Safe-Standing petition

[LoyalRoyalFan]

I have zero idea, but I'm not sure what Belfast has to do with St.Pauli, lean any more left and you'll fall out the window.

LOLoyaLOLRoyaLOLFan. Clearly not loyal enough. You hate Celtic and you don't even know why.

Sum up Celtic in one word - scum.

Booing a minute silence, burning poppies, anti-British - yet more than happy to play in the Scottish leagues.

[St Pauli]

Booing a minute silence, burning poppies, anti-British - yet more than happy to play in the Scottish leagues.

Yeah but the Scottish leagues won't be British that much longer will they? Where's ya Union gone?

[LoyalRoyalFan]

Booing a minute silence, burning poppies, anti-British - yet more than happy to play in the Scottish leagues.

Yeah but the Scottish leagues won't be British that much longer will they? Where's ya Union gone?

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, if the Scots want to leave, so be it. We're detracting from the point.

Do continue supporting a club that supports fan violence though.

[St Pauli]

Do continue supporting a club that supports fan violence though.

Do you mean St Pauli or Celtic? When it comes to Scotch football got to say I'm a Hibs boy myself.

[harryroyal]

Booing a minute silence, burning poppies, anti-British - yet more than happy to play in the Scottish leagues.

Yeah but the Scottish leagues won't be British that much longer will they? Where's ya Union gone?

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, if the Scots want to leave, so be it. We're detracting from the point.

Do continue supporting a club that supports fan violence though.

There's a difference between clubs having violent fans and a club that supports violence. Every club in this country, including Reading (there here somewhere), have violent fans.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

St.Pauli have a left wing reputation to uphold.

[harryroyal]

I have zero idea, but I'm not sure what Belfast has to do with St.Pauli, lean any more left and you'll fall out the window.

LOLoyaLOLRoyaLOLFan. Clearly not loyal enough. You hate Celtic and you don't even know why.

Sum up Celtic in one word - scum.

Booing a minute silence, burning poppies, anti-British - yet more than happy to play in the Scottish leagues.

Also, they have quite a good reason to be anti-british.

[St Pauli]

St.Pauli have a left wing reputation to uphold.

Come on Loyal spit it out, which babies have St Pauli fans eaten now? A few things spring to mind that you might be getting at, I'm just interested in how much homework you've done on this...

[LoyalRoyalFan]

St.Pauli have a left wing reputation to uphold.

Come on Loyal spit it out, which babies have St Pauli fans eaten now? A few things spring to mind that you might be getting at, I'm just interested in how much homework you've done on this...

The blue side of Hamburg?

[harryroyal]

HSV scum.

[St Pauli]

The blue side of Hamburg?

As I thought, very little. As it happens with a few exceptions the HSV ultras are actually pretty lefty themselves, at least they would be on your spectrum.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

The blue side of Hamburg?

As I thought, very little. As it happens with a few exceptions the HSV ultras are actually pretty lefty themselves, at least they would be on your spectrum.

Where would I sit in the spectrum then?

[Alexander Litvinenko]

We are a club that has grown, with a wider fan base, most of which have chosen to support Reading since the move to the Mad Stad. They tend to like sitting. Are there really 5000 fans who want to stand? Really?

Ah, so the fact that they choose to sit at the Madejski is proof that they prefer sitting?

No - but they had little choice at Elm Park (I remember the seating was always pretty full).

The fact that they are sitting doesn't also mean they don't want to! There is simply very little evidence that LOTS of people want to stand in ONE club. I am still waiting for the LOTS definition.

What is the definition of lots? Have we reached the 5000? - is there an RFC safe standing petition that has 5000 signatures? If so - great! I'll applaud the success and wish the campaign the best of luck - but is it nearer the 1000 mark? Or 15,000? I simply don't know! I want evidence! Not someone just saying "Lots".

A number of points to address here :

I've posted the results of surveys here a number of times before - and just about every survey at every club (as well as those that are not club specific) show the same broad results.

The percentage of people who want the opportunity to stand themselves is generally in the range of 30-40%, whilst the percentage of people who want others to have the opportunity to stand
is almost always over 80% and usually around 90%.

Because it's not just about those who want to stand, it's about those who want freedom of choice for everyone, even if it's just for the selfish reasons of not having people who want to stand in front of them.

And you're also missing the point that all the discussions of those who sit now excludes the people who don't come to football any more because they can't stand - and that demographic certainly does exist.

And let's take the 5,000 number you've used - to get safe-standing areas in the MadStad to accommodate 5,000 people you wouldn't lose 5,000 seats. Because of the increased capacities of safe-standing areas you would only lose 2777 seats, and you'd get a cheap capacity increase of 80%.

But, above all the whole point of a trial (which is what's being called for) is to find out all these things for sure. There's a club which wants to conduct this trial to gather evidence, including demand and supporter behaviour, at their own expense. How can anyone realistically oppose this - or even fail to support it?

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Just posted a lengthy article on safe-standing at the MadStad http://www.thetilehurstend.com/2012/12/29/3811808/safe-standing-at-reading on TheTilehurstEnd.

As well as explaining the political situation and what the campaign wants to happen and how far it's got, this also details what people can do now to add their support to the campaign via Reading FC and their own MPs.

If you support the idea of safe-standing, please consider sending off two emails (one to Reading FC and one to your MP) to help move this forward as detailed at the bottom on this article.

[AthleticoSpizz]

good work

But one would assume that there is an "anti-standing" petition going on somewhere with the same enthusiastic campaigning?

The ying needs a yang

Without it, yours would be a very one sided and pointless thing....and possibly, yet perpetually poo poohed many times for that reason alone.

[St Pauli]

Great work AL, I'll contact the club. I didn't realise safe standing areas had to be either/or, that the seats were locked upright when it's in standing mode. Does this mean when sold tickets in such an area when it's in standing mode you are not allocated a specific place but can mingle with friends and stand where you want? The allocated/reserved issue is the greatest thing destroying atmosphere imo, that and high prices.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

the strange thing in all this, despite the clear evidence that a lot of people do want to stand, is the truly pathetic number of signatures on the official e-petition.

Maybe people just don't understand how these things work, but they clearly see no point in signing it.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

A move in the right direction.

Great to see Y25/26 standing, with the stewards showing leniency. I was in Y25 for the Swansea match and stood for the duration, it was great.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

good work

But one would assume that there is an "anti-standing" petition going on somewhere with the same enthusiastic campaigning?

The ying needs a yang

Without it, yours would be a very one sided and pointless thing....and possibly, yet perpetually poo poohed many times for that reason alone.

Nope - because the actual supporters who are against a trial are very few, over 90% of supporters favour safe-standing (see various surveys) because they can see the benefits for themselves even if they'd never use such an area themselves.

The opponents are those who hold power and like the status quo - in some ways its the same mentality as those who wanted ID cards for supporters in the 80s, those who bracket all supporters as a bunch of yobs who will damn well get what they're given despite what they actually want.

Plus, of course, those who benefit from football being a gentrified pastime for the monies middle-classes only.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Great work AL, I'll contact the club. I didn't realise safe standing areas had to be either/or, that the seats were locked upright when it's in standing mode. Does this mean when sold tickets in such an area when it's in standing mode you are not allocated a specific place but can mingle with friends and stand where you want? The allocated/reserved issue is the greatest thing destroying atmosphere imo, that and high prices.

Thanks .

Ideally, yes, a safe-standing area is unreserved and people take places that are free. The lateral rails prevent crushes or over-crowding. That's how it works in Germany, although there are options for having numbered spaces so people stand in their allocated space.