Man Utd - back from the game

[Plymouth_Royal]

watched it at the pub.

Exciting game!

Feds 5 - rubbish. Should have done better with Anderson's goal and nearly got punished when dallying on a back pass. Had the audacity to blame his defender too. Drop him now please!

Cummings 6 - I didn't think he was as bad as a lot of you have made out. He did ok against some of the best players in the country.

Morrison 7 - good goal, solid, confident.

Mariappa 6 - did ok but would prefer Pearce.

Shorey 7 - Great deliveries in to the box. Solid, composed and never troubled.

HRK 9 - Always been a fan of this guy. He was destined for big things as a youngster but never looked the same after he broke his leg. Today he showed everyone what he is capable of. I just wish he had the confidence to do this all the time!! great skills, crosses and tracking back. Perfect performance from a winger

Ledge 5 - shite. Everyone just walked through him, even our own players!!

Tabb 6 - I don't agree with a lot of the people saying he played well. Stupid pen to give away and just ran around like a headless chicken. Can't fault his work rate but quality wise he is not good enough.

McAnuff 8 - Great performance and gave Rafeal a torrid time on the wing. Led by example and caused a lot of trouble on the wing.

Le Fondre 6 - played ok. Took his goal well

Roberts 5 - Awful touch. Poor crossing. When a pass does come off it looks accidental.

Subs - not much to say.

Overall. good effort from the boys but we are destined for relegation in my opinion. McD is doing the best he can with what we have. Ok, he has made some mistakes along the way as well. If we go down I think we will have to adapt our play to a more passing style as our way does not work. It was proven before and it is a shame that a few years on we still have not learned, but what can you do. Thought our fans were brilliant on such a cold night!!!

[Mr.T10]

watched it at the pub.

Exciting game!

Feds 5 - rubbish. Should have done better with Anderson's goal and nearly got punished when dallying on a back pass. Had the audacity to blame his defender too. Drop him now please!

Cummings 6 - I didn't think he was as bad as a lot of you have made out. He did ok against some of the best players in the country.

Morrison 7 - good goal, solid, confident.

Mariappa 6 - did ok but would prefer Pearce.

Shorey 7 - Great deliveries in to the box. Solid, composed and never troubled.

HRK 9 - Always been a fan of this guy. He was destined for big things as a youngster but never looked the same after he broke his leg. Today he showed everyone what he is capable of. I just wish he had the confidence to do this all the time!! great skills, crosses and tracking back. Perfect performance from a winger

Ledge 5 - shite. Everyone just walked through him, even our own players!!

Tabb 6 - I don't agree with a lot of the people saying he played well. Stupid pen to give away and just ran around like a headless chicken. Can't fault his work rate but quality wise he is not good enough.

McAnuff 8 - Great performance and gave Rafeal a torrid time on the wing. Led by example and caused a lot of trouble on the wing.

Le Fondre 6 - played ok. Took his goal well

Roberts 5 - Awful touch. Poor crossing. When a pass does come off it looks accidental.

Subs - not much to say.

Overall. good effort from the boys but we are destined for relegation in my opinion. McD is doing the best he can with what we have. Ok, he has made some mistakes along the way as well. If we go down I think we will have to adapt our play to a more passing style as our way does not work. It was proven before and it is a shame that a few years on we still have not learned, but what can you do. Thought our fans were brilliant on such a cold night!!!

+1. We are missing a SOLID CM who will keep the ball and tackle; We could play Ledge in this role for the mean time but in January by a better CM. I hope McDermott changes our middle two because it is quite clear it is not working with Tabb and Ledge. Guthrie in!

[peterroyal76]

we go down* I'll be happy with Mcdermott and the squad for 2 reasons:

1) Standing in the away end at Stamford Bridge being 2:1 up, giving it large to the home fans in their own place.
2) Pretty much silencing the (always excellent) Man Utd away support in the brief moments after we went 3:2 up

I have completely the opposite attitude to you (not picking a fight; we're all different). I take absolutely no pleasure from losing, from throwing away promising positions, from shipping tonnes of goals. Chelsea and Man Utd both walked off with 3 goals and 4 points and that is that.

Last night we let in four goals at home in half an hour. I don't buy all this "proud of the boys" nonsense, that just screams relegation to me. Last time we went down we lost games 7-4 and 6-4. This season we're having 3-3 draws, 3-4 defeats, and indeed a 5-7 defeat. That suggests there's something seriously wrong with the set-up of the team as staying tight at the back should be the first priority of any football side.

Of course Utd were a shambles at the back in the first half but Ferguson played his hand, told them to lock the game down, and that's exactly what they did. We played pretty well in the second half as they sat back, but who honestly thought we'd equalise?

I very much take a long term view of football and have no wish to see Brian leave (as he says, winning the title didn't make him an amazing manager and only winning one game this season doesn't suddenly make him a bad one). It's the nature of football fans to demand instant success and if that's not happening then changing the manager seems to be the only thing they can think of to rectify it. I say keep him, but buckle up for a season full of beatings.

I'm with Maguire on this one, for me a loss is a loss. Yes we played well at times, but why haven't we played to that level in other games? Yes we scored goals, but we lost.....again, so for me their is nothing to celebrate.

[Victor Meldrew]

Broadly in agreement with Maguire but in football the manager is usually the fall guy and I can see Brian being dispensed with if we don't get a few more points before Christmas-I can remember Maurice Evans getting the sack when IIRC we were third in the league,such is football.
One thing I didn't like last night was our players looking to exchange shirts-that's what non-league players do after an FA Cup game.
Maybe there is something a bit deeper there in that the players feel that they are not as good as some players they are up against each week and have an inferiority complex about being on the same pitch.

[Maguire]

Broadly in agreement with Maguire but in football the manager is usually the fall guy and I can see Brian being dispensed with if we don't get a few more points before Christmas-I can remember Maurice Evans getting the sack when IIRC we were third in the league,such is football

I don't disagree Vic.

[PremAddict]

Positives:

HRK. Always thought he had the moments that indicated he could be better. Today he showed it for much longer.
Guthrie was on the bench. I really hope that is a sign of him getting closer to starting as we really need creativity in midfield. For Pog to be good, we need someone better in midfield.
Morrison - can't wait to see what a Pearce/Morrison combo might look like. Move Mariappa to RB.
Shorey - another decent game and a couple of dead-on deliveries from the corner.
Tabb - He's changing my mind on his abilities (despite the horrible penalty).

Negatives:

Feds - Time for Taylor? This guy seems to be a headcase.
Pog - Useless unless we get someone better in CM.
Cummings - Teams have found the side to go after and something must be done.

Overall a completely entertaining game.

[loyalroyaldaz]

My two-penneth worth:

Fortunate enough to attend (I don't get to so many games these days) I was able to enjoy the sense of time-lapsed perspective such infrequent viewing of my beloved club can sometimes bring.

From a football supporter's perspective there is much right about Reading Football Club in many of its various forms that is good. Not just good, but the antithesis of the modern game with all its vile excesses.

I thought against United we showed a great deal of what is 'good' about our club. Yes, there is no doubt that this team in particular is lacking in certain areas. But it also possesses exactly what McDermott has espoused time and time again. Team work, team ethic, not a little confidence and enthusiasm, skill, and a sense of togetherness that simply would negate a battling performance like last night's if those elements were not in place. The imperfections are there to see: a midfield that can be bypassed quite quickly and easily when its members switch off or lose position, a defence that at times does function, but when it does not, exposes itself for its technical frailties at a level of football where you won't get away with a lapse or three during a game against players who are used to knowing how to open up a back four with quite a few tricks and shimmies. Compared to the game against Aston Villa on Tuesday night (that to me looked like two parks teams who'd decided to have a game after a deep session on some Buckfast and a bong), Reading versus United was far more enjoyable fare.

I don't agree with some of the highly personal abuse that some players get on this forum from supporters who see their own vicarious desires thwarted simply because 'their' team isn't doing so well. Nor do I like the modern era's propensity for switching managers like there is no tomorrow or its introductory smell as the smoke burns on the embers of the 'so and so out!' camp fire. McDermott, a hero last year (and prior to that in our Wembley defeat season) and often hailed as a modern day 'modesto' genius, is now seen in some short-sighted eyes as having had his day and approaching his time to go. Be careful what you wish for, knee-jerkers, this man has this club in his own interests, he believes in it, himself, and the players he chooses and selects. He sees the club as a greater entity and buys into the 'Reading way', even though in some eyes that is interpreted as penny-pinching or not competing. But if you looked closely at last night's match, 'our' Reading FC competed for many periods of the game against the present incumbent of first position in our national league with no sense of inferiority or lack of brio. There were moments when the visitors knew they were in a game and in certain areas were on the back foot against this imperfect, but (thankfully) honest Reading side.

In particular last night I noticed the following: That when attacked, United were at sixes and sevens, particularly down the flanks (where we were lively and accurate) and from set plays. Under pressure, they panicked often enough for me to grin at their collective sphincters twitching a little against their millionaire jockey shorts as they flailed around. When the little Brazilian was taken off after half an hour or so after having been given a rag-running similar to the one Jerry Williams gave Kenny Sansom at Elm Park many moons ago there was a pivotal point in some of the things that have happened at this club across the past couple of decades. We were able to do this on a place on a stage the club had earned through its collective efforts - not just over last season or the past few games, but in the past, maybe fifteen years as the profile and ethos of RFC has grown and risen. Yes, we are still a small club (comparatively) but it is with pride that you look around the Mad and see that more often than not, this club has changed for ever from the form it took at the beautiful but shabby Elm Park, where expectations were perpetually low, and where any hope of football not just in the highest division, but in the top two, was a bit of a Tilehurst Road pipe dream that you could let drift away on a few pints in the Swiss Cottage on the way home as you returned to more realistic life.

We simply stuffed them at set plays and from the wings coming in to the box. We were less incisive in midfield, but even then it was an improvement on the shambolic, listless show at Villa Park. What it said to me at times was it often seemed that our players have the physical ability (as they have proven so in the past) but that it is in the mental side - that of concentration and thinking ahead, anticipation - where they are often caught cold. Morrison's defending (his attacking was sublime, dangerous, threatening) was neatly outlined on MOTD. He did not get across early enough to snuff out runs that allowed United to score two goals (a little like a rugby player has to know his angles to cut out an attack). Federici (who get's dog's abuse on here) was far from what is required, but having watched him since his early days at the club such deficiencies were not 'new news'. He has always been a shoe-in at the near post, his positioning is poor and his temperament gets the better of him. He's had a particularly bad season this year. Tabb - whose moment of 'non-thinking' gave United a soft penalty when the threat was facing away from goal, played a real blinder in other areas. Effort, strength, desire.

The differences at this level between the team that spent the first season in the Prem and this one seemed to me to be one of mental application and of 'pressing'. That Coppell team pressed, relentlessly, and did not stop. And when in possession their minds were switched on for the entire game. It is speed of thought and anticipation that is sometimes the difference at this level. If you looked cold-eyed at United when they went forward, they cut the spaces left by our more 'stood-back' style of opposition with comparative ease. You cannot be quick-footed unless you are quick-minded.

For me it highlighted the need for some applied and defined specific coaching. We have the basic nucleus of a quite talented and able squad. Where it seems we make life difficult for ourselves is in the application of the basics. Brian continually speaks of having almost what he requires here to do well, and instead of deriding him for the same (as some do) I would say, make more of what it is you have to hand. Coach the team defensively. Coach their thinking, match-day minds. Make them quicker of mind. Coach Federici, train the faults out of his game if you are going to keep him. It's possible. It's done in other sports. These are technical matters that if addressed, would bring a lot of our good players on to the next level.

There's a lot right with our club. But it always depresses me when fans simply take the pantomime route of 'you were great last year but now you're shite'.

Stand back and have a little neutral look for a while. I don't give a f*ck if we go down this year if we are not good enough. We'll bounce back and carry on. I'm more interested in the long-term progress of RFC and what we have become. If I were to be 'proud' of my club for anything, then it would certainly be that. It was good to be back last night. We did ourselves proud and played well. To paraphrase Brian we have 'moved on'. For those of you wishing for knee-jerk change and 'success at all cost', be careful of what you wish for. The best dishes are always best when slow-cooked. I'd rather be at slow-burn Smallmead than shit-storm Stamford Bridge, or worse, 'Lostus' Road, that much is sure.

And for any of you saying 'I'm not reading all that', kindly f*ck off, would you?

Cheers.

oxf*rd off newbie

[Ian Royal]

I do give Morrison ALOT of credit for coming in doing a pretty good job and scoring goals

But at this level the exp him and Mariappa have between them just isn't good enough. If they refuse to play Pearce then we desperately need another central defender IMO

Mariappa's our most PL experienced centreback.


Oh and excellent post Mr Herring. I don't completely agree with all of it, and I'm not convinced McDermott, will or should last the season. But not so much out of we must stay up, but that we must make a decent fight of it. I've seen plenty of these games this season where we haven't and that just isn't good enough for me. But if McDermott can string a few more results together and more importantly, a few more decent performances he's fine by me. It's the throwing away positions of strength I can't stand, not being beaten by the quality of better teams.

[Ark Royal]

we go down* I'll be happy with Mcdermott and the squad for 2 reasons:

1) Standing in the away end at Stamford Bridge being 2:1 up, giving it large to the home fans in their own place.
2) Pretty much silencing the (always excellent) Man Utd away support in the brief moments after we went 3:2 up

I have completely the opposite attitude to you (not picking a fight; we're all different). I take absolutely no pleasure from losing, from throwing away promising positions, from shipping tonnes of goals. Chelsea and Man Utd both walked off with 3 goals and 4 points and that is that.

Last night we let in four goals at home in half an hour. I don't buy all this "proud of the boys" nonsense, that just screams relegation to me. Last time we went down we lost games 7-4 and 6-4. This season we're having 3-3 draws, 3-4 defeats, and indeed a 5-7 defeat. That suggests there's something seriously wrong with the set-up of the team as staying tight at the back should be the first priority of any football side.

Of course Utd were a shambles at the back in the first half but Ferguson played his hand, told them to lock the game down, and that's exactly what they did. We played pretty well in the second half as they sat back, but who honestly thought we'd equalise?

I very much take a long term view of football and have no wish to see Brian leave (as he says, winning the title didn't make him an amazing manager and only winning one game this season doesn't suddenly make him a bad one). It's the nature of football fans to demand instant success and if that's not happening then changing the manager seems to be the only thing they can think of to rectify it. I say keep him, but buckle up for a season full of beatings.

I'm with Maguire on this one, for me a loss is a loss. Yes we played well at times, but why haven't we played to that level in other games? Yes we scored goals, but we lost.....again, so for me their is nothing to celebrate.

Totally agree with Mags on this.

Friends watching in the pub said we gave it a '"really good go..." (condescending cu nts) but history IS repeating itself and this is 2007/08 all over again. I do not doubt our ability to score goals - as shown yesterday with consistently good delivery from the flanks - but we are a car crash at the back. Feds is the most un-goalkeeper-looking goalkeeper I have seen and you can just sense the trepidation of the back four in front of him.

I still cannot believe that the club has made the same mistake TWICE in not bringing in enough quality. For me, the ONLY highlight of the season for me so far has been the emergence of Morrison and the growing maturity of HRK. Need four points from Soton and Sunderland games or we are toast.

[melonhead]

but that we must make a decent fight of it. I've seen plenty of these games this season where we haven't and that just isn't good enough for me.

spurs at home

west brom away

norwich at home

villa away


struggling to think of others

[Royal Rother]

But surely every team that ever gets relegated from any league does so because they haven't brought in enough quality.

Trouble is, some of those who got relegated have as near as dammit gone bust trying but failing to bring in that quality, thus setting back plans for years to come.

It doesn't look like Reading are going to do that which, in my books, is good. By maintaining the financial strength I believe we can look forward to an imminent promotion following this likely relegation.

[Ian Royal]

but that we must make a decent fight of it. I've seen plenty of these games this season where we haven't and that just isn't good enough for me.

spurs at home

west brom away

norwich at home

villa away


struggling to think of others

Like I said, it's as much about self-distructing and giving away positions of strength, so the likes of Wigan, Swansea, and Fulham stick out for me, Newcastle and Chelsea to a lesser extent. With Spurs being a case of just never being in the game in the first place.

Didn't see WBA, Arsenal or Villa. Thankfully.

[Rex]

We we not in a position of strength playing Wigan.

[Ian Royal]

We we not in a position of strength playing Wigan.

Not in the same way as the others, but we equalised with 10 minutes to go and should have been able to hold it. We also went in at HT 1-0 up.

I don't even get vaguely excited when we take the lead now, because you know what's going to happen already.

[Rex]

We we not in a position of strength playing Wigan.

Not in the same way as the others, but we equalised with 10 minutes to go and should have been able to hold it. We also went in at HT 1-0 up.

I don't even get vaguely excited when we take the lead now, because you know what's going to happen already.

It's clenched teeth time all the time this season. Defensively the team fold under the merest of pressure and collectively need to divorce the will to win from the reality of what is on the pitch. Going gung ho to attempt to stifle an attack draws us out of position and allows an unchallenged attempt on goal. As you say it shows tactical Naivety which is not filtering through from the training ground.

[Ian Royal]

It's frustrating, I've not even watched/listenedto the last two games and I can't say I really care right now. It's making drumming up the enthusiasm to arrange another visit very difficult.

[Ian Herring]

My two-penneth worth:

Fortunate enough to attend (I don't get to so many games these days) I was able to enjoy the sense of time-lapsed perspective such infrequent viewing of my beloved club can sometimes bring.

From a football supporter's perspective there is much right about Reading Football Club in many of its various forms that is good. Not just good, but the antithesis of the modern game with all its vile excesses.

I thought against United we showed a great deal of what is 'good' about our club. Yes, there is no doubt that this team in particular is lacking in certain areas. But it also possesses exactly what McDermott has espoused time and time again. Team work, team ethic, not a little confidence and enthusiasm, skill, and a sense of togetherness that simply would negate a battling performance like last night's if those elements were not in place. The imperfections are there to see: a midfield that can be bypassed quite quickly and easily when its members switch off or lose position, a defence that at times does function, but when it does not, exposes itself for its technical frailties at a level of football where you won't get away with a lapse or three during a game against players who are used to knowing how to open up a back four with quite a few tricks and shimmies. Compared to the game against Aston Villa on Tuesday night (that to me looked like two parks teams who'd decided to have a game after a deep session on some Buckfast and a bong), Reading versus United was far more enjoyable fare.

I don't agree with some of the highly personal abuse that some players get on this forum from supporters who see their own vicarious desires thwarted simply because 'their' team isn't doing so well. Nor do I like the modern era's propensity for switching managers like there is no tomorrow or its introductory smell as the smoke burns on the embers of the 'so and so out!' camp fire. McDermott, a hero last year (and prior to that in our Wembley defeat season) and often hailed as a modern day 'modesto' genius, is now seen in some short-sighted eyes as having had his day and approaching his time to go. Be careful what you wish for, knee-jerkers, this man has this club in his own interests, he believes in it, himself, and the players he chooses and selects. He sees the club as a greater entity and buys into the 'Reading way', even though in some eyes that is interpreted as penny-pinching or not competing. But if you looked closely at last night's match, 'our' Reading FC competed for many periods of the game against the present incumbent of first position in our national league with no sense of inferiority or lack of brio. There were moments when the visitors knew they were in a game and in certain areas were on the back foot against this imperfect, but (thankfully) honest Reading side.

In particular last night I noticed the following: That when attacked, United were at sixes and sevens, particularly down the flanks (where we were lively and accurate) and from set plays. Under pressure, they panicked often enough for me to grin at their collective sphincters twitching a little against their millionaire jockey shorts as they flailed around. When the little Brazilian was taken off after half an hour or so after having been given a rag-running similar to the one Jerry Williams gave Kenny Sansom at Elm Park many moons ago there was a pivotal point in some of the things that have happened at this club across the past couple of decades. We were able to do this on a place on a stage the club had earned through its collective efforts - not just over last season or the past few games, but in the past, maybe fifteen years as the profile and ethos of RFC has grown and risen. Yes, we are still a small club (comparatively) but it is with pride that you look around the Mad and see that more often than not, this club has changed for ever from the form it took at the beautiful but shabby Elm Park, where expectations were perpetually low, and where any hope of football not just in the highest division, but in the top two, was a bit of a Tilehurst Road pipe dream that you could let drift away on a few pints in the Swiss Cottage on the way home as you returned to more realistic life.

We simply stuffed them at set plays and from the wings coming in to the box. We were less incisive in midfield, but even then it was an improvement on the shambolic, listless show at Villa Park. What it said to me at times was it often seemed that our players have the physical ability (as they have proven so in the past) but that it is in the mental side - that of concentration and thinking ahead, anticipation - where they are often caught cold. Morrison's defending (his attacking was sublime, dangerous, threatening) was neatly outlined on MOTD. He did not get across early enough to snuff out runs that allowed United to score two goals (a little like a rugby player has to know his angles to cut out an attack). Federici (who get's dog's abuse on here) was far from what is required, but having watched him since his early days at the club such deficiencies were not 'new news'. He has always been a shoe-in at the near post, his positioning is poor and his temperament gets the better of him. He's had a particularly bad season this year. Tabb - whose moment of 'non-thinking' gave United a soft penalty when the threat was facing away from goal, played a real blinder in other areas. Effort, strength, desire.

The differences at this level between the team that spent the first season in the Prem and this one seemed to me to be one of mental application and of 'pressing'. That Coppell team pressed, relentlessly, and did not stop. And when in possession their minds were switched on for the entire game. It is speed of thought and anticipation that is sometimes the difference at this level. If you looked cold-eyed at United when they went forward, they cut the spaces left by our more 'stood-back' style of opposition with comparative ease. You cannot be quick-footed unless you are quick-minded.

For me it highlighted the need for some applied and defined specific coaching. We have the basic nucleus of a quite talented and able squad. Where it seems we make life difficult for ourselves is in the application of the basics. Brian continually speaks of having almost what he requires here to do well, and instead of deriding him for the same (as some do) I would say, make more of what it is you have to hand. Coach the team defensively. Coach their thinking, match-day minds. Make them quicker of mind. Coach Federici, train the faults out of his game if you are going to keep him. It's possible. It's done in other sports. These are technical matters that if addressed, would bring a lot of our good players on to the next level.

There's a lot right with our club. But it always depresses me when fans simply take the pantomime route of 'you were great last year but now you're shite'.

Stand back and have a little neutral look for a while. I don't give a f*ck if we go down this year if we are not good enough. We'll bounce back and carry on. I'm more interested in the long-term progress of RFC and what we have become. If I were to be 'proud' of my club for anything, then it would certainly be that. It was good to be back last night. We did ourselves proud and played well. To paraphrase Brian we have 'moved on'. For those of you wishing for knee-jerk change and 'success at all cost', be careful of what you wish for. The best dishes are always best when slow-cooked. I'd rather be at slow-burn Smallmead than shit-storm Stamford Bridge, or worse, 'Lostus' Road, that much is sure.

And for any of you saying 'I'm not reading all that', kindly f*ck off, would you?

Cheers.

oxf*rd off newbie

Cheers and that, yeah?

[Man Friday]

but that we must make a decent fight of it. I've seen plenty of these games this season where we haven't and that just isn't good enough for me.

spurs at home

west brom away

norwich at home

villa away


struggling to think of others

Depends what is meant by "giving it a go". We were simply outclassed by Spurs (and Swansea) but I've felt that in EVERY match we've given it our best shot i.e. been committed. I certainly saw 100% effort aganist Villa.

[Man Friday]

Well said Herring. Agree with (almost) all of that, especially the fifth paragraph (or fifth block of text anyway - the one that begins "I don't agree with some of the highly personal abuse that some players get on this forum").

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Depends what is meant by "giving it a go". We were simply outclassed by Spurs (and Swansea) but I've felt that in EVERY match we've given it our best shot i.e. been committed. I certainly saw 100% effort aganist Villa.

To me, that's why we are going down.

People are saying we are playing shit etc, but I actually think we are playing about as well as this group of players can hope to play. OK Legiertwood isn't the player he was last year (and he wasn't great for chunks of last year either) and Feds has had an attack of nerves, but the same performances would be getting results in the championship.

The problem is that it's not enough at this level. If we are giving it 100% then we don't have a gear to step up and improve things, and if our heads do ever drop, it could get quite ugly.

Oddly I do think some team is going to come to Reading with the wrong attitude and get taken to pieces this season, but I can't see us winning more than half a dozen games all season.