How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

[Vic_Flange]

Brian now second fave to lose job behind MON.

That makes a lot of sense.

O'neil resigns, we pay off Brian, we hire O'neil.

Yes please.

Me too - but lets face it, regardless of anyones view on McD getting the boot or staying - it wont happen coz we wont do the former for a little while yet.

[winchester_royal]

I'm not one for knee jerkism but alarm bells are certainly ringing after last night.

Last night was a game between two sides that was only ever going to be decided by the team that finally took advantage of the other's ineptitude at defending set pieces. the sort of game that should suit us given our comparitive resources in this league yet we still lost.

There's no single blueprint for success though. If there was then everyone would try to follow it.
Passing game with creative midfielders (QPR?),
Spend big (Southampton?),
Change manager/invest in youth (Villa?),
Buy proven Premiership players (Sunderland?)

All examples and suggestions on here of how we should go about things yet all those teams are struggling. It really isn't as straightforward as some on here seem to think

My worry is that after some high scoring draws/defeats we appear to have gone into our shells again. Unlike many on here the games against Fulham,Swansea Arsenal (albeit in the cup) and even the Wigan defeat didn't concern me too much. We've a better a chance if we give it a go but as AP has said earlier, on last night's evidence we appear to have changed tack to the style we served up against WBA,Liverpool and Norwich where we're simply trying to stifle the opposition and hope to nick something.

McD's use of that phrase ("i thought we would nick it") last night is highly concerning. Last night was a game against a team that were there for the taking and we never really put them under enough pressure to do so. If McD's level of confidence in this side that he's put together is based solely on the "hoping to nick something" then we are set for a bleak few months.

That all being said. Regardless of manager I fully believed we'd be in a relegation scrap this season anyway and I'm surpised that many on here seem so shocked by that realisation.

I know loyalty is an unfashionable word in modern football but IMHo McD has earned the right to be given time time to turn it around. However this only applies if he's willing to give it a good go and go with a fight. Last night was a pathetic whimper of a display with absolutely no discernable strategy other than the desire not to be embarrassed and hope to nick something. If that's going to be the MO for the rest of the campaign then he might as well go now because that isn't the Brian McDermott or Reading team that has won so many games in the last 2 and a half years.

'Greed, and that's what made last night so disappointing, it just felt like we were bending over and pulling our knickers down.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Trouble is, it’s not just a case of ‘doing his best with what he has’. McDermott is consistently making decisions which are having a direct impact on Reading’s success.

His poor man management of Feds, Guthrie, Pearce and Pog. His insistence in sticking to the same substandard tactics. His ridiculous loyalty to certain players and confusing indifference to others. His woeful trading in the summer. His bewildering substitutions.

I’m sorry, but we KNOW we have the players (and usually the spirit) to compete – there have been spells this season where we showed genuine ability; apply the quality we have shown to every game and we’d be looking at a different table.

It’s the managers job to get the best out of players, to get them to consistently perform and to bond them together as a team. McD has failed in all three, most surprisingly the latter.

People seem to think we can tread water until the lifeboat of January floats into view, I think we’ll have drowned before then if something doesn’t change - and that’s either Brian changing his approach or Reading changing their manager.

[Barry the bird boggler]

New unbelievable low last night, substituting Roberts - our one and only goal threat - for Hunt as he felt Hunt could win a few headers. Doesn't that just say it all - guess wht he was expecting Reading to do for the last 10 minutes then.

The squad is not good enough and when you add management decisions like the above into the mix we might as well all go home now.

[Alan Partridge]

Ap's post is very good - but too harsh on Tabb. Personally I think that JT is one of the few players that has looked at home in the prem, I think it suits his game more than the Championship.

To be fair I think Tabb would be fairly effective in a 5 man midfield where he can just do defensive work, IF he was surrounded by 2 skilled footballers. The problem is he's in a 2, the other one is a slower more immobile version of him and both of them can't pass the ball. When it's a game like last night when you are crying out for your midfield to get hold of the ball keep possesion and maybe create something, it's all the things that are basic requirements for central midfield players at Premiership level and it's things neither of them can do!!

Said it on the captain thread, Leigertwood, McAnuff, Gorkss, Tabb, Hunt and a few others are all late 20's/ early 30's, if they were good players they'd have played in the PRemier League for an extended period throughout their early to mid 20's. The fact that they haven't means that during their very best years they were deemed not good enough, they've all been let go when their teams have got that far. All of those are now starting regularly. That's a really key issue/problem.

[Royal Rother]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the "try to nick something" phrase - it's just one of those football cliches that gets trotted out after a tight game.

That said, we really are a poor PL outfit and relegation is a virtual certainty of that I have no doubt.

That also said, the game really could have gone either way and we could count ourselves a trifle unfortunate to lose. Villa, who had home advantage, looked nearly as poor as us.

Mildly positive - Mariappa and Morrison.

Big negative, midfield. The lack of quality, vision and skill is damn near tear-inducing.

I'm certainly not going to watch it again to check, but Shorey was the only player who passed the ball into space for someone to run onto. Everything else was to feet or just a lump into space (which doesn't qualify as a pass) for someone to run after.

Dire, dire stuff.

The thing is though, BM can only do so much with what he's got. The talent just isn't there to get the team out of trouble.

I am not unhappy with where we are for the money that's been spent, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay to watch what this squad serves up. Paying £50 to watch crap football in a winning cause is just about ok, but paying £50 to watch crap football in a relegation bound campaign is not.

[Alan Partridge]

But doesn't that just sum everything up that Shorey who both WBA and Villa didn't think was up to it, is by far Reading's best player and only one from an attacking/footballing persepctive who looks up to the required standard.

i have never seen a Premier League team as a collective so bad in possesion of the ball as Reading were last night.

[super darren caskey]

I think the axe will fall soon.I cant see AZ being happy that we are paying loads of money on Pog & Guthrie for them just not to play.I know Pog has been a bit shit but i thought he might have got a look in last night.I was expecting him to come on for Alf with Roberts staying on.Brian decided to bung Noel on instead.If Guthrie is fit he needs to be playing.While he hasnt been that great so far he is definatley a good player and could pull a few stings in midfield.Ledge needs to be dropped.Its painful to watch him play at the moment

[Alan Partridge]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the "try to nick something" phrase - it's just one of those football cliches that gets trotted out after a tight game.

That said, we really are a poor PL outfit and relegation is a virtual certainty of that I have no doubt.

That also said, the game really could have gone either way and we could count ourselves a trifle unfortunate to lose. Villa, who had home advantage, looked nearly as poor as us.

Mildly positive - Mariappa and Morrison.

Big negative, midfield. The lack of quality, vision and skill is damn near tear-inducing.

I'm certainly not going to watch it again to check, but Shorey was the only player who passed the ball into space for someone to run onto. Everything else was to feet or just a lump into space (which doesn't qualify as a pass) for someone to run after.

Dire, dire stuff.

The thing is though, BM can only do so much with what he's got. The talent just isn't there to get the team out of trouble.

I am not unhappy with where we are for the money that's been spent, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay to watch what this squad serves up. Paying £50 to watch crap football in a winning cause is just about ok, but paying £50 to watch crap football in a relegation bound campaign is not.

And that's why Schards/floyd and whoever else who have a good moan at what they've seen never mind paying for travel and everything elsehave every right too.

[Snowball]

I really think a big chunk of the problem now is confidence.

Last season we'd've won games like that 1-0 or 2-0, we'd not have lost at Wigan

Had we got the draw at Wigan I feel sure we'd've got something last night, probably won it.

IMO we were the better side in the first half and Cummings/McAnuff did well.


It's easy to say we lack quality and should be bottom etc etc, but for all our faults,
somehow, after 13 games we have a GD of just -7 and -4 of that was in two games, Chelsea and Spurs

To have a negative GD of 3 goals over 11 games doesn't suggest a side that is hopelessly out of its depth

ATM, sure, I'd expect us to finish bottom but there are 5 clubs with inferior GDs and one club just a goal better.

Long term GD is a very good indicator of level of quality.

We need a break, or one player to hit a purple patch, a "stupid" win like beating Utd or Arsenal, but then
to follow that win with a second.

ATM you'd have to predict a bad loss at home to Man U and then a two-goal reverse at Southampton.

If that happens we are finished IMO, not just on points, the gap, but morale, confidence etc


But treat Man Utd as a Cup Final, get a result, then avoid defeat at Southampton and maybe we can get to January
with a half-decent chance, strengthen midfield and start playing The Great Escape on repeat.



Every time we lose (almost always by a single goal!) we trot out that 6-7-8 of our players
are "crap" and that we'll struggle to be mid-table in the championship

If so, why aren't we shipping 4-0's and 5-0s on a regular basis? We hardly park the bus.

This IS fixable, but we only have 3 games, I'd say, to stop the rot.

[Vision]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the "try to nick something" phrase - it's just one of those football cliches that gets trotted out after a tight game.

That said, we really are a poor PL outfit and relegation is a virtual certainty of that I have no doubt.

That also said, the game really could have gone either way and we could count ourselves a trifle unfortunate to lose. Villa, who had home advantage, looked nearly as poor as us.

Mildly positive - Mariappa and Morrison.

Big negative, midfield. The lack of quality, vision and skill is damn near tear-inducing.

I'm certainly not going to watch it again to check, but Shorey was the only player who passed the ball into space for someone to run onto. Everything else was to feet or just a lump into space (which doesn't qualify as a pass) for someone to run after.

Dire, dire stuff.

The thing is though, BM can only do so much with what he's got. The talent just isn't there to get the team out of trouble.

I am not unhappy with where we are for the money that's been spent, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay to watch what this squad serves up. Paying £50 to watch crap football in a winning cause is just about ok, but paying £50 to watch crap football in a relegation bound campaign is not.

McD uses the phrase a lot. Last night it wasn't said as trotted out cliche but more as a tactical statement and the performance indicated the same.

Villa were the worst team we've played this season. If we're just going to settle for being a trifle unfortunate to lose against a side playing as poorly as them then we may as well wave the white flag now.

People talk about "crap football" but what they usually mean is football that isn't aestheically pleasing to them. McD's Reading team of the last couple of years has not played crap football. It may not be in the style that some (myself included) would like but it certainly wasn't crap.

Last night however was completely spineless and clueless crap and as much as it pains me to say it, McD is mainly to blame for it.

One slight silver lining though as you say, once he settled down I thought Mariappa looked good alongside Morrison.

[Barry the bird boggler]

But doesn't that just sum everything up that Shorey who both WBA and Villa didn't think was up to it, is by far Reading's best player and only one from an attacking/footballing persepctive who looks up to the required standard.

i have never seen a Premier League team as a collective so bad in possesion of the ball as Reading were last night.

Most of us said last season that the squad just was not good enough for much more than a play off spot at best yet some ineptitude from other teams and a surge of belief thanks to the acquisition of Jason Roberts pushed us over the finishing line.

Now we're in the PL, nothing has changed whatsover, we still have a squad that would be good for Div 2 play off spot and a management team who seem to think the difference between that and being safe in the PL can be made up for by belief, workrate and confidence.

Well yes that can make a difference but you have to have the relevant level of technical ability underlying it all and, frankly, the only players we have that I see as being PL standard are Roberts, Shorey, Morrison, McCarthy and Pearce (plus probably Harte, Pogrebnyak and Guthrie, should they ever be given consistent game time).

[melonhead]

we are in big trouble, and i am unable to assess what kind of man AZ is in regards to firing managers.
if hes going to do it then it has to be after the next three games imo.


personally speaking i wouldnt. and id happily keep brian for the rest of the season, clinging to the slim hope of brians usual post xmas miracle and the transfer window.
cant see any other manager who could keep this squad up.(perhaps curbs-who would fit the bill, though hes been out of the game a long time, and i doubt hed come to a team in such a crisis, and im not sure he could do more than is being done)
and if we do go down theres no other manager id want to take us through the next season in the championship than brian.

with the team we had when we came up and the money given in the summer i couldnt really see any other outcome than an extended relegation scrap, and thats what weve got.
its painful, and disappointing, and downright depressing.but it is what it is.

Brian has made mistakes in selection and tactics, but when you are casting around for a solution, and the tools you have at your disposal lack the quaity required, thats is bound to happen.
the main problem is the new transfers-I maintain that when you have 5 positions to fill, and ten million to spend on fees and wages you are always going to struggle at this level, for me: Shorey has been superb, Mcleary has done well, Marriappa did ok then was unlucky with injury, and gunter has looked nothing more than cover/competition at more or less the same level as cummings.

the two big problems therefore are pog and guthrie. our two biggest signings, who cost alot of money one way or another, and havent done the job, due to a combination of our tactics,their attitude, and their inability to adapt their games to our system.
and this is where brian has to take his share of the blame.

sacking him will achieve nothing though imo. the only way to get out of it is spending big on 2 quality additions, and i dont think we have the resources to do so, and im not sure there are a huge ammount of players out there of the necessary quality, who would come to us.

[Archie's penalty]

If the board have decided that relegation is acceptable, then he should stay to try and get us back uop, however if we have intent on staying in this divison, the Board really have no choice but to replace him. This really is the true test to see how serious Anton is.

It will be a sad day when someone like Brian leaves the club, however we have no room for sympathy here. It is the club I support and not individuals.

This ^^^^^

[Avon Royal]

its painful, and disappointing, and downright depressing.but it is what it is.

It's the Reading Way!

[Archie's penalty]

it probably does need some fresh eyes with no previous agendas or issues to come in and take a look at it, it's one of those rare cases that although the players as a group definitely aren't good enough, the manager really does have quite a lot of accounability as well.

Awesome post, just awesome.

Yep, great post.

[Divvy]

Ap's post is very good - but too harsh on Tabb. Personally I think that JT is one of the few players that has looked at home in the prem, I think it suits his game more than the Championship.

He was very poor last night and almost gave the ball away as much as Leigertwood, who desperately needs dropping!

[Archie's penalty]

Some great posts from AP, Vision and others.

I think last night was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I really love Brian but I think we need to replace him (if we can find someone who fits the bill) so we're in a position to make some signings in January.

It's sad but I think it's necessary. He'll always be remembered here but if we are to stay up we can't keep going the way we are doing.

[Divvy]

Some great posts from AP, Vision and others.

I think last night was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I really love Brian but I think we need to replace him (if we can find someone who fits the bill) so we're in a position to make some signings in January.

It's sad but I think it's necessary. He'll always be remembered here but if we are to stay up we can't keep going the way we are doing.

A massive agreed.

[Royal Rother]

I'm not sure there's much point in making signings in January. Too much of a gamble, with limited chance of success. Not the RFC way. And it's one of the things that makes us different to most clubs, which is good, yes?

We have a very good Championship squad - integrating 2 or 3 of the excellent youngsters into the team next year with the aim of really pushing for promotion the following season would be a sensible, pragmatic plan. The RFC way.