TSI - The Promises, Policies & Progress Thread

[Esteban]

I was going to post this on the Hope Akpan thread, until Platypuss told us all off!

Anyway, FWIW:

I appreciate the sentiments but let's not forget how bloody hard the Championship is and how few relegated teams actually manage to bounce back.

Exactly this.

The whole "we'll just go down and rebuild" approach has just as much risk as the "invest to stay up" approach.

It's a different kind of risk though. Adding quality to a Championship squad costs a lot less than adding the necessary quality to PL squad.

Also, imagine the spend required in the summer to keep us up. West Ham and Southampton both had better squads than us to start with and have still had to spend millions on new players. West Ham are comfortably mid-table, but Southampton aren't guaranteed survival and they spent £27m on transfer fees alone. An injury to a couple of key players and they could be right in the smelly stuff. By comparison, we had a squad that would need serious investment to get us to West Ham's level and a not insignificant spend just to get to where Southampton are. The question you have to ask yourself is, would you rather we spend £30m+ to give us a chance, but no guarantee, of surviving the drop; or spend wisely in the hope you stay up, but have the means to mount another challenge should you get relegated.

If we had taken the view that we were going to spend millions on staying up, but failed, then we'd find ourselves in the Championship with a bunch of players we can't afford to keep, plus potential debts. Spend frugally and if you go down, you have a group of players that you can afford to keep, for the most part, plus parachute money to allow you to add to that squad, giving you a much better chance of bouncing back.

There's not an easy answer. You can either go slowly as WBA have or go all in as Stoke have. But I would argue that the Stoke model (for want of a better name) has more financial risk attached to it than the WBA model. With the WBA model, the risk is you don't go back up straight away and lose some of your fan base. That is an easier pill to swallow than having to flog all of your best players to plug gaps, as Reading did when we failed to go back up the season after we went down and the next three seasons after that.

TSI don't have massive reserves of money to dip into and that was made very clear to us all when they took over the club. The more frugal way of running the club has been our past and is our foreseeable future. Like it or not, that's something we'll all have to get used to.

[melonhead]

Oh, and you do realise that Southampton have spent around £28m since promotion don't you? Maybe the Bale/Ox money wasn't all used to "run the club" after all......

i believe southampton are owned by seriously rich people, who dont care about blowing 30 million on the gamble of staying up

[Esteban]

BUT THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT!!!!!!

Two options:

Invest in the team, stay up, make a profit, don't need to sell players

Or

Try to do things on the cheap, get relegated, run at a loss in the Championship, have to sell players.

Oh, and you do realise that Southampton have spent around £28m since promotion don't you? Maybe the Bale/Ox money wasn't all used to "run the club" after all......

And yes, of course there is no guarantee that spending = survival, but all businesses need to take calculated risks in order to grow.

Do you guys really think you know better than the rest of the footballing world?

Since when did staying in the PL guarantee you a profit? If it did, every businessman out there would be clambering to buy a football club.

Your option 1 should read: Invest heavily in the side, hope to stay up, avoid relegation, try hard to hold on to your best players, invest heavily again, cross your fingers that you're going to stay up again, etc, etc.

[melonhead]

xactly it only guarantees us a profit cos we dont spend much


& pretty much everyone else in th eprem is in huge debt aint they?

[Avon Royal]

the above statement that looking only at spending, without taking into account player sales is a bit silly when assessing transfer budgets is absolutely right as seen in the example i gave in the quote.

Round and round you go

I agree, looking at transfer spending without considering transfer income for other clubs is "silly". So when we compare our transfer spending we also need to take into account our transfer income.

As much as you'd like to believe otherwise, we are not a special case when it comes to having running costs.

I'll await your trademark insults.............

[melonhead]

dunno what your even arguing about tbf

you said saints spent a fortune.
so what. maybe they can afford it, maybe they dont mind gambling a fortune to be a few points and places better off than us.
not sure what thats got to do with Reading.

you said norwich spent 17 million since they came back up two seasons ago
weve spent not far off that in the same period in trying to come back up since AZ took over, and norwich have had two seasons in the prem to finance it, and we havent




we run at a loss in the championship, and try not to build up massive debts while doing so.
we are owned by a consortium of investors who dont want to gamble vast sums of money, but want to build a business sensibly.

you only need to look at the accounts, and various assessments of our finances from the club, and independant sources over the last ten years to see where all the money has gone.

[melonhead]

So when we compare our transfer spending we also need to take into account our transfer income.

ok.

so since AZ has taken over, who have we sold, for what money?
and how much have we spent on new players signing on fees and wages?

[Avon Royal]

Apparently the Reading Way existed before Anton took over........

Anyway, I get the feeling we're both bored now

[LoyalRoyalFan]

Well let's see what it is after this window, although to be honest I think it's too late now and we'd be better saving the money for the Championship next year.

Reading have spent nearly £7m since the start of the season.

[melonhead]

is that including POG and guthrie and shoreys and mclearys signing on fees?

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Ignore the transfer fees! It's wages that count!

[melonhead]

but id imagine Saints/QPR etc will have spent more money on wages than us too, so....

[melonhead]

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/readingfc/s/2126882_steve_coppell_i_expected_reading_fc_to_spend_big

brians mate coppells quotes about how he expected us to spend much bigger, was surprised we didnt, and thinks it was a mistake
on bbcrb he apparently said he was aware it was case of pot/kettle etc

[SPARTA]

is that including POG and guthrie and shoreys and mclearys signing on fees?

Almost £7m so far in just transfer fees. Add a few million in both signing on fees and more again for agent fees, and we really have spent a lot this season. Avon wont ever be happy until he's us splash £5m on a donkey like Ade Akinbiyi.

[melonhead]

agreed

[Avon Royal]

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/readingfc/s/2126882_steve_coppell_i_expected_reading_fc_to_spend_big

brians mate coppells quotes about how he expected us to spend much bigger, was surprised we didnt, and thinks it was a mistake
on bbcrb he apparently said he was aware it was case of pot/kettle etc

Presumably Coppell now has to piss off and support Chelsea.........

[Avon Royal]

Avon wont ever be happy until he's us splash £5m on a donkey like Ade Akinbiyi.

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said......

Anyway, Coppell agrees with me so you can shove it quite frankly!

[Royal Rother]

Anybody else hear Adrian Chiles' comments on BBCRB tonight?

FWIW he wholly supports the way Reading are doing things, which is the same as WBA did when facing relegation. Hold the nerve, don't spend big and get ready to bounce back. Spending big in Jan when in the zone is the worst possible thing to do. Chiles was quoting the advice of the Baggies' Chairman.

[SPARTA]

Anybody else hear Adrian Chiles' comments on BBCRB tonight?

FWIW he wholly supports the way Reading are doing things, which is the same as WBA did when facing relegation. Hold the nerve, don't spend big and get ready to bounce back. Spending big in Jan when in the zone is the worst possible thing to do. Chiles was quoting the advice of the Baggies' Chairman.

I couldn't agree more!

We went up with a very weak squad. Without a complete overhaul, and spending something like £40m plus wages that would have risked crippling the club, we have done the best we can afford to do whilst still remaining sensible, yet spending massively more than we could ever have imagined under Sir John Madejski's ownership.

This club, if it goes down, will go down with a much stronger side, and then the pressure is on BM to get it right at the first attempt and get us back up. If he can do that, with more summer investment, and next January, we will be much better equipped for trying to survive in this league. I really don't believe relegation is that bad a thing. Obviously I'd love us to beat the odds this season, but as long as we continue to improve the squad as we are doing, then we will get it right in time.

I'm quite happy being the next Bolton and WBA, in being a yo-yo club. We could only have dreamt of that a few years ago!

[urz13]

Anybody else hear Adrian Chiles' comments on BBCRB tonight?

FWIW he wholly supports the way Reading are doing things, which is the same as WBA did when facing relegation. Hold the nerve, don't spend big and get ready to bounce back. Spending big in Jan when in the zone is the worst possible thing to do. Chiles was quoting the advice of the Baggies' Chairman.

This is exactly how I feel. I really do think that the current squad can keep us up, our home form has been alright, there's lots of winnable games coming up and we might get a couple of points away. I wouldn't want us to spend £10m+ this window and then be stuck with a load of expensive buys if we're relegated. Sensible, experienced signings are perfect IMO. I would love Sidwell and that's it tbh.