Safe-Standing petition

[Born 'n Bred Royal]

looking through the news today, it's starting to really gain momentum. I really hope this happens at the madejski because the atmosphere is awful.

+1. The only part of the ground that resembles anything of an atmosphere is the y25 area. And it only sounds so loud there because of the away fans singing next to us!

[White Rougier]

just have to look at Dortmunds ground, best atmosphere in Europe!

[jonnye5]

looking through the news today, it's starting to really gain momentum. I really hope this happens at the madejski because the atmosphere is awful.

+1. The only part of the ground that resembles anything of an atmosphere is the y25 area. And it only sounds so loud there because of the away fans singing next to us!

yeah even if we could one day have a terrace behind the north stand (say about 1000?) that would improve the atmosphere big time. Anyway STAR told me they're well behind this and have spoken to club officials and local MPs. As the publicity is growing, more and more people are supporting it. I reckon 3-5 years time we'll see terraces back, especially as the government in scotland are going to let clubs like celtic and hibs have standing areas it's only right us and wales get are democratic choice. haha went on a bit of a mad one there

[biscuitman]

especially as the government in scotland are going to let clubs like celtic and hibs have standing areas it's only right us and wales get are democratic choice. haha went on a bit of a mad one there

News to me about the Scottish government! I believe it's the actual SFA who are fully behind it.

[notloyalenuffroyal]

looking through the news today, it's starting to really gain momentum. I really hope this happens at the madejski because the atmosphere is awful.

+1. The only part of the ground that resembles anything of an atmosphere is the y25 area. And it only sounds so loud there because of the away fans singing next to us!

Interesting this! Are you a Y25-er by any chance?

I - "shock-horror" - am not a season ticket holder (and by definition I accept therefore - plastic) and roam the ground in search of seats for different games, either purchasing or sharing not via viagogo.

Having roamed the land I can safely say - atmosphere in Y25 - great! Better than the North stand? No! About the same - yep? Only difference is fouler language (no complaints) a bit more banter and abuse of the away fans and more moaning at individual players.

Louder? No. Better songs? Not really - one or two of the less common and traditional ones, but not much better.

Would safestanding help this! Nope - they all stand up anyway (Man U!) and go for the hilarious "Stand up - if you love Readin'" if a steward comes within 2 yrds. What's the piggin' difference.

Save the cash on stadium change and spend it on a player!

[Brian's left bollock]

looking through the news today, it's starting to really gain momentum. I really hope this happens at the madejski because the atmosphere is awful.

+1. The only part of the ground that resembles anything of an atmosphere is the y25 area. And it only sounds so loud there because of the away fans singing next to us!

Interesting this! Are you a Y25-er by any chance?

I - "shock-horror" - am not a season ticket holder (and by definition I accept therefore - plastic) and roam the ground in search of seats for different games, either purchasing or sharing not via viagogo.

Having roamed the land I can safely say - atmosphere in Y25 - great! Better than the North stand? No! About the same - yep? Only difference is fouler language (no complaints) a bit more banter and abuse of the away fans and more moaning at individual players.

Louder? No. Better songs? Not really - one or two of the less common and traditional ones, but not much better.

Would safestanding help this! Nope - they all stand up anyway (Man U!) and go for the hilarious "Stand up - if you love Readin'" if a steward comes within 2 yrds. What's the piggin' difference.

Save the cash on stadium change and spend it on a player!

haha this did make me laugh. I assume you haven't been to the madejski in a very long time. Y25/Y26 is the only part of the ground that sings. North stand is dire. I'm not saying is great but for singing cannot be compared to the north stand.

[notloyalenuffroyal]

haha this did make me laugh. I assume you haven't been to the madejski in a very long time. Y25/Y26 is the only part of the ground that sings. North stand is dire. I'm not saying is great but for singing cannot be compared to the north stand.[/quote]


Been to the last 4 home games.

North stand - south stand Y23 and Y25!

Haven't done West this season, but singin' ain't what they do!

I sang as much in north east as y25! Yes the drummer is still annoying, but he does a job!

[SPARTA]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012 ... t-20000491

Police consider a return to standing room as fans appeal

• Safe standing areas could be trialled at several top grounds
• Police say standing is not the cause of fans' bad behaviour

Senior police officers are prepared to consider the introduction of standing areas at top-flight football grounds if they can be shown to enhance safety and security, a spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers has said.

Speaking at a parliamentary debate organised by the Football Supporters Federation, which is campaigning for safe standing areas to be trialled at leading grounds, Bryan Drew, representing ACPO, said: "ACPO is very happy to engage in this discussion and this debate. ACPO need to be convinced that this change would enhance safety and security. I can assure you there is an ongoing discussion among police commanders and ACPO colleagues about this issue."

The government remains opposed to standing areas in the top two divisions, prohibited following the implementation of Lord Justice Taylor's 1990 report which recommended all-seat stadiums. The sports minister, Hugh Robertson, has stated that for any change to be sanctioned, a "compelling case" would have to be made by the football authorities, clubs and particularly the police.

The sensitivity around the subject is rooted in that Taylor's all-seat recommendation, in his second, final report, followed the 1989 Hillsborough disaster in which 96 Liverpool supporters were killed on Sheffield Wednesday's unsafe Leppings Lane terrace. Taylor's first, interim, report identified failures by South Yorkshire police and Sheffield Wednesday as the causes of the disaster, not standing itself. However the Hillsborough Family Support Group remains opposed to supporters being allowed to stand because they believe seating has been a contributory factor to preventing similar disasters.

Police opposition to the proposal, however, is not that standing areas are in themselves unsafe, but that supporters are more likely to misbehave when standing. Andy Holt, the deputy chief constable of South Yorkshire police, who leads for ACPO on football policing, has told the Guardian he is opposed to standing areas because he believes it could contribute to "the unruly element" and hooliganism increasing in football.

But Superintendent Steven Graham of West Midlands police, an experienced match commander, expressed a different view at the parliamentary event, arguing that football, supporters, policing and stewarding have changed since terracing was outlawed. He backed the FSF's call for safe standing areas to be trialled.

"There is a mood change within police match commanders, and I would like to think my chief constable would not oppose a move to safe standing," Graham said at the event. "The idea that if people are put in a standing area they will behave criminally is totally wrong.

"The person who threw a coin at Rio Ferdinand [at Sunday's Manchester derby] and the person who jumped on to the pitch at Hillsborough and assaulted the goalkeeper [Chris Kirkland when Sheffield Wednesday met Leeds United last month] came from seated areas. They did so not because they were standing but they behave like that because they are morons and criminals."

Graham argued that misbehaviour must be dealt with, but forcing supporters to sit when they want to stand has become a point of conflict. "We have experience of English football in the 1980s and of German standing areas now, but we have very little experience of what standing would look like in the UK now.

"We need to gather data so that we can make decisions and give the best possible customer experience at football. I would not be riddled with fear if I was policing a standing area."

The FSF argues that it is a "speculative and anecdotal" myth, not supported by evidence, that crowd misbehaviour is more difficult to manage in standing areas. Their call is for modern rail seat standing areas, similar to those installed at German Bundesliga grounds, to be trialled and assessed for their impact on crowd safety, plus supporters' experience and enjoyment of the game.

Aston Villa are one Premier League club publicly calling for a standing area trial, and have already designated a corner of Villa Park, next to the Holte End. Brian Doogan, Villa's head of communications, said the club backed the FSF's work and is not proposing a return to the unsafe terraces of the past. "This is something new and we are encouraging people in the game to discuss it," Doogan said. "The overwhelming response from our supporters has been positive and I think that would be mirrored at many other clubs."

Publicly, West Ham United's chairman, David Gold, has said he would like to incorporate safe standing in the Olympic Stadium if his club becomes its tenant, and Sunderland's safety officer, Paul Weir, has backed standing areas. Dai Little, of the Swansea City Supporters' Trust, which owns 21% of the Premier League club and has an elected supporter on the board, said Swansea are considering standing areas in their plans to expand the Liberty Stadium. Peterborough United's chief executive, Bob Symns, is leading calls in the Championship to allow a trial of safe standing.

"I have not spoken to [any chairman or chief executive] who has said they don't want it," Symns said. "For me, it is a no-brainer."

[St Pauli]

Would safestanding help this! Nope - they all stand up anyway (Man U!) and go for the hilarious "Stand up - if you love Readin'" if a steward comes within 2 yrds. What's the piggin' difference.

If it was a terrace it would help, the main reason being on a terrace it's much easier to stand with your mates, a lot harder to organise in all ST reserved spaces. As I understand it these safe standing areas wouldn't be a terrace, so it wouldn't be any easier to stand with mates BUT it would give a clear part of the stadium designated to the kind of fan that wants to sing, so there'd be a coming together of the Y26 and North stand singers.

Problem is at Reading, if they ever introduced it, it wouldn't be anywhere near the away end, probably the North stand, where the lack of proximity to away fans would lessen opportunities for banter and as a result worsen the atmosphere, or lessen the causes of original chants etc. Would still want it though, in for standing and hopefully slightly cheaper tickets...

[jonnye5]

looking through the news today, it's starting to really gain momentum. I really hope this happens at the madejski because the atmosphere is awful.

+1. The only part of the ground that resembles anything of an atmosphere is the y25 area. And it only sounds so loud there because of the away fans singing next to us!

Interesting this! Are you a Y25-er by any chance?

I - "shock-horror" - am not a season ticket holder (and by definition I accept therefore - plastic) and roam the ground in search of seats for different games, either purchasing or sharing not via viagogo.

Having roamed the land I can safely say - atmosphere in Y25 - great! Better than the North stand? No! About the same - yep? Only difference is fouler language (no complaints) a bit more banter and abuse of the away fans and more moaning at individual players.

Louder? No. Better songs? Not really - one or two of the less common and traditional ones, but not much better.

Would safestanding help this! Nope - they all stand up anyway (Man U!) and go for the hilarious "Stand up - if you love Readin'" if a steward comes within 2 yrds. What's the piggin' difference.

Save the cash on stadium change and spend it on a player!

hahaha clueless

[UpThePrem]

looking through the news today, it's starting to really gain momentum. I really hope this happens at the madejski because the atmosphere is awful.

+1. The only part of the ground that resembles anything of an atmosphere is the y25 area. And it only sounds so loud there because of the away fans singing next to us!

Interesting this! Are you a Y25-er by any chance?

I - "shock-horror" - am not a season ticket holder (and by definition I accept therefore - plastic) and roam the ground in search of seats for different games, either purchasing or sharing not via viagogo.

Having roamed the land I can safely say - atmosphere in Y25 - great! Better than the North stand? No! About the same - yep? Only difference is fouler language (no complaints) a bit more banter and abuse of the away fans and more moaning at individual players.

Louder? No. Better songs? Not really - one or two of the less common and traditional ones, but not much better.

Would safestanding help this! Nope - they all stand up anyway (Man U!) and go for the hilarious "Stand up - if you love Readin'" if a steward comes within 2 yrds. What's the piggin' difference.

Save the cash on stadium change and spend it on a player!

Completely agree with this. North stand recently has been louder than Y25/Y26. There also far better at supporting the team. Y25 is more interested in the banter/winding up the away fans than backing the team.

FTR i'm a season ticket holder and have been to every game for the last few years.

[biscuitman]

Completely agree with this. North stand recently has been louder than Y25/Y26. There also far better at supporting the team. Y25 is more interested in the banter/winding up the away fans than backing the team.

Made my day. Absolute BS.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

If you people are going to turn this into a "my part of the stand can piss higher than yours can" slanging match can you take it to another thread that's not about safe-standing?

[Turns8]

If you people are going to turn this into a "my part of the stand can piss higher than yours can" slanging match can you take it to another thread that's not about safe-standing?

Dirkers, do you have any info on the club's stance on this as I noticed that they aren't on the list of clubs who are 'up for it'...Has the club flatly said no or were we just not chosen to be part of the pilot etc.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

If you people are going to turn this into a "my part of the stand can piss higher than yours can" slanging match can you take it to another thread that's not about safe-standing?

Dirkers, do you have any info on the club's stance on this as I noticed that they aren't on the list of clubs who are 'up for it'...Has the club flatly said no or were we just not chosen to be part of the pilot etc.

Key people within the club are privately supportive of the safe-standing concept and would be very interested in seeing the results of any trial.

But they don't feel that they can publicly support this at the moment .... as well as potential conflict with the PL and their local SAG I think this is mainly because they are worried about setting the wrong expectations for Reading supporters, because the current layout of the MadStad is not suitable for the implementation of safe-standing, and so nothing could be implemented *before* any stadium expansion.

Personally, I think that the majority of Reading supporters are big enough and sensible enough to understand clearly enough that a statement supporting a trail elsewhere of safe-standing is not RFC saying "we're about to introduce safe-standing."

So to try and move things forward here I'm in the middle of writing a piece for TheTilehurstEnd on this very subject, and what people can do to support the campaign. But I've been stuck with it for a couple of weeks now due to conflicting priorities - sometimes life gets in the way of football, sadly.

[Turns8]

If you people are going to turn this into a "my part of the stand can piss higher than yours can" slanging match can you take it to another thread that's not about safe-standing?

Dirkers, do you have any info on the club's stance on this as I noticed that they aren't on the list of clubs who are 'up for it'...Has the club flatly said no or were we just not chosen to be part of the pilot etc.

Key people within the club are privately supportive of the safe-standing concept and would be very interested in seeing the results of any trial.

But they don't feel that they can publicly support this at the moment .... as well as potential conflict with the PL and their local SAG I think this is mainly because they are worried about setting the wrong expectations for Reading supporters, because the current layout of the MadStad is not suitable for the implementation of safe-standing, and so nothing could be implemented *before* any stadium expansion.

Personally, I think that the majority of Reading supporters are big enough and sensible enough to understand clearly enough that a statement supporting a trail elsewhere of safe-standing is not RFC saying "we're about to introduce safe-standing."

So to try and move things forward here I'm in the middle of writing a piece for TheTilehurstEnd on this very subject, and what people can do to support the campaign. But I've been stuck with it for a couple of weeks now due to conflicting priorities - sometimes life gets in the way of football, sadly.

Cheers for the update... First with the news that counts...

[West Stand Man]

I love all the rose tinted memories of the Elm Park atmosphere. I spent many a year going onto the South Bank, starting in 1966 and going through until we moved. I also sat in the stands on the odd occasion. It was great but throughout the time I was going there I dreamed of us moving to a decent stadium where I could feel proud of being a Reading fan rather than a urine infested flea pit.

As I have oft made clear, I don't have a hankering to return to standing. If it comes back under popular demand so be it. I do find it odd that the same group of people who are currently sitting together believe they will create a different atmosphere by standing. Again, if that is a popular belief, so be it. I still think it will take a lot to make the government 'take the risk' on this change. The proponents an cite evidence from safe standing in Germany but the legacy f the Englsh past lives on for too many people.

Strangely, while the noise on the South Bank sounded great when you were there but less so from the other side of the pitch. The pitched roof did that, trapping the sound in rather than reflecting out to the pitch. I have been to more atmospheric games at Madejski than I did at Elm Park. Mind you, that may be because we now get regular big crowds. Even before EP was limited to 11k we rarely got crowds that could really make the atmosphere hum.

[jonnye5]

I love all the rose tinted memories of the Elm Park atmosphere. I spent many a year going onto the South Bank, starting in 1966 and going through until we moved. I also sat in the stands on the odd occasion. It was great but throughout the time I was going there I dreamed of us moving to a decent stadium where I could feel proud of being a Reading fan rather than a urine infested flea pit.

As I have oft made clear, I don't have a hankering to return to standing. If it comes back under popular demand so be it. I do find it odd that the same group of people who are currently sitting together believe they will create a different atmosphere by standing. Again, if that is a popular belief, so be it. I still think it will take a lot to make the government 'take the risk' on this change. The proponents an cite evidence from safe standing in Germany but the legacy f the Englsh past lives on for too many people.

Strangely, while the noise on the South Bank sounded great when you were there but less so from the other side of the pitch. The pitched roof did that, trapping the sound in rather than reflecting out to the pitch. I have been to more atmospheric games at Madejski than I did at Elm Park. Mind you, that may be because we now get regular big crowds. Even before EP was limited to 11k we rarely got crowds that could really make the atmosphere hum.

but the thing is, only a certain amount will stand up, you won't have to stand up yourself necessarily. The whole point of the safe standing initiative is that people who want to stand up and sing, can in a group together in the safe standing area.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

I love all the rose tinted memories of the Elm Park atmosphere. I spent many a year going onto the South Bank, starting in 1966 and going through until we moved. I also sat in the stands on the odd occasion. It was great but throughout the time I was going there I dreamed of us moving to a decent stadium where I could feel proud of being a Reading fan rather than a urine infested flea pit.

As I have oft made clear, I don't have a hankering to return to standing. If it comes back under popular demand so be it. I do find it odd that the same group of people who are currently sitting together believe they will create a different atmosphere by standing. Again, if that is a popular belief, so be it. I still think it will take a lot to make the government 'take the risk' on this change. The proponents an cite evidence from safe standing in Germany but the legacy f the Englsh past lives on for too many people.

Strangely, while the noise on the South Bank sounded great when you were there but less so from the other side of the pitch. The pitched roof did that, trapping the sound in rather than reflecting out to the pitch. I have been to more atmospheric games at Madejski than I did at Elm Park. Mind you, that may be because we now get regular big crowds. Even before EP was limited to 11k we rarely got crowds that could really make the atmosphere hum.

But no-one is talking about a return to big, old terraces like the South Bank ... this is a much smaller scale, say just 15-25% or so of the stadium.

And it's not just about atmosphere - it's about choice. Lots of people prefer to watch matches while standing - this is letting them do so, while making sure they do it safely, and it also improves things for people who don't want to stand or who can't, because those who do want to are now somewhere else and not in their way any longer.

[larry1971]

I love all the rose tinted memories of the Elm Park atmosphere. I spent many a year going onto the South Bank, starting in 1966 and going through until we moved. I also sat in the stands on the odd occasion. It was great but throughout the time I was going there I dreamed of us moving to a decent stadium where I could feel proud of being a Reading fan rather than a urine infested flea pit.
.

lets face it a lot of pre Hillsborough stadiums were like that when I first started going to games back in the early 80's I was living in Lonon I went with my friend who was an Arsenal fan - as fantastic a stadium the old Highbury was back then I can remember the poor standard of the toilets on the North Bank , full to capacity it held over 20,000 yet there were only a couple of actua toilets . But looking at the Mad Stad I think the only realistic place any safe standing could go is in the lower tier of the the main west stand as this would probably cause the least disruption.