Back from the game - Swansea

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CayeneMatt
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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by CayeneMatt » 27 Dec 2012 17:08

Tony Le Mesmer I want to put out a big shout for Ian Harte.

Not that he was amazing yesterday (solid 7/10) but for an old timer who had no pace at 25 let alone 35, its incredible that he's dropped down to league 1 level and managed to get all the way back to playing Premier League football so late in his career. He's been slagged off by a lot of people who simply cant see what he brings to the team. I watched him specifically for a fair bit yesterday and at times he could hardly run at all, you need a lot of experince and class to play at this level to make up for that, which is something he has bundles of. Somone just said he cant defend. :lol: He's spent 5mins off the pitch in the last 2 games and look what happened? Shorey may tick more boxes, but somehow we always look better as a team with Harte playing. An absolute Model Pro, which is something you couldnt say about 1 or 2 of our current players who are bizzarly idolised by some sections of our support.


Harte seems to respond well after getting dropped. Definitely worked last season, and this season he deserved to lose his place. But his reading of the game is second to none and we've looked better since he came back in the side.

All the idiots on here kissing Shorey's arse obviously didn't see his last 4 or 5 games. He was a breath of fresh air when he took over a few months back, but his generally play has been dire this past month and McD has acted on it. Shame he won't do the same with Ledge.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Royal Biscuitman » 27 Dec 2012 17:40

Born 'n Bred Royal I'm really getting sick of how poor Pogrebnyak is playing.
At times he showed some good Simon Church like qualities.

Le Fondre had an impact when he came on, but perhaps that was because he came on and didn't start.

Leigerwood is a tryer, However he gave the ball away far too cheaply and far too often. No point playing a ball winning midfielder if they win the ball and give it back.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by LoyalRoyal22 » 27 Dec 2012 18:00

Royal Biscuitman
Born 'n Bred Royal I'm really getting sick of how poor Pogrebnyak is playing.
At times he showed some good Simon Church like qualities.

Le Fondre had an impact when he came on, but perhaps that was because he came on and didn't start.

Leigerwood is a tryer, However he gave the ball away far too cheaply and far too often. No point playing a ball winning midfielder if they win the ball and give it back.



Pog cant do anymore. Not his fault he isnt quick, he isnt Shane Long. Works so hard, and literally gets no service

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Mike Hunt
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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Mike Hunt » 27 Dec 2012 18:13

LoyalRoyal22
Royal Biscuitman
Born 'n Bred Royal I'm really getting sick of how poor Pogrebnyak is playing.
At times he showed some good Simon Church like qualities.

Le Fondre had an impact when he came on, but perhaps that was because he came on and didn't start.

Leigerwood is a tryer, However he gave the ball away far too cheaply and far too often. No point playing a ball winning midfielder if they win the ball and give it back.



Pog cant do anymore. Not his fault he isnt quick, he isnt Shane Long. Works so hard, and literally gets no service


+1. He broke up a few plays and then Pog-sprinted forward, only to have the ball wasted by someone. He did have a horrid touch on one of his runs though. You could see how frustrated he was by that though straight away.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by LoyalRoyal22 » 27 Dec 2012 18:15

Yeh literally the only time he had abit of space, touch let him down. But you can see he cares and is trying as hard as anyone


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Royal With Cheese
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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Royal With Cheese » 27 Dec 2012 18:23

First half was largely unforgettable. 45 minutes of tippy tappy rubbish from Swansea which, without penetration, is like watching practice match.

Second, we got into them and, surprise surprise the looked rattled for the last 20 minutes of the game. At the end, I couldn't see much of a difference in the two teams and Reading could have nicked it.

ALF's handball was laughable but, fcuk it, we've had so much bad luck this season I would have taken it.

I think Jem's and Kebe's return has given the manager a more balanced team and at least we look capable of defending. We may not survive this season but I think we have the basis to build upon in the January transfer window and mount a credible bid for Premiership status in 2014.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Pandoras Box » 27 Dec 2012 20:04

Leigerwood is a tryer, However he gave the ball away far too cheaply and far too often. No point playing a ball winning midfielder if they win the ball and give it back.

Ball winning midfielder.... Leigertwood?

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Mike Hunt
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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Mike Hunt » 27 Dec 2012 20:14

Pandoras Box
Leigerwood is a tryer, However he gave the ball away far too cheaply and far too often. No point playing a ball winning midfielder if they win the ball and give it back.

Ball winning midfielder.... Leigertwood?

Yeah, and then he gives it away.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Pandoras Box » 27 Dec 2012 20:18

The only ball he might win is second prize in the Golden Gamble


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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Millsy » 27 Dec 2012 20:20

Tony Le Mesmer I want to put out a big shout for Ian Harte.

Not that he was amazing yesterday (solid 7/10) but for an old timer who had no pace at 25 let alone 35, its incredible that he's dropped down to league 1 level and managed to get all the way back to playing Premier League football so late in his career. He's been slagged off by a lot of people who simply cant see what he brings to the team. I watched him specifically for a fair bit yesterday and at times he could hardly run at all, you need a lot of experince and class to play at this level to make up for that, which is something he has bundles of. Somone just said he cant defend. :lol: He's spent 5mins off the pitch in the last 2 games and look what happened? Shorey may tick more boxes, but somehow we always look better as a team with Harte playing. An absolute Model Pro, which is something you couldnt say about 1 or 2 of our current players who are bizzarly idolised by some sections of our support.


Sorry I can't agree with a big shout out for Harte. Yes a big shout out that he's doing well for his age and for his pace and I applaud him for that but he is WAY it of his depth in defence in the championship let alone the prem. So incredibly slow, our weakest point by a mile, found out within the first two minutes. If teams know he's starting it's easy for them. Yes it's fine when he comes in as a surprise starter and is playing in a shut up shop formation but shorey>>>>>>Harte any day.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by handbags_harris » 27 Dec 2012 20:29

If you still hate Futcher I really enjoyed the game yesterday - a good, tactical battle where we were well set out, had a game plan and everyone stuck to it really well.



I don't agree that we were bad in the 1st half - we just sat back and made sure they didn't have any room to pass around us. Swansea may have had 70% or so of the possession but about 80% of that was with their centre-backs as we just let them have the ball but cut out the easy pass to their playmakers. Basically we played as if we were the away team, but gradually as the game went on Swansea were getting more and more frustrated and we came into the game more and more. As we did BMcD made his subs which helped us get on the front foot more and more.

For me MOTM was a toss up between Pearce (organised the defence well) and Pog, who deserves a lot of credit for a selfless performance up front on his own and was probably subbed as much because of getting a yellow card as for being tired. It's a pity he had a heavy touch when running in toward their goal in the 1st half but that was the only opportunity he had.


Praise the Lord, after 5 pages someone who actually understands what went on yesterday!!

Plenty of people who say that watching Swansea would bore them to tears, well fair enough, but it's not very often a team will sit as deep as we did with two defensive banks of four and five for them to play through. We set up to spoil and deny them space in and around our defensive third and it worked. To set up any differently with more emphasis on attack we would have left gaps for them to exploit, and given the fact we'd lost the previous seven games on the spin it was clear that we set up to spoil and end the run of pointless games. We allowed Swansea to have possession almost at will on the half way line, keeping a disciplined defensive unit, easily snuffing out most of Swansea's attacking threat at the expense of almost all attacking threat from us. Seemed to me early on to be more of a 4-1-4-1 but as the half wore on both Davies and Tiendalli were clearly told to push forward which, with all the possession they had, meant that McAnuff and Kebe were drawn back into the full back position snuffing out almost any chance of a quick counter. Not so much a back six but a necessary 4-3-2-1. And that, in my opinion, is why so much of Swansea's play was "pointless". They simply had no space to be able to open us up so they just kept possession in an attempt to draw us out but we didn't, so it was going to take either a mistake (Gunter :roll: ) or a piece of genius (Michu 5 minutes in, 20 yards out) to open us up. All of that said, Swansea should have led at half time.

Second half, no change in shape, just a simple result of getting in their faces more, meant Davies and Tiendalli were given more defensive duty as we snuffed out their moves much earlier meaning McAnuff and Kebe (and later HRK) were given more ball. Gunter in particular got forward well but Jesus, does he know how to whip a ball in? So many times you see him just loft it in, all too often too close to the keeper. Yes, this led to our best chance but the cross was what Coppell used to call a "butterfly cross", all air and floaty. Apart from that we struggled, but were significantly better defensively, restricting Swansea to just one chance that they should have buried.

I suppose, to sum our performance up, we could be split into two distinct categories - superbly disciplined without the ball, oxf*rd sh*t with it. Until the latter is sorted we're in trouble, as if that really needed saying.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Born 'n Bred Royal » 27 Dec 2012 20:31

For Pog to be mentioned as a possible MOTM is a disgrace, what game were you watching?

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Royal91
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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Royal91 » 27 Dec 2012 20:40

The last two games have been very positive in terms of defensive performances.

Give it a few games and a bit more quality in Jan and the team will pick up points. Yes were probably going down, but McDermott will now continue to use this as year learning stage in his career.

4-5-1 is something we have to stick with now and develop over time. McDermott just needs to get Karacan bombing forward into the box along with Guthrie to carve some more chances out.


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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by pea » 27 Dec 2012 20:46

Born 'n Bred Royal For Pog to be mentioned as a possible MOTM is a disgrace, what game were you watching?


:roll: he's just written paragraphs explaining it, if you can't understand that reasoning then please stop talking to other human beings until you've evolved a bit more.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Born 'n Bred Royal » 27 Dec 2012 21:00

pea
Born 'n Bred Royal For Pog to be mentioned as a possible MOTM is a disgrace, what game were you watching?


:roll: he's just written paragraphs explaining it, if you can't understand that reasoning then please stop talking to other human beings until you've evolved a bit more.


There is no justification for it, I'm open to people having opinions but that one is unjustifiable.

We looked far more dangerous when Alfie came on, we were toothless in the final third before that. Pog was take off because he failed to influence the game at all really, even when he does have the ball at his feet he doesn't look comfortable and when he fluffed at it in the box I was fuming. He did nothing positive in the came as far as I'm concerned and I'm getting sick of watching him start when Le Fondre (although not complete by any means) has far more of an impact within our style of play.

Pog may be more useful if we opted to pass it around on the floor, but he still doesn't look comfortable generally. He's scored one decent header and drew a comedy error from Michel Vorm in 13 appearances. Not good enough. i wouldn't even mind that he doesn't scored much if he created chances, but the fact he has no assists points to the fact that he hasn't...

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Born 'n Bred Royal » 27 Dec 2012 21:01

and yes, I agree he was isolated and didn't get enough support from kebe and McAnuff, but hes had a support striker several times this season and stlll done nothing.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by winchester_royal » 27 Dec 2012 21:05

handbags_harris
If you still hate Futcher I really enjoyed the game yesterday - a good, tactical battle where we were well set out, had a game plan and everyone stuck to it really well.



I don't agree that we were bad in the 1st half - we just sat back and made sure they didn't have any room to pass around us. Swansea may have had 70% or so of the possession but about 80% of that was with their centre-backs as we just let them have the ball but cut out the easy pass to their playmakers. Basically we played as if we were the away team, but gradually as the game went on Swansea were getting more and more frustrated and we came into the game more and more. As we did BMcD made his subs which helped us get on the front foot more and more.

For me MOTM was a toss up between Pearce (organised the defence well) and Pog, who deserves a lot of credit for a selfless performance up front on his own and was probably subbed as much because of getting a yellow card as for being tired. It's a pity he had a heavy touch when running in toward their goal in the 1st half but that was the only opportunity he had.


Praise the Lord, after 5 pages someone who actually understands what went on yesterday!!

Plenty of people who say that watching Swansea would bore them to tears, well fair enough, but it's not very often a team will sit as deep as we did with two defensive banks of four and five for them to play through. We set up to spoil and deny them space in and around our defensive third and it worked. To set up any differently with more emphasis on attack we would have left gaps for them to exploit, and given the fact we'd lost the previous seven games on the spin it was clear that we set up to spoil and end the run of pointless games. We allowed Swansea to have possession almost at will on the half way line, keeping a disciplined defensive unit, easily snuffing out most of Swansea's attacking threat at the expense of almost all attacking threat from us. Seemed to me early on to be more of a 4-1-4-1 but as the half wore on both Davies and Tiendalli were clearly told to push forward which, with all the possession they had, meant that McAnuff and Kebe were drawn back into the full back position snuffing out almost any chance of a quick counter. Not so much a back six but a necessary 4-3-2-1. And that, in my opinion, is why so much of Swansea's play was "pointless". They simply had no space to be able to open us up so they just kept possession in an attempt to draw us out but we didn't, so it was going to take either a mistake (Gunter :roll: ) or a piece of genius (Michu 5 minutes in, 20 yards out) to open us up. All of that said, Swansea should have led at half time.

Second half, no change in shape, just a simple result of getting in their faces more, meant Davies and Tiendalli were given more defensive duty as we snuffed out their moves much earlier meaning McAnuff and Kebe (and later HRK) were given more ball. Gunter in particular got forward well but Jesus, does he know how to whip a ball in? So many times you see him just loft it in, all too often too close to the keeper. Yes, this led to our best chance but the cross was what Coppell used to call a "butterfly cross", all air and floaty. Apart from that we struggled, but were significantly better defensively, restricting Swansea to just one chance that they should have buried.

I suppose, to sum our performance up, we could be split into two distinct categories - superbly disciplined without the ball, oxf*rd sh*t with it. Until the latter is sorted we're in trouble, as if that really needed saying.


That's all very well and good, but games like this are ones that we really do need to be trying to get 3 points from if we have any designs on beating the drop.

Never did we look like winning the game, ALF's volley aside we didn't get close to troubling the Swansea goal, and relying on the odd set-piece just won't cut it at any level.

I understand the reasoning behind the tactics we employed yesterday but sure as hell don't agree with then. Yes we should have played this system away from home earlier in the season, but that's not an excuse to go playing it in an almost must win home game half through a season when we only have 9 points.

And those who say the tactics worked a treat, I'd argue that Swansea had at least 2 golden opportunities to score so it's not like we shut them out completely.

Saying all that....this squad is by far the weakest in the division so I guess we should be happy with any point we manage to obtain.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Woodcote Royal » 27 Dec 2012 22:02

handbags_harris Praise the Lord, after 5 pages someone who actually understands what went on yesterday!!


Meanwhile, Winchester's post above shows why it will always be lost on the blinkered majority.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Esteban » 28 Dec 2012 07:42

Royal91 McDermott just can't get this balance between attack and defence. The simple reason WE ARE SHIT. The first 11 as a whole are just not good enough.

McDermott still managed to get it wrong. Guthrie is not an attacking mid (Deep lying play maker).

Federici- I've been his biggest critic and I don't like the guy but he was awesome today.

Gunter/Cummings Good champ players and that's it.

Harte- Too slow we need two new full backs. All they do is chip it down the channels. (maybe because the CM's are not showing for them).

McAnuff and L,wood again SHIT. I HOPE TO GOD THEY ARE NOT WITH US NEXT YEAR.

Jimmy never wants to take on a man and is probably the most frustrating player in the world.

Karacan. Awesome badly missed him. Maybe were that shit but it looks like he's improved technically.

Pearce. Awesome McDermott is a oxf*rd moron for not playing him. Controlled and organised the defence and showed some PASSION. AZ Give him what he wants. He might win a second Championship title.

Guthrie. Wasn't in the first half. 2nd half showed some grit, fight, neat passing and solid crossing. (Anyone who disagrees can piss off)

Pog. He shows some bite in tackles and willingness to get the ball. Unfortunately hes too slow. Problem is hes not a TARGET man. Banging balls into his head will NEVER work.

Alf. Should be starting. Solid finisher, pretty nippy and great movement.

Our problems are the full backs.
Off the ball movement (Never create space for each other)
Crossing is just shit all the time.


:lol:

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by If you still hate Futcher » 28 Dec 2012 14:05

winchester_royal That's all very well and good, but games like this are ones that we really do need to be trying to get 3 points from if we have any designs on beating the drop.


I'd actually counter that by saying that against a team like Swansea that was the perfect formation and tactics and that after the run we've been on it was a game we needed to make absolutely sure we didn't lose rather than risk everything going all out for a win. In fact at the end when we were on top I thought we were a bit rash only leaving one player back for freekicks and corners, given the pace Swansea can break with.

And he Yes we should have played this system away from home earlier in the season, but that's not an excuse to go all out for a win and risk get getting torn apart a-la the 1st half against Arsenal


Corrected

he also And those who say the tactics worked a treat, I'd argue that Swansea had at least 2 golden opportunities to score so it's not like we shut them out completely.


No matter how well you defend, over 90 minutes there is almost guaranteed to be one or 2 chances for the opposition, of those 2 one was a Michu's flick over the bar from a mistake (yes we were lucky there) and the other was Dyer's header (another mistake allowed them to get the cross in) note it was Dyer in at centre forward and not Michu because he'd dropped deaper and deaper as the game went on.

If we'd gone 442, Ki and Britton would've been free to drop off and get the ball from the centrebacks which would've drawn us out and Michu would have been in the space between our CBs and CMs, where he would've been far more effective, rather than dropping deaper to try to get into the game.

he finally Saying all that....this squad is by far the weakest in the division so I guess we should be happy with any point we manage to obtain.


That and they were probably all demoralised going into the game and still finding their feet with the formation. IMHO we need to stick with it and the attacking side will come, especially if we can get a couple of quality signings in January.

Sorry Winchester - I know it seems like I'm attacking you and I really don't mean to but I thought BMcD got it spot on and it was the 1st game I've seen this season where I didn't think the opposition could score at any moment

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