneasy feeling that something is not right in the camp.

The Pearce situation is particularly baffling - although as I said elsewhere ironically it might turn out to be the making of Morrison - who looks top class.

I guess the real question is "is Brian picking the team?" or is pressure being brought to bear to exclude the likes of Pearce and Guthrie (is he injured or not?). The truth is we just don't know but I have to say that we don't seem to have always played our "best" available team this season which is odd.

The main fault of the summer was not strengthening further at CM. We were crying out for another CM in case of injury and I think this is one area where we need 5 players. I know the fifth is Gunnar, but it looks like Brian has no intention of starting him at this level. Even if we don't strengthen elsewhere I will be amazed if we don't add two CMs to the squad in January.

The good news is that this squad is much better now than the Championship winning squad of last season (and I cannot see many players leaving if we go down as no one will want them) and we also have a lot of promising players coming through the Academy at the moment so even if we do go down I see a brighter future ahead and another promotion in May 2014.



you say "I do have an uneasy feeling that something is not right in the camp"
you say " but I have to say that we don't seem to have always played our "best" available team this season which is odd"
you say "The Pearce situation is particularly baffling"
you say "The main fault of the summer was not strengthening further at CM. We were crying out for another CM in case of injury and I think this is one area where we need 5 players"
But firstly you say "I will support Brian through thick and thin for the fantastic job he has done at RFC and would want him to stay even if we go down"

I could add, as would many others could to the list of errors made before the start of the season and during, but surely you can see that Brian doesn't have what it takes to keep us at this level. Continuing to play players who are out of their depth/out of form. with an outdated style of play which is so predicteable that most people on here would know how to set up a game plan to counteract it.
Sorry, i like Brian but i Love Reading FC. He must go now so The Board could at least say they tried something to save the season.

Bowman's Quiver
Member
Posts: 310
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 23:02
Location: Henpecked

Re: How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

by Bowman's Quiver » 28 Nov 2012 10:42

Vision I'm not one for knee jerkism but alarm bells are certainly ringing after last night.

Last night was a game between two sides that was only ever going to be decided by the team that finally took advantage of the other's ineptitude at defending set pieces. the sort of game that should suit us given our comparitive resources in this league yet we still lost.

There's no single blueprint for success though. If there was then everyone would try to follow it.
Passing game with creative midfielders (QPR?),
Spend big (Southampton?),
Change manager/invest in youth (Villa?),
Buy proven Premiership players (Sunderland?)

All examples and suggestions on here of how we should go about things yet all those teams are struggling. It really isn't as straightforward as some on here seem to think

My worry is that after some high scoring draws/defeats we appear to have gone into our shells again. Unlike many on here the games against Fulham,Swansea Arsenal (albeit in the cup) and even the Wigan defeat didn't concern me too much. We've a better a chance if we give it a go but as AP has said earlier, on last night's evidence we appear to have changed tack to the style we served up against WBA,Liverpool and Norwich where we're simply trying to stifle the opposition and hope to nick something.

McD's use of that phrase ("i thought we would nick it") last night is highly concerning. Last night was a game against a team that were there for the taking and we never really put them under enough pressure to do so. If McD's level of confidence in this side that he's put together is based solely on the "hoping to nick something" then we are set for a bleak few months.

That all being said. Regardless of manager I fully believed we'd be in a relegation scrap this season anyway and I'm surpised that many on here seem so shocked by that realisation.

I know loyalty is an unfashionable word in modern football but IMHo McD has earned the right to be given time time to turn it around. However this only applies if he's willing to give it a good go and go with a fight. Last night was a pathetic whimper of a display with absolutely no discernable strategy other than the desire not to be embarrassed and hope to nick something. If that's going to be the MO for the rest of the campaign then he might as well go now because that isn't the Brian McDermott or Reading team that has won so many games in the last 2 and a half years.


Finally, some sanity!

3209 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 245 guests

It is currently 06 Nov 2024 06:38