SIGNED - Hope Akpan

[winchester_royal]

We can moan all we like, but signing good players in our position is hard. We're using our PL status and resources to ensure that if the worst does happen, which it probably will, we'll have an excellent squad with which to bounce back up.

The likes of Leigertwood, Gunter, McAnuff, Gorkss, Hunt and Federici will be useful players next season, I expect Alf to be truly prolific after his experiences this year. HRK, Pearce (if we keep him), Morrisson, McCarthy, McCleary, Kebe and Karacan will have all gained a lot from this season and will be better players than the ones who went up. And we have the resources to keep all or sell at high prices and replace. And we'll have bright youngsters to challenge them.

Even if we lose Pog, Guthrie and Carrico (which may not happen after 6 months), I expect us to be a fearsome team in the Championship for 13/14 and come back up a side capable of holding our own at this level more, without breaking the bank. We're potentially only 5/6 years behind West Brom; keep looking at the big picture and don't lose sight of that.

The last relegation was with a team being broken up and on decline. I honestly think this squad is still young, hungry and being built and I don't see a relegation stopping that as there are no stand out candidates for the PL vultures to ensnare away from us.

Excellent post and echoes my thoughts entirely.

I believe that being in the PL is an unexpected windfall to AZ & co, when hands were shaken on the deal to buy the club we were a Championship club who didn't (really) look as if it was going to get promoted. Although expectations from supporters such as us have changed, i.e. we desperately want to remain in the PL, I don't believe that the business plan that was in already place prior to us being promoted will have changed significantly, certainly not enough to keep us in the PL, look it as a kind of 'Take the money & run' scenario.

The money gained from the PL is a lot of dough yes, and although it is a major bonus we can't treat it with a Euro-Millions lottery winner mentality, i.e. run out and buy a Ferrari, a yacht and a big flash pad on the south coast of wherever... which translates in footballing terms to buying big name marquee payers who basically bleed the club dry... Pompey anyone?

We will be -as stated above- be a team that will tear up the championship next season, and although many on here and others like to use the Stoke model as a comparison, I agree with the poster above that WBA is a better model to emulate, but I disagree that we are as far as 5/6 years behind them - 3 possibly.

Keep the faith...

You've managed to top an excellent post from rhroyal there. Spot on.

As long as we stick to a long term strategy; in 10 years time we should be in a very good position as a club.

[Wimb]

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

West Brom is a noble aim and a good strategy long-term but it's far easier to stay in the Premier League and build from there, rather than getting relegated and competing with a dozen other clubs all fighting for 3 spots.

[Avon Royal]

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

Exactly this.

The whole "we'll just go down and rebuild" approach has just as much risk as the "invest to stay up" approach.

[winchester_royal]

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

West Brom is a noble aim and a good strategy long-term but it's far easier to stay in the Premier League and build from there, rather than getting relegated and competing with a dozen other clubs all fighting for 3 spots.

'far easier' to stay in the Premier League than get promoted from the Championship?

I have to disagree, Brian has shown what he can do in the Championship working with little money and having his team ripped apart each summer. I look forward to seeing what he'll be able to do with a settled side that has progressively added quality over the previous 3 windows.

1 step back to take 2 step forwards is the appropriate cliche at this moment in time IMO.

Ideally we'll stay up this season but if we do go down (as would have been likely at the start of the season regardless of our transfer activity) at least we know that the long term vision has not been compromised, and that we will be in a good position to mount a serious promotion challenge.

[melonhead]

We can moan all we like, but signing good players in our position is hard. We're using our PL status and resources to ensure that if the worst does happen, which it probably will, we'll have an excellent squad with which to bounce back up.

The likes of Leigertwood, Gunter, McAnuff, Gorkss, Hunt and Federici will be useful players next season, I expect Alf to be truly prolific after his experiences this year. HRK, Pearce (if we keep him), Morrisson, McCarthy, McCleary, Kebe and Karacan will have all gained a lot from this season and will be better players than the ones who went up. And we have the resources to keep all or sell at high prices and replace. And we'll have bright youngsters to challenge them.

Even if we lose Pog, Guthrie and Carrico (which may not happen after 6 months), I expect us to be a fearsome team in the Championship for 13/14 and come back up a side capable of holding our own at this level more, without breaking the bank. We're potentially only 5/6 years behind West Brom; keep looking at the big picture and don't lose sight of that.

The last relegation was with a team being broken up and on decline. I honestly think this squad is still young, hungry and being built and I don't see a relegation stopping that as there are no stand out candidates for the PL vultures to ensnare away from us.

An excellent post from someone whose vision is clearly light years ahead of those who chose to post so many embarrassingly blinkered contributions above.

As someone who doesn't think we are dead and buried just yet, if relegation means being able to read more of this after all the glory hunting ignorance has sailed into the sunset, I think I could live with it

The worse case scenario was always to take our huge 5 season windfall and use it to build for a stronger future in the way clubs like WBA have done before us.

To many of us who will be back next season regardless, this is what it's all about.........................growing the club long term so that one day we can compete on equal terms with most of the top flight. We will never achieve this by trying to out spend those with greater resources.

Another +1 from me also. Top post

+ 1 for the sanity and realism

[melonhead]

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

West Brom is a noble aim and a good strategy long-term but it's far easier to stay in the Premier League and build from there, rather than getting relegated and competing with a dozen other clubs all fighting for 3 spots.

with unlimited money behind us, i would agree.....

[melonhead]

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

Exactly this.

The whole "we'll just go down and rebuild" approach has just as much risk as the "invest to stay up" approach.

no. it. doesnt

[Wimb]

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

West Brom is a noble aim and a good strategy long-term but it's far easier to stay in the Premier League and build from there, rather than getting relegated and competing with a dozen other clubs all fighting for 3 spots.

'far easier' to stay in the Premier League than get promoted from the Championship?

I have to disagree, Brian has shown what he can do in the Championship working with little money and having his team ripped apart each summer. I look forward to seeing what he'll be able to do with a settled side that has progressively added quality over the previous 3 windows.

1 step back to take 2 step forwards is the appropriate cliche at this moment in time IMO.

Ideally we'll stay up this season but if we do go down (as would have been likely at the start of the season regardless of our transfer activity) at least we know that the long term vision has not been compromised, and that we will be in a good position to mount a serious promotion challenge.

Again I take the point but I'll reiterate my own and ask that If it's so easy to do why do so few clubs manage to bounce back?

I agree that Brian has had a good record at Championship level under difficult circumstances but there's only been 1 coach in recent memory who's managed promotion twice from the second tier with the same club and that's Bryan Robson. Again I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, however I'd say it's far easier to finish 17th by earning 36 points than it is to finish in the top two with 80+ points in the Championship.

I very much hope he's able to buck the trend but I think it's dangerous to just assume that following relegation we'd stroll back. There's no telling how players will cope with relegation, who will stay, who will get sold, and who'll be able to perform.

Remember that even with our financial clout, if players want out then no money will be able to keep them. If McCarthy, Pearce, Morrison, Karacan, Kebe and Le Fondre all went, he'd once again be building from the ground up. Sure you'd still have McAnuff, Leigertwood, Gorkss etc, but would the same hunger remain, 2 years from the last promotion and would Gunter, Mariappa etc have the same loyalty and drive given that they've only been in what's looked a fairly divided dressing room this season?

All ifs, buts and maybes but I'd personally prefer to not take a step back if we possibly can.

[BR2]

I like the idea that if (when?) we get relegated we will build for an immediate return with lessons learned-we have shown this season that we learned f*** all from the last time we got promoted so why should we get it right the next time?
Having said that,football fans are full of optimism-that's why fans stay supporting clubs in the hope that one day there will be something else better than the dross that most fans of most clubs watch each week.

As for this signing let us wish the lad well as with any other signings and we won't know for a while whether we have got the new Sidwell or the new Fae.
It now looks as though the club realises that the Academy has recently been a failure and something radical has to be done about it.
Here we are signing what should have come through our own Academy to bridge the gap that has existed since those that are now around 23 came through the system,i.e the Pearce,HRK,McCarthy and even Church era.
Where are all the 19,20,21 year-olds pressing for a first team place?
I think it is this issue which needs addressing and the problem is highlighted by the relative failure (at enormous expense) of our academy and it is why the club is now having to spend significant sums as gambles on unproven players from elsewhere.

One other thing-Brian keep your trap shut,you always have to backtrack on most things that you say including the stuff one day about players ready to go straight into the side and then the next about how difficult it is for little old Reading to get players etc.etc.
Part of a manager's skill is in being able to sell the club to potential joiners-we did it with Pog so how come Huddlestone looks more likely to go to Fulham than to us (according to the Press)?.
Obviously there may well be other factors involved there but it does look as though the club won't go that extra million when it comes to the likes of Zaha,Lescott and Cahill (even the much admired WBA stretched to over £6 million for a little Irish lad) but if you want to stay in the Premier League it does look as though that level of spending is needed now and again to make the difference.

[Wimb]

I'm not sure the Academy has been a failure it's more that our recent successes have meant far less opportunities have arisen for these players to get experience in our first team.

If we hadn't been promoted I'm sure players like Jordan Obita and Dominic Samuel would have been playing far more, while the very fact you've got decent young players like McCarthy, Pearce, HRK, Karacan etc means that what's the point in blooding youngsters for those positions?

[melonhead]

we have shown this season that we learned f*** all from the last time we got promoted so why should we get it right the next time?

learning lessons is all very well, but if the money isnt really there to implement those lessons, what are you supposed to do about it.

One other thing-Brian keep your trap shut,you always have to backtrack on most things that you say including the stuff one day about players ready to go straight into the side and then the next about how difficult it is for little old Reading to get players etc.etc.

your having a go at him for the way you interpreted what he said.
at no point reading that first st5atement did i ever think- we would only be going for prem players, or that going for them meant we would definitely get them, due to our position.

[winchester_royal]

Again I take the point but I'll reiterate my own and ask that If it's so easy to do why do so few clubs manage to bounce back?

Good question, I'd argue it's because many clubs do take the short term view in doing all they can to survive, and hence are in the weaker position of not having planned for the eventuality of the championship. Therefore financially they may be under pressure to sell players, or have a squad full of big timers who believe themselves to be too good for the level.

I agree that Brian has had a good record at Championship level under difficult circumstances but there's only been 1 coach in recent memory who's managed promotion twice from the second tier with the same club and that's Bryan Robson. Again I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, however I'd say it's far easier to finish 17th by earning 36 points than it is to finish in the top two with 80+ points in the Championship.

I'm afraid I can't agree with that last point. Especially with this squad of players. Every game in the premiership is against a quality team, with players better than the ones we have. Each game is a struggle, and it will take an excellent performance combined with a bit of luck in each of the remaining games for us to get close to 36 points. We got to around the 90 point mark last season despite having a shocking start and a very average squad. We're in a much better position to compete from the start next year, and with a manager who's proved very successful in the league over 3 seasons along with a chairman that is willing to give him enough money to keep his original squad and add a couple of new players (as well as blooding a few of the excellent youngsters we have) I can see us coming straight back up.

I very much hope he's able to buck the trend but I think it's dangerous to just assume that following relegation we'd stroll back. There's no telling how players will cope with relegation, who will stay, who will get sold, and who'll be able to perform.

I wouldn't say any of us are assuming we'll come back up, it will take a lot of careful planning and management to ensure we're in the best position to. However I am certainly of the belief that to secure our status in the long run we may well be better off taking a couple of years in the championship and building a young, talented squad that will compete in the Premiership (ala Coppell's 106 team) rather than hanging on in the league for a couple of years and then going down with a number of older players on big money. Obviously I'm taking the extreme view there, and if we stay up this season we could end up building something special. But it won't be as easy, and the money we'd need to invest to give us a good chance of survival would put us at a significant risk if we went down. Also, the only players likely to want to come to us this January with premier league experience will be the older ones on their decline. Not exactly players that we're going to be able to build around over the next 5 years

Remember that even with our financial clout, if players want out then no money will be able to keep them. If McCarthy, Pearce, Morrison, Karacan, Kebe and Le Fondre all went, he'd once again be building from the ground up. Sure you'd still have McAnuff, Leigertwood, Gorkss etc, but would the same hunger remain, 2 years from the last promotion and would Gunter, Mariappa etc have the same loyalty and drive given that they've only been in what's looked a fairly divided dressing room this season?

All ifs, buts and maybes but I'd personally prefer to not take a step back if we possibly can.

The only players I can see PL clubs coming in for if we went down are Karacan and Pearce. Possibly Mariappa. I don't think we have much to worry about in that respect. And if we do have to sell them due to them wanting out at least it will be on a sound financial footing, giving us the capability to invest all of the money back into the team.

I do understand the frustration of many. It may look like a missed opportunity this season. I do however believe the club has a long term vision and yes, ideally they'd like to stay up this season, and I believe they have done all they can to make us competitive without derailing that vision.

[cmonurz]

The West Brom approach was under-pinned by selling some key players like Davies and Koumas for a lot of money, and then reinvesting all of it, plus a bit more, in the playing squad (I think they spent £15m+ transfer fees in each of their two seasons back in the Championship, on 5 or 6 players each time).

Can't see how that works for Reading given:

- we won't be selling two or three players for millions each (Davies went for £8m iirc)
- if we did there is no evidence at this stage that money would be reinvested wholly in the playing squad
- at this stage there is no evidence that TSI are prepared to make that level of additional investment on top of transfer fees in.

It's welcome that we appear to be building a decent Championship squad - although we'll have to suffer some players leaving yet. But I've not seen any indication we can 'do a West Brom', it's a different model.

[The Rouge]

Remember the Eddy Grant number "Gimme hope, Jo'anna"...

Give us Hope, McDermott
Hope, McDermott
Give us Hope, McDermott
Before the game it ends
Give us Hope, McDermott
Hope, McDermott
Hope before the game it ends

Ahh great/bad minds etc..

[melonhead]

- we won't be selling two or three players for millions each (Davies went for £8m iirc)
- if we did there is no evidence at this stage that money would be reinvested wholly in the playing squad
- at this stage there is no evidence that TSI are prepared to make that level of additional investment on top of transfer fees in.

i see the fact that the bloke has happily thrown away millions of his own money every window on transfers since hes been here(including the one where he didnt even own the club yet) over and above any transfer fees coming in, as clear and strong evidence he would happily invest money that we make that doesnt come straight out of his and his investors pockets in the same way.

[robinsfriday]

More of an opportunist signing this one and could prove to be a rough diamond. Would be naive to judge each signing as a potential starter. Have to build for the future as well as the present.

[cmonurz]

Fair enough. I'll believe it when I see it (reinvestment of transfer fees in), but as I said it's to an extent a moot point as we don't exactly have multi-millions in assets like Davies and Koumas that we might sell if we go down.

Which takes us to point 3, and whilst AZ has put his hand in his pocket to fund Gunter and Mariappa, West Brom spent £15m+ on transfer fees in each of those two seasons, and I can't imagine we'll see that level of investment at Reading.

[BR2]

- we won't be selling two or three players for millions each (Davies went for £8m iirc)
- if we did there is no evidence at this stage that money would be reinvested wholly in the playing squad
- at this stage there is no evidence that TSI are prepared to make that level of additional investment on top of transfer fees in.

i see the fact that the bloke has happily thrown away millions of his own money every window on transfers since hes been here(including the one where he didnt even own the club yet) over and above any transfer fees coming in, as clear and strong evidence he would happily invest money that we make that doesnt come straight out of his and his investors pockets in the same way.

You do post some cobblers at times (or most of the time) as unpaid spokesperson for RFC.
"Happily thrown away millions of his own money".
He hasn't thrown money away,he has invested a few million quid in a business where within a year or so he will receive many millions for this year's TV money plus a number of years' very handy parachute payments.
What many of us find odd is that he appears not to be prepared to invest some more with the aim of not just getting parachute payments but the masses more that will arise if we were to stay up.

[melonhead]

Fair enough. I'll believe it when I see it (reinvestment of transfer fees in), but as I said it's to an extent a moot point as we don't exactly have multi-millions in assets like Davies and Koumas that we might sell if we go down.

Which takes us to point 3, and whilst AZ has put his hand in his pocket to fund Gunter and Mariappa, West Brom spent £15m+ on transfer fees in each of those two seasons, and I can't imagine we'll see that level of investment at Reading.

thats not point 3 as it was in the quote
and is that 15 million net?

[melonhead]

- we won't be selling two or three players for millions each (Davies went for £8m iirc)
- if we did there is no evidence at this stage that money would be reinvested wholly in the playing squad
- at this stage there is no evidence that TSI are prepared to make that level of additional investment on top of transfer fees in.

i see the fact that the bloke has happily thrown away millions of his own money every window on transfers since hes been here(including the one where he didnt even own the club yet) over and above any transfer fees coming in, as clear and strong evidence he would happily invest money that we make that doesnt come straight out of his and his investors pockets in the same way.

You do post some cobblers at times (or most of the time) as unpaid spokesperson for RFC.
"Happily thrown away millions of his own money".
He hasn't thrown money away,he has invested a few million quid in a business where within a year or so he will receive many millions for this year's TV money plus a number of years' very handy parachute payments.
What many of us find odd is that he appears not to be prepared to invest some more with the aim of not just getting parachute payments but the masses more that will arise if we were to stay up.

until he turns us into a prem team he has little hope for any real returns on his investment tbf.(unless of course he pockets the parachutes himself and does a runner-which isnt going to happen)
maybe he and his investors dont have/dont want to gamble their money in that way.
maybe the idea of getting the parachute payments and using that to invest in building a side who can get up and stay in the prem seems like a better idea to them

it would if it were my money