Played like West ham?

[Snowball]

I KNOW how good the stats look, but I still maintain we rarely played
well, and it was just "our time" the way things fell for us and some luck

Just look at the actual games. (My point BTW is we need a LOT of strengthening to avoid doing a Derby)

We started 2012 really poorly

A (Pos 06) 1-3 Cardiff Even Karacan says we were comprehensively outplayed

H Fa CUP 0-1 Stevenage We were appalling

A (Poss 11) 2-1 Watford We were very average

H (Pos 08) 0-1 Hull Another loss We probably deserved 0-0 but we weren't good


Then signed Roberts, but we were playing a lot of relegation and bottom-end sides
sneaking wins but rarely hammering anybody (except, arguably, Barnsley.)

and I was waiting for the "correction" in the tougher games at season-end.

Look at the first 11 games of that run playing against league positions
07, 09, 12, 13, 16, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 up to Blackpool Game



H (Pos 20) 1-0 Bristol I don't remember much about the game except for the pen miss/scuffed in

H (Pos 23) 2-0 Coventry Home win against a relegation side

A (Pos 12) 1-0 Derby Solid win away to mid-table side

H (Pos 13) 1-0 Burnley Lucky win, Burnley played the football

A (Pos 07) 2-0 Middlesbrough Good professional away performance but Boro were sliding badly

A (Pos 16) 2-1 Millwall (Outplayed first-half, not exactly brilliant)

H (Pos 22) 1-0 Portsmouth Another relegation side beaten (just)

H (Pos 09) 3-1 Leicester Decent performance

A (Pos 24) 1-1 Doncaster Failed to win away to a relegation team

A (Pos 21) 4-0 Barnsley We were very poor first-half, and Barnsley are crap

A (Pos 18) 1-3 Peterborough We were played off the park

H (Pos 05) 3-1 Blackpool Decent performance, one of our best

A (Pos 03) 4-2 West Ham For 30 minutes we were on for a 4-0 drubbing, stole a half-time lead.

H (Pos 14) 2-0 Leeds Tough game and it took our sub to win it

A (Pos 10) 1-0 Brighton Daylight robbery, we got very lucky with out goal, huge deflection

A (Pos 02) 3-1 Southampton Lucky for us +Saint's VG play but missing their shooting boots

H (Pos 19) 1-0 Forest Forest had the chances

H (Pos 17) 2-2 Palace Scores tells all

A (Pos 04) 0-2 Birmingham Outplayed, one shot on target whole game

+1

Well said Snowbell. We were lucky last season with all those points we won after January and signings like the one we've already made and are about to make in Marriapa are not going to give us the sufficient quality that we missed so much last season.

Your brand of forthright realism doesn't sit with these miscreants who mask their negativity with false claims of positivity but you have been correct before and I'm sure the same will happen this time.

[creative_username_1]

Is this some LOOK AT ME thing

Why are you bringing this up?

[Snowball]

Because we were not good enough last year and got lucky

But there are too many clowns saying we WEREN'T lucky, the table does not lie.

At least a few of us said we were stealing it and might do a Derby.

[Vision]

Because we were not good enough last year and got lucky

But there are too many clowns saying we WEREN'T lucky, the table does not lie.

At least a few of us said we were stealing it and might do a Derby.

Laughable really.

We were good enough last season. Just because what was absolutely good enough last season isn't suitable or good enough this season doesn't mean you can rewrite history.

We topped the table after 46 games. By definition we were "good enough"

This season is and always was going to be a different scenario with a different set of problems and issues.

But well done for pointing out that the Championship side might struggle in the Premiership.

[creative_username_1]

Cheers Vision i srsly thought about replying but didn't want to get involved.

Snowball will see current results as vindication of his argument and then prolly make some ref to Shane Long

[Snowball]

We were lucky last season.

Now we pay the price for pretending we weren't

[creative_username_1]

Go through any team that has ever won something and you'll find countless times were they were lucky.

It's just you're OPINION that we were lucky its not a fact

[Vision]

We were lucky last season.

Now we pay the price for pretending we weren't

You just don't (won't?) get it.

Our struggles this season do not mean we didn't deserve to be top of the table last season. Perhaps we should hand the Championshiptrophy over to West Ham as they've done so much better the following year.

Tell me; should the fact that Man Utd have done better so far this season than Man City mean Man City didn't deserve the title last season?

[Hampshire Royal]

Sorry Snowball. I've got a lot of time for the stuff you normally post, but this is just not true. We were not lucky. We played every side twice as did every other side. We were the best team because we ended up topping the division. We played in a particular way, i.e. we allowed sides to have possession and then hit them on the break. Played as the away side, if you like. The fact that we are not doing well this season is because we are playing better sides, and the tactics used last year do not work, at least they don't if you don't have players that can do this against much better teams.

[Snowball]

Sorry Snowball. I've got a lot of time for the stuff you normally post, but this is just not true. We were not lucky. We played every side twice as did every other side. We were the best team because we ended up topping the division.

No we topped the division because we topped the division.

We were inferior to Saints, West ham and Birmingham
and not much different from Cardiff and Boro

And things just fell into place at a crucial time.

We played in a particular way, i.e. we allowed sides to have possession and then hit them on the break. Played as the away side, if you like. The fact that we are not doing well this season is because we are playing better sides, and the tactics used last year do not work, at least they don't if you don't have players that can do this against much better teams.

Which is the point some of us were making.

I and others said we only had Kebe who could change games

I and others said we gave away too much possession and were lucky to get away with it but wouldn't in the higher division

I and others said we gave away too many chances and would be punished in the higher division

[Platypuss]

No we topped the division because we topped the division.

We were inferior to Saints, West ham and Birmingham
and not much different from Cardiff and Boro

Football isn't figure-skating, you don't extra points for artistic merit.

[creative_username_1]

We were inferior to Saints, West ham and Birmingham
and not much different from Cardiff and Boro

This is opinion and not fact.

[Vision]

The irony of Mr Statto actually ignoring the only stat that's ultimately significant because it doesn't fit his opinion.

Umpteen posts about goals per minute by individual players in completely different circmustances are to be revered and slavishly worshipped (even if they're not always accurate) but the most number of points in 46 game football season where every team plays every other team home and away twice is somehow erroneous.

I'm expecting a whoosh any minute here because he can't possibly really believe what he's saying can he?

[Platypuss]

The steps of the Snowball SImplified Scientific Method:

Analysis
Conclusion
Find evidence to fit conclusion

[Wimb]

The irony of Mr Statto actually ignoring the only stat that's ultimately significant because it doesn't fit his opinion.

Umpteen posts about goals per minute by individual players in completely different circmustances are to be revered and slavishly worshipped (even if they're not always accurate) but the most number of points in 46 game football season where every team plays every other team home and away twice is somehow erroneous.

I'm expecting a whoosh any minute here because he can't possibly really believe what he's saying can he?

^^^^ this.

It's a classic situation of goalposts being moved to suit his own agenda.

TBF to him, I do understand his point about it being a fortunate run of fixtures and some 'lucky' results, but then again as others have said, that happens to all teams.

Just look at how Southampton mugged Leeds last year when Davis had a blinder, or how they got a point at the Madejski through one tiny lapse in our concentration. Likewise look at how West Ham stole a point from Birmingham late in the season after Brum blew a sizeable lead.

I think it's foolish to believe that Brian and the management team thought that the promotion squad was good enough. What they did was strengthen with the budget they had available and took gambles that A) the squad would remain fit B) that young players like Jem, Pearce, HRK would step up another level C) the new signings who were stars at Championship level, would also make the step up and D) the three signings of 'quality', Shorey, Pog & Guthrie would each be a bedrock of the defence, midfield and attack.

Sadly A) didn't happen. B) Hasn't happened C) Hasn't happened and D) Shorey excepted, hasn't happened.

Yeah we all saw the flaws but we also saw the rough logic behind the summer's dealings.

[Vision]

The irony of Mr Statto actually ignoring the only stat that's ultimately significant because it doesn't fit his opinion.

Umpteen posts about goals per minute by individual players in completely different circmustances are to be revered and slavishly worshipped (even if they're not always accurate) but the most number of points in 46 game football season where every team plays every other team home and away twice is somehow erroneous.

I'm expecting a whoosh any minute here because he can't possibly really believe what he's saying can he?

^^^^ this.

It's a classic situation of goalposts being moved to suit his own agenda.

TBF to him, I do understand his point about it being a fortunate run of fixtures and some 'lucky' results, but then again as others have said, that happens to all teams.

Just look at how Southampton mugged Leeds last year when Davis had a blinder, or how they got a point at the Madejski through one tiny lapse in our concentration. Likewise look at how West Ham stole a point from Birmingham late in the season after Brum blew a sizeable lead.

I think it's foolish to believe that Brian and the management team thought that the promotion squad was good enough. What they did was strengthen with the budget they had available and took gambles that A) the squad would remain fit B) that young players like Jem, Pearce, HRK would step up another level C) the new signings who were stars at Championship level, would also make the step up and D) the three signings of 'quality', Shorey, Pog & Guthrie would each be a bedrock of the defence, midfield and attack.

Sadly A) didn't happen. B) Hasn't happened C) Hasn't happened and D) Shorey excepted, hasn't happened.

Yeah we all saw the flaws but we also saw the rough logic behind the summer's dealings.

I've said all along you can see the logic in how we went about it, even if it clearly hasn't worked. If we just take Saints and West Ham. We can't compete against the money Saints were prepared to spend and we can't compete against the fact that West Ham's side is vastly experienced in the Premier League.

So we went with the Norwich method of using the squad togetherness and momentum of promotion whilst adding highly regarded players from outside the Premiership. The bought Pilkington from league 1, Ryan Bennett from Peterboro, Howson and Johnson from Leeds and only one player from a Premiership club Ayala who barely kicked a ball for them. In Guthrie,Pog and Shorey we've added more Premiership experience than Norwich and possibly Swnasea as well. For a club with our resources it made some sense, the problem as you say is that Shorey aside none of our transfers have worked so far and as I said our key players from last season are now past their peak. The likes of Mcnuff, Leigertwood and Roberts were great for us last season but with all due respect to all three, even if they were good enough for the Premiership their better days are behind them.

Of course none of the above is really relevant as to whether we deserved to win the league last year. Because flat out we did.

[REMTARDROYAL]

I don't think I could agree with Wimb and Vision enough.

I do think there could have been warning signs that QPR felt that both Leitgerwood and Gorkss were both surplus to requirements. But again, that's a call by the manager and once made there's precious little we can do until January. Not having that extra game or two before the end of the transfer window meant we couldn't fire test players until it was too late.

[Booseal]

I can see what Snowball's saying. Last season, there's no doubting that ultimately we were the "best" team, but it was more a case of coughing and spluttering and scraping our way to the top. We hardly looked like world beaters, and noone I knew had much confidence we could cut it in the Prem.

The problem is most of us have had the pleasure of seeing the 05/06 team, where we pi$$ed all over the rest of the league. Perhaps an unfair, but inevitable, comparison.

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

All I know is that I came away from the ground in the majority of those games last season shaking my head in disbelief that we'd been massively outplayed for 9/10ths of the game and still won.

Perhaps we were the fittest, most robust, most determined, most 'together' group of players in the Championship, but in pure footballing terms - no way were we the best. Anyone that went to a large portion of the games would have seen that.

[creative_username_1]

All I know is that I came away from the ground in the majority of those games last season shaking my head in disbelief that we'd been massively outplayed for 9/10ths of the game and still won.

Perhaps we were the fittest, most robust, most determined, most 'together' group of players in the Championship, but in pure footballing terms - no way were we the best. Anyone that went to a large portion of the games would have seen that.

again this is just opinion. Not having a dig btw